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Post by Braced4Impact on Jan 11, 2023 12:56:54 GMT -5
So, I've been coming to PD for a good while now (with breaks in between,) since at least 2009/2010. I don't know if it's because there are more options for social media than there were back in those days, or if it's something else, but I've noticed a steady decline in the activity of the board. The place used to be humming with numerous, diverse posts every day. Perhaps that's part of the problem, where most questions have already been asked and a dev or PWD simply needs to search the archives for their answers, maybe it's because there's a skew of more PWDs than devs in ratios that are higher than they were in the past, or maybe because some of the more dynamic posters have moved on or passed away. But I definitely feel like it doesn't have the same energy as it did in the past. That's okay, too. There are new faces, new ideas, new topics, which is a good thing. Perhaps some big controversies or fights in the past have broken things up. I dunno. I mean, I'm a PWD and we're privileged to be invited in on what should be primarily a dev site. It's good that we can interact with devs and form relations, expel myths and stereotypes, and sate curiosities on both sides. There have always been thirsty PWDs from when I first joined, that's not changed, but I feel like with a lot of the old-timers moving on or at least not participating as much, there just seems to be a trickle of posts rather than a flurry. Maybe devs are more comfortable in their skin these days than they were a decade ago. I dunno. What are your thoughts? Again, I'm not trying to glorify members of the past or bash new members, everyone has a role to contribute. Just curious.
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Post by ayla on Jan 11, 2023 13:18:13 GMT -5
I'm curious as well. It has been interesting to follow the ups and downs of this space. Although I'm not an old timer per se, I was a lurker long before I was a poster, and PD was definitely the very first source of dev positivity I ever found (so it will always have a special place in my heart). I think it's fascinating that this platform has existed since before social media as we know it. I think that the changing online world may have impacted PD in a few ways:
1. People are so much more conscious of branding and presenting themselves online nowadays. In a way it's like comparing the early seasons of reality TV with modern content. 2. There is a general awareness that it's very hard to achieve true "anonymity" online. 3. Much of internet discourse has become quick and casual -- comments, likes, captions on photos -- rather than long form paragraphs. 4. Recently, there has been a trend towards more ephemeral social media like Reels and Snaps that disappear after 24 hours. I know I used to post regular updates on Instagram but haven't added anything new to my "permanent" profile in maybe 2-3 years. Nowadays I'd be more likely to put it in a Story instead. It's sort of cringeworthy to read FB or Insta posts from 10 years ago which were so much more off-the-cuff. Here's what I'm eating right now! Here's a silly meme I laughed at today! I think the fact that our conversations here are public, "permanent," and more long form all contribute to being daunting for newer users. 5. I think, personally, that people are not in the habit of actually thinking deeply about things and sharing their original thoughts. We live in a culture of retweets and likes and memes and quotes and emoji reacts. Lots of consumption, very little contribution, on most platforms.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Jan 11, 2023 13:44:57 GMT -5
I'm curious as well. It has been interesting to follow the ups and downs of this space. Although I'm not an old timer per se, I was a lurker long before I was a poster, and PD was definitely the very first source of dev positivity I ever found (so it will always have a special place in my heart). I think it's fascinating that this platform has existed since before social media as we know it. I think that the changing online world may have impacted PD in a few ways: 1. People are so much more conscious of branding and presenting themselves online nowadays. In a way it's like comparing the early seasons of reality TV with modern content. 2. There is a general awareness that it's very hard to achieve true "anonymity" online. 3. Much of internet discourse has become quick and casual -- comments, likes, captions on photos -- rather than long form paragraphs. 4. Recently, there has been a trend towards more ephemeral social media like Reels and Snaps that disappear after 24 hours. I know I used to post regular updates on Instagram but haven't added anything new to my "permanent" profile in maybe 2-3 years. Nowadays I'd be more likely to put it in a Story instead. It's sort of cringeworthy to read FB or Insta posts from 10 years ago which were so much more off-the-cuff. Here's what I'm eating right now! Here's a silly meme I laughed at today! I think the fact that our conversations here are public, "permanent," and more long form all contribute to being daunting for newer users. 5. I think, personally, that people are not in the habit of actually thinking deeply about things and sharing their original thoughts. We live in a culture of retweets and likes and memes and quotes and emoji reacts. Lots of consumption, very little contribution, on most platforms. Thanks again, Ayla. Good observations, and probably a lot of the source of it all. It does make me sad, because PD was one of my "must check" spots every day to see what new posts were made, but now I can get away with days, even weeks in between and not miss a ton. I also agree, the TLDR phenomena is a real thing, so perhaps long posts are both too long to write and to read, so in-depth conversations are a bit rarer.
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Post by myrrh on Jan 11, 2023 15:56:40 GMT -5
I don't have much time to spend online these days, and sometimes that leads to long periods of neglecting PD. C’est la vie. But I do know that when I am more engaged, it's about the people as much as the topics. If I wanted to shout into the void, I'd post comments on YouTube videos. Here, I'm interacting with humans who fart and have opinions. That's important. Communities are dependent on their members as well as the infrastructure. I think the structure of a message board is great actually, because it allows for long-running deep conversations as well as flippant little toots. That leaves the first part, members. So, I send a PM to newbies who post interesting introductions... just a little "Hello welcome to the neighborhood! What's your favorite pizza topping?" The idea is to be a friendly face and personalize the board a little bit. Sometimes it leads to a new buddy, which is rad. Sometimes it doesn't, which is fine too. It's possible to demystify the human without disregarding the privacy concerns that have become so important in online spaces.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Jan 11, 2023 16:02:15 GMT -5
Yes... this is me....especially the farting part. Here, I'm interacting with humans who fart and have opinions. That's important.
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Post by Armus on Jan 11, 2023 16:54:48 GMT -5
i joined in 2016, and it wasn't exactly popping back then either. this is an extremely small and niche community to begin with, and forums like this are a relic of the early-mid 00s. what you're feeling is, i imagine, the natural decay of a tiny community using an outdated format.
i was a regular on a fairly popular music forum from like 2003-2009ish, i'm talking hundreds, sometimes thousands of posts a day. that forum still exists now and gets like 10-20 posts a day. it ain't shit anymore largely because forums like this ain't shit anymore. the people that posted their hot takes on forums back in the day are either posting cum jokes on twitter or being annoying on reddit, or in my case both.
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Post by darthoso on Jan 11, 2023 17:38:10 GMT -5
Bring back the crappy/perfect java chat room.
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Post by ayla on Jan 11, 2023 17:53:25 GMT -5
A/S/L ?
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Post by rebeckers84 on Jan 11, 2023 19:02:25 GMT -5
I agree with what has been said and I’ll add 1 thing that is sorta keeping me from doing a ton of posting- the constant arguing/bickering/nastiness towards each other. It’s almost like no one (anywhere, not just here) can have a decent conversation with each other any more without arguing and going straight to nastiness. There have been several times I’ve typed up a whole response with my opinion on something and then I think the aftermath I’m going to have to deal with just because I spoke my mind and I delete it. People don’t understand how to have a difference of opinion anymore and it’s really unfortunate. Again, this is not just here but it definitely keeps me from posting here quite often.
My 2 cents 🙃
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Post by darthoso on Jan 11, 2023 19:57:52 GMT -5
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diablednerd
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by diablednerd on Jan 11, 2023 20:11:53 GMT -5
I agree with what has been said and I’ll add 1 thing that is sorta keeping me from doing a ton of posting- the constant arguing/bickering/nastiness towards each other. It’s almost like no one (anywhere, not just here) can have a decent conversation with each other any more without arguing and going straight to nastiness. There have been several times I’ve typed up a whole response with my opinion on something and then I think the aftermath I’m going to have to deal with just because I spoke my mind and I delete it. People don’t understand how to have a difference of opinion anymore and it’s really unfortunate. Again, this is not just here but it definitely keeps me from posting here quite often. My 2 cents 🙃
People are just overly sensation now and get offended at the drop of a hat.... I blame Trump
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Post by mnquad07 on Jan 11, 2023 20:12:11 GMT -5
well, I'm very new here and I hope this all gets better and not the other way around. The idea of everything here is very appealing/hopeful. so far, so good!
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Post by Dani on Jan 11, 2023 20:27:14 GMT -5
It could be a sign of the times. People want quick and easy, no one wants to make any effort anymore or affiliate with something/someone because tomorrow you may want to be/do something different, keeping all the doors and paths open at all times. I see that a lot in the younger generation; many of them don't have a long attention span anymore. Even on the radio, I just heard a thing that young people will not listen to a song that is longer than like three minutes. That is so sad because some of the most legendary music pieces are definitely longer than three minutes. When I first came to PD, it was the only place for me to learn about myself and meet other people who are dealing with the same things. Since then, so many more avenues as far as social media, have opened up and though, I don't like social media very much at all, it does take away from the appeal and pull that the board had back in the days for me.
As far as signs of the times...I find that over the past years, several things happened or have intensified in the world that created much tension, including the speed and advancement of technology. It seems like almost too much too fast. I find it so sad sometimes to see everyone staring at their phones and not looking up anymore at the world around them, interact with others, talk, engage or observe.
And the choices are endless in any category, from retail to who we can be now. It has its advantages, but I also see a lot of negative side effects. We're dealing with a lot of stuff nowadays, and everyone is trying to keep their head above water; everyone has an opinion and is not afraid to shout it out loud without considering anyone else; everyone feels entitled or that they are right with whatever it is; people are just not considerate and empathetic anymore of others. In my opinion, there is a lot of underlying hate, frustration, and aggression out there.
I know personally, I've felt a deep sadness about the state of the world and what is happening everywhere. I've withdrawn from many people that I just couldn't understand. I really tried, but I couldn't. When our views differed so widely, I tried, but I just can't anymore, especially if that differing opinion comes lined with hate from the other party. I also have a very difficult time nowadays seeing the good things when the bad things are so present and so numerous. It could also simply be that the older I get, the more I think about all these things. When I was younger, I could have cared less. The world has always had it's good and bad, but again, as a young person, I didn't care so much about these things. Nowadays, I think about the future generations, as in my children and maybe grandchildren, and I worry about them.
I've always been a glass-half-empty person, and over the past several years, this has seemingly intensified for me. I try to be positive, but for me personally, it has become difficult.
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Post by devogirl on Jan 11, 2023 21:35:02 GMT -5
So, I've been coming to PD for a good while now (with breaks in between,) since at least 2009/2010.
NOOB! just kidding haha.
I appreciate that you framed this in a positive way but oh man I really hate this kind of post. It's easy to romanticize the past but with this message board all the old posts are just sitting there as a record of how things actually were. The very first time someone posted "This board has changed, it's not how it used to be" was literally six months after the board was started. The complaint at the time was that the membership changed from only devs to PWDs also joining and a lot of people didn't like that.
The board does go through phases of activity, and it's true there has been less posting over time. As Armus said, it's mainly because message boards have been an obsolete platform for a very long time, and people now have different expectations for social media interactions. I wish there were other platforms we could migrate to but so far I haven't found anything comparable. The other reason is that long-time members get tired of rehashing the same discussions. When someone posts "why are you a dev?" or "what do you find attractive and why?" I don't always feel like answering yet again. I'm always grateful when newer members come in to respond.
I think of the board as a river, you can't ever put your foot in the same water twice. I do miss some old members, but people get busy and can't always participate they way they did at a certain point in their lives. Also I humbly suggest if the board seems dramatically different to you, part of what has changed is YOU (not just you personally Braced but all of us).
And lest we view the past with rosy lenses, let's remember that in the early days of the board there was a LOT more trolling and fighting. For a long time anyone could post, and we took a hands-off approach to moderating, so there was a lot of really horrible trolling. We switched to only allowing members to post, but it was not for many years that we had the ability to screen members in even the most basic way. From around 2006-2013 there were frequent huge fights that derailed all conversation and took over the board. I'm very grateful that a lot of that has died down. From my perspective, the board has been a lot more calm then it used to be, we are quicker to shut down trolls, and better at detecting fakers.
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Post by darthoso on Jan 11, 2023 22:15:45 GMT -5
The biggest issue IMO is we aren't great anymore at community building and encouraging potentially new cool people to stick around. We had the crappy but perfect java chat room and a Skype IM group that averaged sometimes 400 messages a day. Both open to whoever was around. New people could talk about whatever there and build connections without needing to think of something profound to say on the boards out of the gates. Most people who joined 2015ish benefited from those interactions and developed very close relationship (at least close enough many of us were facebook friends). A steady flow of new interesting people, convinced to stick around by seeing a cool community, is how you keep things going here. Right now I'm betting we've lost a lot of potentially cool people because they didn't see a place to hang out and weren't able to get comfortable enough to open up. So, I've been coming to PD for a good while now (with breaks in between,) since at least 2009/2010. And lest we view the past with rosy lenses, let's remember that in the early days of the board there was a LOT more trolling and fighting. For a long time anyone could post, and we took a hands-off approach to moderating, so there was a lot of really horrible trolling. We switched to only allowing members to post, but it was not for many years that we had the ability to screen members in even the most basic way. From around 2006-2013 there were frequent huge fights that derailed all conversation and took over the board. I'm very grateful that a lot of that has died down. From my perspective, the board has been a lot more calm then it used to be, we are quicker to shut down trolls, and better at detecting fakers.
The fights amongst the OGs over cursing and "off topic threads" were wild.
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