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Post by wonk on Dec 3, 2010 5:49:07 GMT -5
In one of the chat sessions a few of the ladies suggested some of the guys should read (W)hole, a story of a relationship between a dev and a para.
A couple of the ladies expressed that the feelings and thoughts ofthe main character were unerringly accurate, If this is indeed the case then it was decided it should be essential reading for all wheelers.
As a story it was OK, a fairly light read, 256 pages, i read it in about 3 or 4 hours a few days ago at work, and apart from 3 or 4 pages of waffle in the middle, kept me interested.
However the main reason to read it was to understand the thoughts and feelings of this particular dev. Her internal monologue was very enlightening.
It was a very worthwhile read, and has given me a new understanding and respect for the ladies on here.
It must be understood that this is not a "how to understand a dev" book, and each lady is different, both in their interests and how they deal with being a dev.
I strongly recommend every guy on here reads this, if only to understand what the girl in the story goes through. If this can help with our empathy then all the better.
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Dec 3, 2010 7:39:28 GMT -5
Thanks, wonk. I'm glad you got something out of it.
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Post by Neffie on Dec 3, 2010 14:11:08 GMT -5
Does she lick his foot plate?
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Post by lavly on Dec 3, 2010 14:21:31 GMT -5
hugs wonk x
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Post by Emma on Dec 3, 2010 15:22:46 GMT -5
I'm so glad you read it and took something away from it Wonk. You read it even faster than I did!
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Post by BA on Dec 3, 2010 17:26:31 GMT -5
Thanks for posting about it Wonk. Totally cool that you got something from it.
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Post by wonk on Dec 3, 2010 17:29:58 GMT -5
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Post by wonk on Dec 13, 2010 3:23:24 GMT -5
OK for my 100th post I thought I would revive this thread a bit,
Have any of you guys made the effort to read it? If so what did you think? If not, why Not?
I am really interested to know what the reason for not reading it is? *Are you a dev expert and cant possibly learn anymore? * too broke? * too busy? * don't care?
Oh and BTW marineamp, I know someone in your house has a copy!!!! ;D
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Dec 13, 2010 7:58:11 GMT -5
Thanks, wonk. I don't think I've said how much it means that you read it. It means A LOT.
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Post by E on Dec 13, 2010 8:41:02 GMT -5
OK for my 100th post I thought I would revive this thread a bit, Have any of you guys made the effort to read it? If so what did you think? If not, why Not? I am really interested to know what the reason for not reading it is? *Are you a dev expert and cant possibly learn anymore? * too broke? * too busy? * don't care? Oh and BTW marineamp, I know someone in your house has a copy!!!! ;D Why haven't you read the Bible? *Patronizing excuse 1? *2? *3? It is actually on my book list. Sadly, that list is long. Finishing up A Prayer for Owen Meany right now.
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Dec 13, 2010 11:32:59 GMT -5
OK for my 100th post I thought I would revive this thread a bit, Have any of you guys made the effort to read it? If so what did you think? If not, why Not? I am really interested to know what the reason for not reading it is? *Are you a dev expert and cant possibly learn anymore? * too broke? * too busy? * don't care? Oh and BTW marineamp, I know someone in your house has a copy!!!! ;D Why haven't you read the Bible? *Patronizing excuse 1? *2? *3? It is actually on my book list. Sadly, that list is long. Finishing up A Prayer for Owen Meany right now. Wow, E. Thanks. This helps loads and makes me, personally, feel very valued here. You know I love you and consider you my friend. And I know that you have an understanding and acceptance of us that many don't. I appreciate that. But all wonk was trying to do was encourage the guys to read it, when we're pretty sure that most won't. And whatever the reasons are... for most it won't be the length of their reading list. I'm glad you're reading the classics. You're a very smart guy and work at making the most of your intelligence and do a fab job of that. I know that you're blowing through them at an amazing rate. But, well, whether you meant to or not you just made me feel kinda like shit. Because, while this book may not be a classic (make no mistake, it is definitely NOT) it would go a long way towards helping the guys understand us. Me. It's entirely possible that I'm taking your post too personally. Because this IS an intensely personal topic for me. Wonk's prolly gonna be way less hurt by your post than I was. And I'm puking this little response out right now... maybe I should wait to get some distance or something... but.. That stung, E.
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Post by wonk on Dec 13, 2010 16:00:29 GMT -5
Thanks E
Inigo is right, your response doesn't really effect me. Actually I had expected you to respond, and as always I respect your honesty and candour.
You are correct about my post and the patronising excuses, I probably should have taken a leaf out of your book and told it like it is
Most of the guys on here probably won't read it because, I don't believe they really give a shit! Many just seem to pay lip service to understanding the ladies on here. It really is exactly the same as the attitude that seems prevalent : "Hey why should I make any effort at all, I am a wheeler, you are a dev, so you must want me, you make all the effort come and get me for sex!"
My first posts were aimed at getting the guys to want to read the book for their own reasons. However the main reason everyone should read it, is to show the ladies some support, and to make them feel valued. Whether anyone gets anything at all out of the book, is secondary to the support that a number of ladies will feel.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!!
If the person next to you at work has had breast cancer, invariably you would buy a pink ribbon on pink ribbon day, just to show support, but that requires no effort. What is being asked requires a little effort (not a real lot) I have been a little shocked and saddened by that lack of effort by everyone on here.
Last weekend I was speaking to a lady on here, who was mentally and emotionally drained from spending so much of her time trying to help a guy understand his new girlfriend, and even though it was tough on her, and had opened up wounds and doubts and had pushed all her dev guilt buttons, she had done it, WHY? ... because one of us asked!!!
I haven't been on this site a real long time, but have come to love most of the ladies here. The same cannot be said about the guys, while there are certainly some great guys on here, the majority come across as whiny selfish pricks. When I wrote that sentence I went back and deleted it for fear of offending people, but then put it back in because it is the truth!
The fact that no one seems to have read this book, proves to me how selfish most wheelers on here are. Yeah, yeah, I am sure we will here a myriad of excuses. But the fact remains you guys couldn't be bothered to read it, or have not made it a priority in any way.
This community is much like any relationship in life, you ultimately get out of it what you are prepared to put in.
When I read the book, i had actually felt bad it took me a week to do it from the time I had said I would. When I did read it I was amazed by how appreciative all the ladies were that I had done so; Inigo's early post is an example.
Enough of my rant. BTW E this isn't aimed at you, but at every guy on here!
Please show you care, read just one book!
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Post by E on Dec 13, 2010 18:07:40 GMT -5
Why haven't you read the Bible? *Patronizing excuse 1? *2? *3? It is actually on my book list. Sadly, that list is long. Finishing up A Prayer for Owen Meany right now. Wow, E. Thanks. This helps loads and makes me, personally, feel very valued here. You know I love you and consider you my friend. And I know that you have an understanding and acceptance of us that many don't. I appreciate that. But all wonk was trying to do was encourage the guys to read it, when we're pretty sure that most won't. And whatever the reasons are... for most it won't be the length of their reading list. I'm glad you're reading the classics. You're a very smart guy and work at making the most of your intelligence and do a fab job of that. I know that you're blowing through them at an amazing rate. But, well, whether you meant to or not you just made me feel kinda like sh*t. Because, while this book may not be a classic (make no mistake, it is definitely NOT) it would go a long way towards helping the guys understand us. Me. It's entirely possible that I'm taking your post too personally. Because this IS an intensely personal topic for me. Wonk's prolly gonna be way less hurt by your post than I was. And I'm puking this little response out right now... maybe I should wait to get some distance or something... but.. That stung, E. I'm sorry if it stung you. I didn't appreciate the patronizing tone of his post, that those of us who hadn't yet made the time to read this particular book had erred in some way or were somehow less genuine in our interest/familiarity/whatever with devotees. The implication that there was something wrong with me for having not read it "by now", because I either thought I knew it all or cared less. I found it pretentious. And patronizing. And that annoyed me. And I was a dick. I will read it. I just don't think I should be needled for not having made it my life's top priority.
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Post by BA on Dec 13, 2010 19:14:14 GMT -5
I don't know where to begin. The last time I said anything about guys and 'self-involvement' I got hung out to dry. That was many years ago and I have learned to temper my words with a great deal more care. I hope.
I was once going to have a conversation with Mr. AB about my deepest sexual desires, including my devness. I felt so unsure and threatened with his possible rejection about expressing myself, that I put my feelings in writing and left it in a sealed envelope for him to read. One day went by and the envelope went unopened, then two, three and finally a week.
During the second week the unopened envelope remained on his nightstand, I returned it to my purse. He did not notice it was missing. I brought it into our next marital counseling session, hidden in my bag and proceeded to ask him what he had thought about it. He stammered. "Well, ummm, well".
"I am aware that you didn't read it", said I, and took the still sealed envelope from my purse.
"I didn't know it had a certain time limit! Jesus! I just haven't gotten to it yet. OK???"
My answer very simply was, "No - it is now mine. I am so very sorry, but I do not think I will ever be able to show you what was written here."
He was angry. I hadn't given him enough time.
He had, however, had time to watch Sunday football on the couch for an entire day. That indeed was his priority.
I ran the envelope and it's contents through the shredder in the counselor's office, gutted and realized that there is a huge aspect of my life I can NEVER share with Mr. AB.
I have heard many of you guys express a tinge of anger when you find out that we "supposed devs" have ended up in relationships with AB guys. I mean, what kind of dev denies her own deepest need? What kind of bull is that? Is it just us giving lip-service to our 'fantasy', but when it comes time to settle down, we shy away from the realities of day to day life with you? Sometimes, to our own detriment we tend to think many of you guys are WAY beyond the average lay seeking knob head out there. It sometimes does gut us to find out that not only are you a minority, but that you are truly no different from most of the guys out there! Our hopes for your evolution as human beings is SO much higher than is probably healthy. There are so very few of you. There are even fewer of us.
When someone comes along and actually reads something, as Mal has, and has thought about it and is able to discuss it - it does feel validating. To me at least. It means he wants to understand more and that it's important to him. A priority, in fact.
As women, often our priorities are about others (spouses, b/f's, children). Maybe it is more in our nature to be this way.
There are however, men out there who do think this way and you know what? Disabled or not, they get women who stick.
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Post by Dee Dee on Dec 13, 2010 19:26:48 GMT -5
Wow, E. Thanks. This helps loads and makes me, personally, feel very valued here. You know I love you and consider you my friend. And I know that you have an understanding and acceptance of us that many don't. I appreciate that. But all wonk was trying to do was encourage the guys to read it, when we're pretty sure that most won't. And whatever the reasons are... for most it won't be the length of their reading list. I'm glad you're reading the classics. You're a very smart guy and work at making the most of your intelligence and do a fab job of that. I know that you're blowing through them at an amazing rate. But, well, whether you meant to or not you just made me feel kinda like sh*t. Because, while this book may not be a classic (make no mistake, it is definitely NOT) it would go a long way towards helping the guys understand us. Me. It's entirely possible that I'm taking your post too personally. Because this IS an intensely personal topic for me. Wonk's prolly gonna be way less hurt by your post than I was. And I'm puking this little response out right now... maybe I should wait to get some distance or something... but.. That stung, E. I'm sorry if it stung you. I didn't appreciate the patronizing tone of his post, that those of us who hadn't yet made the time to read this particular book had erred in some way or were somehow less genuine in our interest/familiarity/whatever with devotees. The implication that there was something wrong with me for having not read it "by now", because I either thought I knew it all or cared less. I found it pretentious. And patronizing. And that annoyed me. And I was a dick. I will read it. I just don't think I should be needled for not having made it my life's top priority. I´ve said it before; it´s in the way you say it, E.
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