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Post by E on Nov 5, 2011 23:40:51 GMT -5
The other thread about BIID and such reminded me of a phenomenon/observation/idea I had ages ago.
I believe I have BIID.
I see myself as AB. In my mind, I imagine myself -- the way I look, the way I move -- differently from how I really do. My mental perception of myself does not mesh with my reality. When I'm talking, I'll sometimes be gesturing with my hands, only to realize at some point that what I think I'm doing looks nothing like what I'm actually doing. When I see video of myself, I'm always shocked just how... HANDICAPPED... I look. The way I move, the way I shift... even my head and neck. Despite being born with CP, I do not identify with the body I possess. Even as a small child I didn't identify with my body. I was once taken to a horseback riding camp for disabled children. I asked my mom why we were there, with all these handicapped people, and quite adamantly stated that I wasn't like them. She agreed, and we left.
I have a feeling the vast majority of people with disabilities feel the same way -- that we are not in the body we are supposed to have, which explains all kinds of behavior. And I emphasize with AB sufferers of BIID, though I imagine the possibility, however slight, that you can one day be in the body you relate to, makes it more obsessive -- the lack of such a possibility relegates my desire to strictly fantasy. The only difference is that I'm "supposed to" want to be AB, and the reverse is less common.
What about you? Do you see yourself the way you are? Are you the person you were supposed to be -- physically, mentally, emotionally? Do others see you vastly different than the way you see yourself?
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Post by devogirl on Nov 6, 2011 0:00:53 GMT -5
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Post by Corey on Nov 6, 2011 0:58:36 GMT -5
I have noticed this before, but never thought about it in this way.
I know exactly what you mean when you talk about how you see yourself is different from how you really look. I think my hands, my movements, etc look normal, but when I see myself in the mirror I look completely different. Its haunting. Like its someone else.
I think this goes both ways though. I dont think my friends see me as disabled. Who knows, maybe they see me the same way I see myself. Conscious perception is very subjective.
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Post by Peony on Nov 6, 2011 5:07:20 GMT -5
Extremely interesting! (and no trace of sarcasm, just to clarify  ) |
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Post by Peony on Nov 6, 2011 6:18:11 GMT -5
This is such a great post, though. So much food for thought! I am still ruminating on my response, but in the meantime, does anyone know much about brain mapping/remapping? I only know about it from a nerve injury point of view (which I assume is similar if anything is amputated...depending on the severity of the nerve injury, of course), but would be interesting to know how it manifests itself in people who were born with their condition, or aquired it at a very young age (such as Kohn, in devogirl's link).
Anyway, musings aside, excellent topic.
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Post by ruthmadison on Nov 6, 2011 7:17:11 GMT -5
What a beautiful description. I agree, I don't see myself as I am.
For me it's to do with weight. Sometimes you see someone who is extremely heavy, right? And you wonder how they let themselves get that way. I think it's because they honestly don't realize it's happening.
I'm currently about twenty pounds heavier than I was through most of my adult life. I went through depression after losing my best friend in a car accident and I gained about thirty pounds. I went to weight watchers and lost ten of it and I've been struggling with the rest for over a year.
The reason it's been so hard to lose the rest is that I don't see it when I look in the mirror. I see myself exactly the same as I've always looked, which is thin. Then someone takes a candid picture and I cringe, because I look a lot fatter than I thought I was.
I talked with my dad recently about how we can be looking in a mirror and not seeing what's actually there, and he said he finds the same thing with how old he is. In his mind he sees himself as around 24 years old. When he looks in the mirror he doesn't actually see how white his hair has become. It's only in photographs when he realizes it and wonders who that old guy is.
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Post by Peony on Nov 6, 2011 8:22:08 GMT -5
Firstly, aside from people you love and trust, I think it can be incredibly hard to gauge how others see you (and all the 'yous' that can entail-self-styled, if you feel angry, sad, elated, or if you are roaringly drunk), as well as the fact that people see different things in the same person in different circumstances. Then your perceptions of how people see you is another kettle of fish!
But. In person, I evidently come across as a bit of a hard ass. I am pretty tall for a girl (not crazy tall, but over 5' 7, and was that height when I was 12), and I'm also fairly strong (imagine my horror when a masseuse I went to jokingly said "what are you, a wrestler!?"). When I was young it wasn't too much of an issue, but once I got into high school, quite a few girls were scared of me. It was so bizarre to me whenever I found that out, as I am SO not a person who picks on others, and any kind of cruelty or violence against anything makes me quail inside. I used to find it kind of humiliating, actually, to be thought of as an aggressive person, especially when it relates to aspects of your body that you have almost no control over.
I also think a lot (I want to say most) of women are unable to see their own beauty...or, more correctly, it can take a while to integrate it. I remember talking about it (a little less articulately about 10 years ago), with one of my closest friends, who also happens to be extremely attractive. She was so lucid about it, and almost (kindly) laughed, and told me all that ridiculously obsessive worrying about how we look etc is all fake. I still remember seeing the first photo of myself (as an adult) that I liked-if it was anybody else, it would have been beautiful.
The brain is a strange and amazing thing!
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Post by dentelle on Nov 6, 2011 8:57:12 GMT -5
Hugggggles E Yeah, what I think I am or sound like is different from what I see in the mirror. I've had a few 'Who the heck is that' moments while looking in the mirror or at pictures. Don't even get me started on my voice hehe. It used to upset me big time. I guess we are all programmed like this. sigh. Look at the people who go on American Idol and you see they think they are the greatest  Then they get all upset cause the judges say they have never seen such an awful performance.... |
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Post by ruthmadison on Nov 6, 2011 9:44:19 GMT -5
"The way people look at themselves as individuals and the way they perceive their bodies is a really interesting subject that is largely unanswered in cognitive neuroscience"
Yes, and such an interesting topic. I have a cousin who they say suffers from body integration disorder because she obsesses over her appearance and is always dissatisfied, when in reality she is incredibly beautiful. It's sad to me that she isn't able to see that.
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Post by matisse on Nov 6, 2011 21:08:44 GMT -5
When I see video of myself, I'm always shocked just how... HANDICAPPED... I look. I've told other folks this very same thing. It might be worse now because earlier I could pass for an AB in a chair, but not anymore........ I have a feeling the vast majority of people with disabilities feel the same way -- that we are not in the body we are supposed to have, which explains all kinds of behavior. The divergence between our self-perception and how others view us might explain why we just can't seem to accept that strangers pity us. For example, I am very accustomed to how I eat and drink, but to strangers, it will seem quite......crippled, and sad. Do you see yourself the way you are? I think I have caught up to how disabled I looked 10 years ago, but I am not current. Part of the reason I have caught up a little is that I am fairly self-critical and have become annoyed over the years at various aspects of myself that have changed as I have aged. For example, though I weigh the same or less than 5 years ago, my face has filled out more. I prefer my prior, thinner face. I suspect I am probably going to do one more round of thinning it up, but at some point I won't be able to do that anymore without compromising my health, since my only option is to consume fewer calories. Do others see you vastly different than the way you see yourself? For people who know me, the difference between our perceptions narrows substantially. In fact, sometimes I have to remind my friends that certain things are a problem for me. For strangers, the perception chasm can be quite deep and wide...... |
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Post by BA on Nov 6, 2011 21:41:06 GMT -5
Thank you, E, for that. As always you make me think and then think some more.
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Post by devogirl on Nov 6, 2011 21:54:30 GMT -5
For those of you who didn't follow the link I posted, I will summarize: The podcast is about a guy who was hit by a car when he was a kid and suffered a brain injury, as a result he uses a power chair and his movements and speech are extremely slow. But he's still highly intelligent despite the brain injury, and his mental process is quick. He says that he knew he moved slowly, but he didn't realize his speech was unusual until he heard a recording of himself in high school. Even now, his voice sounds normal to him when he speaks, he only notices the difference when he hears a recording.
In the podcast, they talk to some doctors to see if there is a neurological reason why he doesn't hear his own speech the "correct" way. It's possible. But then they talk to a bunch of his friends who say his speech seemed unusual at first but once they got used to it they didn't register it as unusual either.
I think there is something very powerful about familiarity and self-perception. It's a really interesting story, I recommend listening to it.
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k8
New Member
Posts: 41
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Post by k8 on Nov 7, 2011 1:10:07 GMT -5
Such a great topic, E. I will give you my personal experience, as a fairly new player in this game of life. A couple of years ago I was burned. I had burns on my face, neck, and arm. The first few months are a blur of pain, debreding and surgeries. I wore pressure sleeves for months, and I got a lot of funny looks, but the first time I went out in public without them, I was totally unprepared for the reactions I saw. I think I had gotten 'used' to my face. I was still having physical pain from the tight skin, the mind stuff that went with being abused, so I wasn't ready for the stares and shocked looks. It sent me into a self-imposed exile, only being with people who knew me. I never went out in public.
My brother, who has always been a pain in the butt, ragged on me for months about 'getting a life'. I started communicating with an old college friend who's life had changed too, and the rest is history. Now I live in a little town, and there aren't a lot of people around.
The fact is, I have ended up being in one of the best situations I could have, and it probably would not have happened if I hadn't been burned. I still wish it had never happened.
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Post by E on Nov 7, 2011 1:49:51 GMT -5
This is the most recent video of myself that had me shocked just how crippled I look... and I'm not even doing anything, really.
Crazy.
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Post by matisse on Nov 8, 2011 20:09:49 GMT -5
At some of the Vegas revue shows, you can get a pic with the girls. I got a few with me, but then when I brought them home, seeing myself just ruins the pic for me. So now I just take them of the girls, without me in them.
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)
Then they get all upset cause the judges say they have never seen such an awful performance....
