the Great Blindness Q and A topic

[AlrightyAphrodite]

Do you ever actually use the Braille in public spaces, like on cash machines or near doorways?

[blindlover]

Jun 24, 2019 23:36:21 GMT -5 AlrightyAphrodite said:

Do you ever actually use the Braille in public spaces, like on cash machines or near doorways?

Well, why not go for a simple answer for once ... no.

Partly , this is related to the fact not many public places do have braille out here. Cache machines work with speech, for example.

When places do have braille on them I usually don't know , either because I pass by them alone unknowing, or Witsomeone else wenthere's no een for it.

[blindlover]

Jun 24, 2019 23:23:15 GMT -5 devogirl said:

Don’t feel bad about taking a while to answer, we’re just glad you are continuing to post such thoughtful and interesting answers.

So how does your screen reader read emojis? Does it say “smiley face”? If someone writes does it say “colon parenthesis”? Does it seem weird or natural?

Also a deeper question, what in your experience are some differences between yourself being born blind versus people who lost their sight later?

Oops, there I went and forgot to answer a question from one of my most interested askers. Let me try to put this right and possibly bring this tread to new life.

My screen reader does read emoji. Emoji is nothing more than an unicode character, just like our Normal letters. The device we receive them on  then translate them to the corresponding pictures you see , but they all come with descriptions that are nowadays supported by all standard screen readers. You can find them all here, but be ware , the list is really long , face with tears of joy : louisem.com/17149/list-of-emoji-names

Over all, the descriptions are really good now, so they don't really seem weird to me any more.

As for punctuation, this is entirely configurable in most screen readers. As for myself, I leave all audible and common punctuation marks out , like . , (, ? : and so on.The only thing I tend to leave active are signs that aren't bound to any change in inflection such as _ or / . Also this feels quite natural to me as I've been growing up with it since more than 15 years. In fact, the voice I use is something I hear for multiple hours a day. I use it at supernatural speed  to process information faster , and when I read texts, it is so natural for me to hear this voice , that i'i'm hardly concious  of it while reading.

As for the differences between born blind people and people who got blind on a later age, let me stress first that these  are highly individual  and that they are really dependent on factors like age , environment and the likes. But especially for you, I will allow myself to do a grose  and subjective generalisation.

- People with acquired blindness after 15 or so are way more in touch with sighted non-verbal communication  and visual social norms. This includes clothing , looking at people when appropriate,gestures , make up and the likes. In general they also don't tend to show any blind isms. This is because  they were able to learn these things and can use their knowledge  for decades after their blindness.

- They are better at orientation  and mental mapping than many congenitally blind people, once they have the self confidence and the will to invest in these skills.

- However, some of them never reach that level , and this may impede their independence for years or decades.

Their is a higher chance of non-acceptation or depression because of the blindness. I don't know of any born blind person who has difficulties with this disability.

- They will keep seeing in their dreams 

- And the most controversial  one , Because of their touch with the visual world, they might be more likely to find a (sighted partner.

There is more off course, but this came up at the top of my head. As a whole , I think that much more time should be invested to educate born blind people  from their birth on how the sighted society works and what norms apply there .It doesn't need much explanation that a blind guy who behaves as a sighted person maximally , especially in non-verbal communication, will have more doors opened for him/her than someone who doesn't.

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2019 7:11:57 GMT -5 blindlover said:

Jun 24, 2019 23:23:15 GMT -5 devogirl said:

Don’t feel bad about taking a while to answer, we’re just glad you are continuing to post such thoughtful and interesting answers.

So how does your screen reader read emojis? Does it say “smiley face”? If someone writes does it say “colon parenthesis”? Does it seem weird or natural?

Also a deeper question, what in your experience are some differences between yourself being born blind versus people who lost their sight later?

Oops, there I went and forgot to answer a question from one of my most interested askers. Let me try to put this right and possibly bring this tread to new life.

My screen reader does read emoji. Emoji is nothing more than an unicode character, just like our Normal letters. The device we receive them on  then translate them to the corresponding pictures you see , but they all come with descriptions that are nowadays supported by all standard screen readers. You can find them all here, but be ware , the list is really long , face with tears of joy : louisem.com/17149/list-of-emoji-names

Over all, the descriptions are really good now, so they don't really seem weird to me any more.

As for punctuation, this is entirely configurable in most screen readers. As for myself, I leave all audible and common punctuation marks out , like . , (, ? : and so on.The only thing I tend to leave active are signs that aren't bound to any change in inflection such as _ or / . Also this feels quite natural to me as I've been growing up with it since more than 15 years. In fact, the voice I use is something I hear for multiple hours a day. I use it at supernatural speed  to process information faster , and when I read texts, it is so natural for me to hear this voice , that i'i'm hardly concious  of it while reading.

As for the differences between born blind people and people who got blind on a later age, let me stress first that these  are highly individual  and that they are really dependent on factors like age , environment and the likes. But especially for you, I will allow myself to do a grose  and subjective generalisation.

- People with acquired blindness after 15 or so are way more in touch with sighted non-verbal communication  and visual social norms. This includes clothing , looking at people when appropriate,gestures , make up and the likes. In general they also don't tend to show any blind isms. This is because  they were able to learn these things and can use their knowledge  for decades after their blindness.

- They are better at orientation  and mental mapping than many congenitally blind people, once they have the self confidence and the will to invest in these skills.

- However, some of them never reach that level , and this may impede their independence for years or decades.

Their is a higher chance of non-acceptation or depression because of the blindness. I don't know of any born blind person who has difficulties with this disability.

- They will keep seeing in their dreams 

- And the most controversial  one , Because of their touch with the visual world, they might be more likely to find a (sighted partner.

There is more off course, but this came up at the top of my head. As a whole , I think that much more time should be invested to educate born blind people  from their birth on how the sighted society works and what norms apply there .It doesn't need much explanation that a blind guy who behaves as a sighted person maximally , especially in non-verbal communication, will have more doors opened for him/her than someone who doesn't.

Ive really enjoyed learning more through this thread and just wanted to say thanks, for the time and thought that you put into your replies.

[blueskye101]

Blind isms?
Also, my thanks too for the splendid replies.

[Deleted]

As many others have already stated, thank you so much for starting this thread and for your insightful and deeply honest answers. This is one of the best thread’s that I have read since joining PD. Good luck on this site and in your life. I’m sure there are nothing but spectacular things in your future.

[blindlover]

Aug 14, 2019 4:14:56 GMT -5 blueskye101 said:

Blind isms?
Also, my thanks too for the splendid replies.

I think blindisms are the single thing I am most embarrassed  about as a born blind person. They are (to an extend)  reflexive  stereotype behaviours that you sometimes also see in people with autism, and if i'm not mistaken ,  Stevie Wonder:  shows as well. These behaviours would , according to the almost non-existent body of research on this topic , be created soon after birth , when the brain seeks for more stimulation  than it has  when it receives no visual input. Because this gives a good feeling , these  behaviours are soon after conditioned and become habitual behaviours , especially accompanied with strong emotions. This is because we don't learn by visually observing our surroundings, and parents  and educators   aren't aware of any way to treat it, not that any established program or procedure exists to begin with.  As a result , many of us , including me , struggle with them  for the rest of our lives. Because we're only half aware  of them, it is especially tricky to try and counter condition  them ourselves, and it is particularly cumbersome for our social environment to always make us aware when they happen. Most of my friends are so used to them anyway  that they're not fully aware themselves.

My most pronounced blindisms are rocking back and forth, especially when I'm excited   and  moving my head in a moon like shaped pattern. While these movements are in my opinion  extreme nor violent , they highly contribute to someone's  first impression of me  as not only blind, but also mentally challenged. Off course this impression is not made by everyone and some overcome it as soon as they interact with me, it is important that I get at least a better hold on these behaviours when I would ever move in a professional environment.

Here is what wikipedia has to say about blindisms, although this article  is, as it goes with these phenomena, not very reliable:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindism

And there went my hardest answer so far in this topic ... enjoy  ...

[devogirl]

Thanks very much for your honest and thoughtful answer. I'm sorry to hear this has been such a struggle for you. Have you tried taking classes in drama, martial arts, or other adaptive sports? That can help to train you to be more aware of your body and movements. My ex who was born blind practiced aikido which helped him a lot with confidence.

[Emma]

That's super interesting blindlover. I work with kids with autism and never realized that their self-stimulatory behaviors could be caused by their lack of ability to imitate and learn socially acceptable behaviors. That totally makes sense. Most of the kids I know who engage in those behaviors did not know how to imitate and had to be taught. Its interesting blind kids who can't imitate because they can't learn visually have the same behavioral excesses.

[Deleted]

My stepson is blind and autistic and didn't get the diagnosis of autism until later, due to those 'blindisms' in part. The more I learn about autism though it seems like it should have been obvious anyhow. I guess it's better to be certain though before giving a lifelong label. His needs are complex and more than the sum of the individual parts. It can be especially challenging when most of the strategies recommended to be used to support children and young people with autism are visual.

[blueskye101]

blindlover, thanks for the explanation. Never knew the behaviors had a name. Would be great if this info was more well known and perhaps would not feel as if this was something you needed to eliminate. That’s probably a dream though as we all strive to fit in, especially in the work place. Do most blind from birth people strive to reign in these behaviors? That’s got to be exhausting. I have noticed them before but usually fade into the background as a conversation proceeds.

[blindlover]

Aug 22, 2019 21:25:17 GMT -5 devogirl said:

Thanks very much for your honest and thoughtful answer. I'm sorry to hear this has been such a struggle for you. Have you tried taking classes in drama, martial arts, or other adaptive sports? That can help to train you to be more aware of your body and movements. My ex who was born blind practiced aikido which helped him a lot with confidence.

Thank you so much for your advice. I do agree  that awareness is an important factor  , and that it can , partially be raised through adaptive sports . Other techniques might be yoga or mindfulness. Recently however , a new device is being developed that discretely warns you when you show any of the behavioral patterns you want to avoid using vibrations on your body. This is probably the approach I would prefer, when it comes available, as it can be used directly as a counterconitioning device. Also, for me, this hasn't bee such a big struggle as might have came across  in the previous post  and neither do I think it has caused a very significant problem for my self confidence. Nevertheless it is something I do realize I have to continue working on.

[lisa]

Thank you, blindlover for all the explanations and the insights into your life. I didn't know that blindisms exist, but thinking about it I have definitely seen them before. I did not conclude any mental challenges back then, but okay, I might see the whole person in a different light than the general public ;-). Would you want your friends or partner to make you aware of them when they happen?

Thank you again for the great replies!

[blindlover]

Aug 22, 2019 23:45:52 GMT -5 Emma said:

That's super interesting blindlover . I work with kids with autism and never realized that their self-stimulatory behaviors could be caused by their lack of ability to imitate and learn socially acceptable behaviors. That totally makes sense. Most of the kids I know who engage in those behaviors did not know how to imitate and had to be taught. Its interesting blind kids who can't imitate because they can't learn visually have the same behavioral excesses.

Yeah,  depending on who  is talking about it,  the causes of these behaviours are somewhat similar  for everyone who shows them. However  the lack of brain stimulation  is put forward  as an additional cause for blind people . I would imagine that proper awareness and education from early on in life by parents  and other educators could get us a long way.

[blindlover]

Aug 25, 2019 0:37:10 GMT -5 blueskye101 said:

blindlover , thanks for the explanation. Never knew the behaviors had a name. Would be great if this info was more well known and perhaps would not feel as if this was something you needed to eliminate. That’s probably a dream though as we all strive to fit in, especially in the work place. Do most blind from birth people strive to reign in these behaviors? That’s got to be exhausting. I have noticed them before but usually fade into the background as a conversation proceeds.

I do agree that awareness is key here. However, I am not the greatest supporter of the social model of disability  in this case, that states that the AB world should learn to accept  behaviours of disabled people  and should work towards accepting them integrally. I do agree  that this should be the case when these behavioural patterns  can not be changed. While this is often said  about blind isms, my experience has taught me that with a lot of rigour, these can be managed and counter conditioned.  Saying that this is not possible  is, like many born blind people do , is for me just an excuse not to go through the effort , which after all is definitely not a small one.

Furthermore, as you said, the acceptance  of these behaviours is and will be  nothing but a dream. Our brain is wired to like people who are similar  to us , and dislike people who are different.  This goes on at an unconscious  level and is visible in many areas that could make is different such as race, weight, religion , politics, ... So even if we think we accept something completely , this is not by far always the case, and that does not appear to be any different for disability related attitudes, as illustrated here:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891422213004903