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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 9:28:40 GMT -5
I think this is very much an American "thing". Id be absolutely stunned to see it happen in most of Europe. Personally i would be giving them such a death stare if they tried it with my partner that it would take enormous religious conviction to continue. Im very much of the thinking that you can believe and practice ( just about ) anything you like...but dont try to force your ideals onto me.
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 9:40:11 GMT -5
I want to preface this by saying it's not my intent to offend anyone with this topic. I hope the way I present my questions makes that evident. But I know religion is a touchy subject for some and so I apologize in advance if bringing this up offends.
From a bit of Internet searching, it seems this is a common thing that happens to many disabled people. You're out somewhere minding your own business, you get a tap on the shoulder and someone you don't know asks if they can pray for you. For me personally, I've had it happen two times. The most recent time was a couple days ago. I ordered delivery for dinner and when the driver saw that I use a wheelchair, she asked if she could pray for me. I was caught off guard, just as I was the first time, and so my natural reaction was to say "uh, sure." Internally, both times I did not want this to be happening. But I don't want to come off as a jerk and just say "no." After she was finished, she looked me in the eye and said "you're going to walk very soon." I'm not religious, and the whole ordeal just makes me feel like a prop to make the other person feel better about themselves. Like I'm broken and in need of a repair that only this person's beliefs can provide. But I wanted to see what others think.
And so, my questions are for both the religious and non-religious out there.
Have others had this encounter before? What do you say when it happens? How does this encounter make you feel? If you are a religious person, what is your take on this type of encounter? Is there a polite way of turning down the request that doesn't make me seem like a jerk? Hi!
Well, I am a religious person, even a leader of my parish. And yes, I have had people pray for me. Most times, I asked for it. Every time, the people were people I knew. None of the times was it that creepy sort of "healing prayer". But then... I am no person with disability.
But I was witness to offers of that creepy sort of "healing prayer" to several friends. One very small person (I was immensely embarrassed and angered by how stupid some people can be, she thought it very funny, and we spent the afternoon laughing tears while discussing if her clothes would have grown with her - we were in the lively middle of a very busy pedestrian zone - or if she would then have committed the sin of being indecorous, and stricken by the wrath of god and melted down by it back to her normal size...
And two blind friends. One of them very politely declined the answer and said it was his belief that god had wanted and created him blind for a purpose. (I asked if the purpose might be to educate stupid people, and he told me I was rude, but that might still be the case...). The other one very politely excused himself, explaining he was busy. When asked if there was something more important than the love of God and gaining his sight, he answered, still very calm and friendly: "Yes, I am on my way to sacrifice a cat for my master." well, that ended that communication. He, by the way, is a (Christian) religious person, he even works full-time for a church.
I do not believe in that sort of Christianity that offers "healing prayers". I do not believe illness or disability, poverty ... to be a punishment of sorts, or something that goes away if you just pray right, believe right... whatever. Prayer is not a screwdriver or a hammer, even if some people wield it that way. And I think it immensely rude to drop one's believe onto others in that way. Yes, I pray for people if I fell they need prayer, and of course I do if they ask me to. But I don't stop them on the street (or on their porch) for that. That is simply an invasion into a private zone. And I think it completely fine to turn down such an "offer". If you even muster some politeness - wow! "No, thank you!" would be the most polite answer from me. And if somebody would insist and get pushy, I'd push back, hard. But then again, I know my Bible and would use the book to hit it on their heads (only metaphorical!).
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Post by linda on Oct 20, 2019 9:51:45 GMT -5
The other one very politely excused himself, explaining he was busy. When asked if there was something more important than the love of God and gaining his sight, he answered, still very calm and friendly: "Yes, I am on my way to sacrifice a cat for my master." well, that ended that communication. He, by the way, is a (Christian) religious person, he even works full-time for a church.
This is hilarious! š
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 10:15:41 GMT -5
And I also resonate with whatLinda said about the selfless act the person of faith participated in, standing in the rain with that sign. That sort of brings the Jehova's witnesses to mind ... here in the Netherlands they go door to door and try to tell you about their religion. To be frank, very few people like such encounters, and I'm sure they know that, yet they keep trying. Not because they're whiny bastards but just because it's that important to them. These people get ridiculed and laughed at but still keep going, I think that deserves a lot of respect even if you don't agree with the viewpoints expressed ...
When in University, I had a pair of Jehova's witnesses come to my flat regularly. They got to sit down, drink tea, eat cake, even discuss some religious topics. And we all would know the point when they would smile friendly, and I would smile friendly, and one of us would state: "Well, and our religious views differ at that point, and your argument is x, mine is y - and we won't get that together." And on they would go. They never tried to impose on me. The same with the people who stand in the rain and declare that Jesus is alive. They don't impose. And they don't take one part of me (or anybody else) and use it as a lever, making someone feel inferior or lacking.
If "your faith is not big enough, else you would be able to see/hear/walk/talk/use your arms, loose 50 kg or grow 50 cm" wasn't what is behind these offers of "healing prayers" - at least most of the time, and yes, if there are few who I wrong herewith, I chance it - I would not react as harsh as I do. But I have witnessed whole families turn to that kind of prosperity gospel - and then turn against the one disabled family member, because he or she is not healed. I have witnessed people perish, not because they were disabled, but because their families and surroundings either put so much pressure on them to "start believing the right way, and be healed!" or because their families and surroundings dropped them and banished them because they did not "start believing the right way, and be healed!".
I even know a girl who was hidden away because of that strange way of believing, because her family was so ashamed that they, although "true believers" had a disabled child. They did not want their church to know. A good Christian for them had to have a healthy body, a good job, and healthy children, else he was not a good Christian. They did not educate her, and when authorities finally found her and took her in custody, she had suffered so much neglect that she was not only (as she had been born) severely visually handicapped and with a mild spasticity, but socially and mentally retarded, and her body so underdeveloped that she never learned how to talk, walk or use her hands. That's why I react so vehemently to that sort of offer.
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 10:20:07 GMT -5
I think this is very much an American "thing". Id be absolutely stunned to see it happen in most of Europe. Welcome to Germany: Nordrhein-Westfalen, Nord-Niedersachsen, SĆ¼d-Niedersachsen, Hessen, Hamburg. The places where I was witness or where people who told me about their encounters come from. ;-)
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 10:27:31 GMT -5
The other one very politely excused himself, explaining he was busy. When asked if there was something more important than the love of God and gaining his sight, he answered, still very calm and friendly: "Yes, I am on my way to sacrifice a cat for my master." well, that ended that communication. He, by the way, is a (Christian) religious person, he even works full-time for a church.
This is hilarious! š Well, I did not know at that time what made me cringe more: That obtrusive offer of strange prayer or the fact that he stated the otherwise quite cool refusal while we were on our way to prayer in his church... *cough*
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Post by newjess on Oct 20, 2019 10:46:50 GMT -5
I am failing to understand how standing in the rain with a sign is selfless. š¤Ŗ Also, if Jesus is alive, doesn't that mean Satan won? I was thinking earlier if anyone asks me again if they can pray for me (it has happened before), I will say "sure, and can I hail Satan on your behalf in return?" Because honestly, the offense they'd probably feel from that, might give them a sense of how it feels for me (and others) For those who are not as familiar with how this goes down in the US, this sort of thing is often aggressive and pushy and quite the opposite of selfless, but more self-indulgent than anything. Of course as mentioned before, I have no problem with kind, loving, religious people doing their own thing. But here in the US, people imposing their religious beliefs (often in a self-indulgent manner) is not uncommon and it can be pretty aggravating
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Post by bojangler on Oct 20, 2019 11:06:47 GMT -5
I want to preface this by saying it's not my intent to offend anyone with this topic. I hope the way I present my questions makes that evident. But I know religion is a touchy subject for some and so I apologize in advance if bringing this up offends.
From a bit of Internet searching, it seems this is a common thing that happens to many disabled people. You're out somewhere minding your own business, you get a tap on the shoulder and someone you don't know asks if they can pray for you. For me personally, I've had it happen two times. The most recent time was a couple days ago. I ordered delivery for dinner and when the driver saw that I use a wheelchair, she asked if she could pray for me. I was caught off guard, just as I was the first time, and so my natural reaction was to say "uh, sure." Internally, both times I did not want this to be happening. But I don't want to come off as a jerk and just say "no." After she was finished, she looked me in the eye and said "you're going to walk very soon." I'm not religious, and the whole ordeal just makes me feel like a prop to make the other person feel better about themselves. Like I'm broken and in need of a repair that only this person's beliefs can provide. But I wanted to see what others think.
And so, my questions are for both the religious and non-religious out there.
Have others had this encounter before? What do you say when it happens? How does this encounter make you feel? If you are a religious person, what is your take on this type of encounter? Is there a polite way of turning down the request that doesn't make me seem like a jerk? Hi!
Well, I am a religious person, even a leader of my parish. And yes, I have had people pray for me. Most times, I asked for it. Every time, the people were people I knew. None of the times was it that creepy sort of "healing prayer". But then... I am no person with disability.
But I was witness to offers of that creepy sort of "healing prayer" to several friends. One very small person (I was immensely embarrassed and angered by how stupid some people can be, she thought it very funny, and we spent the afternoon laughing tears while discussing if her clothes would have grown with her - we were in the lively middle of a very busy pedestrian zone - or if she would then have committed the sin of being indecorous, and stricken by the wrath of god and melted down by it back to her normal size...
And two blind friends. One of them very politely declined the answer and said it was his belief that god had wanted and created him blind for a purpose. (I asked if the purpose might be to educate stupid people, and he told me I was rude, but that might still be the case...). The other one very politely excused himself, explaining he was busy. When asked if there was something more important than the love of God and gaining his sight, he answered, still very calm and friendly: "Yes, I am on my way to sacrifice a cat for my master." well, that ended that communication. He, by the way, is a (Christian) religious person, he even works full-time for a church.
I do not believe in that sort of Christianity that offers "healing prayers". I do not believe illness or disability, poverty ... to be a punishment of sorts, or something that goes away if you just pray right, believe right... whatever. Prayer is not a screwdriver or a hammer, even if some people wield it that way. And I think it immensely rude to drop one's believe onto others in that way. Yes, I pray for people if I fell they need prayer, and of course I do if they ask me to. But I don't stop them on the street (or on their porch) for that. That is simply an invasion into a private zone. And I think it completely fine to turn down such an "offer". If you even muster some politeness - wow! "No, thank you!" would be the most polite answer from me. And if somebody would insist and get pushy, I'd push back, hard. But then again, I know my Bible and would use the book to hit it on their heads (only metaphorical!).
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I like that in your case, this has been done either by invitation of the prayee (is that a term?) or with someone you personally knew already. That swap in the direction of request makes all the difference.
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Post by zacc on Oct 20, 2019 11:15:26 GMT -5
My one experience with this was on bus. An older women who seemed to have a developmental disability or minor mental illness asked me if I she could pray for me, I said āno, Iām not religious.ā She replied asking me why Iām not religious. I didnāt really know how to answer so I just said I donāt know. She then told me we all need to accept Jesus into our lives and something like āheāll be coming for us soon.ā
It was a very weird encounter and unfortunate that it was on a bus as I was stuck sitting next to her for a while. And she kept talking about her religion, which made me pretty uncomfortable.
I donāt really care what religion people practice I just really donāt want to have someone try to push it on me like that. And I really donāt want someone else to use a religion I donāt believe in to try and āhealā me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 11:31:23 GMT -5
No one ever wants to pray for me. What does that say about me? lol
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 11:44:45 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I like that in your case, this has been done either by invitation of the prayee (is that a term?) or with someone you personally knew already. That swap in the direction of request makes all the difference. You're welcome.
"Prayee" is not a term, I think, but I'm not an English native. "Praying person" is what I would use. ;-) And yes: The distance between the person praying and the person achieving prayer is what makes the main difference if you talk about it, I think you are right.
If you want to reply politely, stating that the offer makes you feel uncomfortable might be a way to send away polite and reasonable people. Others might think it was the demon (or devil) inside you who feels uncomfortable, and see a point where to start to drive him out of you. (No, I'm not kidding. Things like that happen to me, too. "Don't you want God to take 50 kg off of you?" )
You might want to try tell them - and maybe, just maybe - get the christian person who offers prayer to rethink their way of acting: "No, thank you" and ask them, if they want to know why not, that they go away and read John 9,1-5 - and that Ascension day has been a while ago and you will wait till the Lord returns to heal you, and in the meantime be patient and faithful that what he gave to you was what he meant to have you, and that he made you perfectly capable of carrying your cross. *cough*
You wonder what may be written in John 9? (And no, I don't want to discuss the gospel here, I only want to offer an argument that might work to turn someone away politely!) Here you are:
John 9, 1-5 Most Christians believe Christ ascended to heaven, and that we are awaiting his return. So if Christ himself states that healings of that sort happen while he is on earth and not while he is not on earth, they should be effectively shut up by this. And if someone does not know the bible by heart and asks you what is written there: Don't tell. You want them to go away. So send them away to look it up and pray about it. That's not mean. That's good Christian approach: Find a word of God and pray about it.
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erikajulia
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Post by erikajulia on Oct 20, 2019 11:51:17 GMT -5
No one ever wants to pray for me. What does that say about me? lol You don't know that. Only no one is daredevil enough to tell you to your face. They may value their bones unbroken and their head safely on their shoulders.
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Post by Dr. BiPAP Sachin on Oct 20, 2019 12:55:59 GMT -5
As an agnostic, I would politely refuse in much the same way as devogirl.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2019 13:10:46 GMT -5
No one ever wants to pray for me. What does that say about me? lol You don't know that. Only no one is daredevil enough to tell you to your face. They may value their bones unbroken and their head safely on their shoulders. Or Iām just not worthy.
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Post by LaMara on Oct 20, 2019 13:51:40 GMT -5
I honestly donāt know how yāall stay cool and polite in these situations. Going up to a pwd to āpray for themā first of all implies that thereās something broken and wrong about them, and while this might in part resonate with some PWDs, my experience here makes me guess usually itās an unwelcome and unrequested opinion. It also implies that a supernatural force can actually heal someone and if it doesnāt maybe itās the personās fault for not believing enough or some bs. Finally, as someone already stated, if you want to pray for someone you can do it privately and quietly (which is actually what the Gospels say, I kid you not) so making a scene of it strikes me as very arrogant, selfish and narcissistic. Thereās a fairly famous saying: having a religion is like having a dick, itās great and all but donāt show it to everyone or try and shove it down their throats...
EDIT: I should add that this is very personal to me, as a child I saw my mom constantly surrounded by these religious types, telling her that if she prayed hard enough maybe God would fix her and her ALS would magically go away. They could have spent their time with her taking her outside, or doing something fun, instead she was always stuck at home with some visitor asking to pray together... it didnāt work, she still died, depressed and bitter, her last years wasted waiting for a miracle. Even as an 8 year old, I was angry with these people, they would tell me stuff like āWell, we tried, but God really wanted your mom in Heavenā to which I would reply āSo why did it take him so long and why did he make it so painful?ā And they would just panic and change subject. In short, I have a bad relationship with people who force their religion on others so yeah, I might be biased
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