jta0093
New Member
Posts: 4
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by jta0093 on Nov 23, 2019 11:09:31 GMT -5
jta0093 , what do you think of this conversation? What are your feelings about the comments made since you started the thread. Its a fairly difficult topic for me personally, and I've been reading the thread intently In the interest of fairness i think i should admit to having BIID myself, although I think almost everyone who is, is almost always self diagnosed. One point i was most interested in from the beginning is whether its right for me to use my chair outside is right or wrong. Currently my chair is the only thing ive found that has in any way alleviated the symptoms of BIID at all, and i currently use it pretty much full time at home. I do understand how using it in public is a different notion, and ive definitely struggled to reconcile that. As a Dev also, I'd never want to offend a PWD and i would definitely never do anything that might hinder someone. I do understand how some people find the idea offensive even if they'd agree that's not someones intention. I think its one of many parts of having BIID that involves two different voices in your head with different opinions.
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Post by newmn on Nov 23, 2019 11:20:19 GMT -5
jta0093 - do your thoughts focus on ways to become disabled, or is it more about others viewing you as disabled? Just wondering if being pretenders and wannabes are 2 different things. A lot of devs here have talked about pretending to be disabled but guessing the majority of us don’t have BIID or have a desire to become disabled. I have friends with BIID who have taken the steps to become amputees. I can’t judge them because none of them have ever regretted the decision and all say they’re much happier now.
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jta0093
New Member
Posts: 4
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by jta0093 on Nov 23, 2019 11:39:50 GMT -5
jta0093 - do your thoughts focus on ways to become disabled, or is it more about others viewing you as disabled? Just wondering if being pretenders and wannabes are 2 different things. A lot of devs here have talked about pretending to be disabled but guessing the majority of us don’t have BIID or have a desire to become disabled. I have friends with BIID who have taken the steps to become amputees. I can’t judge them because none of them have ever regretted the decision and all say they’re much happier now. I would say they focus on ways to become disabled, I believe pretenders and wannabees are two different things but im sure its possible to be both as well as just one. In an ideal world i would take those steps but its possible to argue that taking a bed in a hospital/ rehab for an injury i had attained deliberately is just as selfish as taking a disabled parking space etc. At the moment im still seeking other alternatives but as we know there's very little research on the subject. For the moment pretending for me is basically a stop gap measure as when im using my chair i feel a lot more like myself
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Post by robbb on Nov 23, 2019 12:15:41 GMT -5
While I do not understand the desire to become disabled I do have an understanding of BIID and find it fascinating. Lots of interesting stuff here, some I agree with, some not. I don't really have anything much add but wanted to say I think jta0093 has given a reasonable and honest explanation of his feelings. I did just want to answer his most specific question though. I understand why it may be controversial but I personally have no problem with someone using a wheelchair who doesn't have a physical need to. I don't feel it in any way undermines anyone with a physical need, if anything that judgement would be more on the pretender. R.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 2:05:50 GMT -5
I do believe BIID is a real psychological disorder and if a person feels more at ease and balanced by using a wheelchair in public, then for me personally it is acceptable, but they should not take advantage of privileges that "real" physical disabled persons have such as parking spaces. As long as their "balancing" their condition doesn't affect another in a negative way, I think it is okay. I have my own stranger things I do in dealing with some anxieties I have so I understand a bit.
I also personally have a hard time if the person with BIID keeps lying about their condition and bascially never mentions that they actually suffer from BIID and portray themselves as a real physical disabled person from the start especially if the are doing this because I am a dev and are trying to use me for their benefits only. I have communicated with people with BIID and if they can't tell me the truth then it is difficult for me to connect with them. It actually makes me angry.
I always appreciate if the person with BIID tells me that is what they are suffering from, then it is easier for me to to connect and be accepting of their condition. I feel the same way about pretenders, which I know is different from BIID. It is difficult to comprehend that a person would want to inflict actual injury on themselves to aquire a disability but I can see how it could be the solution to their suffering. Unfortunately attempting self harm could be deadly so all in all, it is a very scary scenario without proper and professional guidance and assistance. What comes to mind is transgender persons...about 20 years ago, gender reassignment was basically unheard of and transgendner persons suffered through their lives being in the wrong body and yearning for being in the right body. There was no real process or doctors going through with gender reassignment. Nowadays it is much more common, it is an accepted psychological condition and people can get treatment and ultimately become the person they were always meant to be.
Ideally, down the road, persons with BIID would have easier access to specialized doctors for their condition and assisting BIID patients with obtaining the disability they need to have. That would be the ideal scenario but I also think it should not be done too quickly but the person should have to go through counseling and very clear and structured guidance in obtaining their end goals. I have seen gender reassignment happen with two coworkers and it really makes me very happy to see them happy in the body they were meant to be and also having been able to openly address this in a society that is nowadays more accepting and families who are supportive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 11:30:13 GMT -5
jta0093 - do your thoughts focus on ways to become disabled, or is it more about others viewing you as disabled? Just wondering if being pretenders and wannabes are 2 different things. A lot of devs here have talked about pretending to be disabled but guessing the majority of us don’t have BIID or have a desire to become disabled. I have friends with BIID who have taken the steps to become amputees. I can’t judge them because none of them have ever regretted the decision and all say they’re much happier now. I would say they focus on ways to become disabled, I believe pretenders and wannabees are two different things but im sure its possible to be both as well as just one. In an ideal world i would take those steps but its possible to argue that taking a bed in a hospital/ rehab for an injury i had attained deliberately is just as selfish as taking a disabled parking space etc. At the moment im still seeking other alternatives but as we know there's very little research on the subject. For the moment pretending for me is basically a stop gap measure as when im using my chair i feel a lot more like myself I have a really hard time understanding the need to acquire a disability, and im sorry but im not that sympathetic to the idea. At a time when many people who are disabled through no fault of their own, struggle (and often fail) to get the necessary health care and equipment they need I cant justify the system being added to by a person who has done it deliberately. If a person decides that they need/want to take deliberate steps to become disabled, then they should be responsible for the bills. I know this probably will go against a lot of peoples view but ive seen first hand how much the system is failing people with genuine needs.
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Post by robbb on Nov 26, 2019 14:29:40 GMT -5
The thing is @delight that BIID is a psychological issue that the sufferer generally can't understand any more than you can.
While I don't understand it either I do find it really interesting and have done a lot of reading up on it. I firmly believe that much more research is needed along with treatments to avoid anyone intentionally becoming disabled with all the results that you describe.
A lot of what you describe is, for many with BIID, the source of a guilt that goes WAY beyond dev-guilt.
R.
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Post by Manda2212 on Nov 26, 2019 15:00:38 GMT -5
I think the animus toward those with BIID and the ways that they choose to cope with it kind of interesting. On one hand, they are hearing that they shouldn't use a wheelchair to help alleviate some symptoms because they don't have an actual disability and on the other hand you're saying they shouldn't actually go through with acquiring a disability. Where does this leave people with BIID?
It has been shown that cognitive behavioral therapy does not work for this disorder, and much like transitioning one's gender medically the best solution for BIID is to alter one's body via amputation or otherwise to reflect their internal image. The second best solution is to transition socially which for gender dysphoria is dressing and acting like your preferred gender and for someone with BIID is to use a wheelchair or crutches. I think it even more interesting that people who have such an easy time understanding and accepting transgenderism have such a difficult time understanding or accepting BIID. To me, and my admittedly rudimentary understanding of each disorder, the foundational causes of each are very similar. They both stem from a type of dysphoria about one's body.
Another thing to think on is that people with dysphoria, outside of these very specific issues of gender or body integrity, are sane people. They don't have psychosis, they understand that how they feel is not "normal" and therefore they have deep shame attached to these feelings. Dysphoria, feeling your body SHOULD be a certain way is much different than dysmorphias, which eating disorders fall under, because these individuals think their body is malformed or larger than it actual is. They have a distorted view of reality. So in my humble opinion, BIID is more closely related to transgenderism than it is to anorexia.
Obviously, the OP asked for opinions, so they must be open to hearing them, good or bad...but think on how you feel about transgenderism. If you're cool with it and not BIID...why? Is it exposure in the media nowadays that has led you to be supportive of transgenderism? Whoever said it is right, 20 years ago, being trans was super taboo. Chances are that if it were BIID that were being pushed by the media instead, we'd all be more understanding of it.
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Post by robbb on Nov 26, 2019 15:13:23 GMT -5
I think the animus toward those with BIID and the ways that they choose to cope with it kind of interesting. On one hand, they are hearing that they shouldn't use a wheelchair to help alleviate some symptoms because they don't have an actual disability and on the other hand you're saying they shouldn't actually go through with acquiring a disability. Where does this leave people with BIID? It has been shown that cognitive behavioral therapy does not work for this disorder, and much like transitioning ones gender medically the best solution for BIID is to alter one's body via amputation or otherwise to reflect their internal image. The second best solution is to transition socially which for gender dysphoria is dressing and acting like your preferred gender and for someone with BIID to use a wheelchair or crutches. I think it even more interesting that people who have such an easy time understanding and accepting transgenderism have such a difficult time understanding or accepting BIID. To me, and my admittedly rudimentary understanding of each disorder, the foundational causes of each are very similar. They both stem from a type of dysphoria about one's body. Another thing to think on is that with dysphoria, outside of these very specific issues of gender or body integrity, are sane people. They don't have psychosis, they understand how they feel is not "normal" and therefore they have deep shame attached to these feelings. Dysphoria, feeling your body SHOULD be a certain way is much different than dysmorphias, which eating disorders fall under, because these individuals think their body is malformed or larger than it actual is. They have a distorted view of reality. So in my humble opinion, BIID is more closely related to transgenderism than it is to anorexia. Obviously, the OP asked for opinions, so they must be opening to hearing them, good or bad...but think on how you feel about transgenderism. If you're cool with it and not BIID...why? Is it exposure in the media nowadays that has led you to be supportive of transgenderism? Whoever said it is so right, 20 years ago, being trans was super taboo. Chances are that if it we're BIID that were being pushed by the media instead, we'd all be more understanding of it. Great post Manda. R.
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Post by cilantro on Nov 26, 2019 17:21:56 GMT -5
I think that it's important to remember that at the end of the day something like BIID is not a choice. Just like devness is not a choice. For a long time I debated with myself whether devness was morally wrong or not and tried to repress it because of the negative view of it. But it didn't work, and not accepting that part of myself only made me unhappy. Even if you don't agree with BIID, what are you going to do... ask someone to just pray the BIID away? I think Manda2212 made some great points! As far as taking limited resources away from people with non-chosen disabilities, I remember having a similar debate in a class about whether m->f trans students should be allowed to attend or hold leadership positions at all female colleges. The premise being that sexism is still rampant and these campuses could be thought of as a *resource* (aka safe space with reserved opportunities) for women. I think at this point, that debate reads as a bit outdated. Of course, this is just my opinion, but for anyone with BIID who's reading this, I hope that in the future this thread might read as just as outdated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 20:48:20 GMT -5
Manda2212 echoed my view on this, I completely agree with her
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