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Post by linda on Dec 11, 2019 12:29:04 GMT -5
In Norwegian it’s „funksjonshemmet“ which means „impeded in function“. But there is also the term „ufør“, and that is the term used in all terminologies as financial support, „uføretrygd“. I wonder about the ethymology of this term. Looks like „u“ is a prefix, maybe a negation in the sense of „in“ or „un“. If so, I would like to know what „før“ alone means. Maybe anyone of the Scandinavians could explain about that?
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Post by Amee on Dec 11, 2019 13:17:28 GMT -5
I have also noticed that some PWDs prefer to use the term „Handicap“ in German. Maybe it’s just my impression, and I never dared to ask, but some people I‘ve been in contact with clearly seemed to avoid the term „Behinderter“. Others, like my ex-boyfriend, don’t mind at all. I always had the feeling that he had a very natural, almost naive, healthy approach to his disability, even though he is far from being on terms with it. I have noticed that too, the use of the term "handicap" in the German language. I thought maybe it has to do with "behindert" having become a youth culture term used in so many derogative contexts, often meaning that someone is a stupid asshole etc., so I could imagine that maybe the younger PWDs try to avoid it. All the older people I know mainly use "behindert" and would probably associate "handicap" more with playing golf  I've made the same observation and I agree with loreley that it probably has to do with "behindert" having become a very common pejorative. My younger brother says it aaall the time and it used to really annoy me. I still correct him every time he says it, but I've kind of given up... I know it doesn't stem from any negative attitude towards PWDs. He says far more outrageous things on a daily basis just for the sake of rebelling and breaking the rules of politeness. But I've actually had a conversation about this with one of my cousins, who is one of the most sensitive and kind people I know and quite aware of disability issues. We both agreed that we couldn't really use the word "behindert" or "Behinderter" with a straight face anymore, because it was so charged with this pejorative meaning it has in youth culture. When someone uses it seriously in a serious context, it sometimes actually makes me (and my cousin) laugh, because we have this image in our head of "cool" youngsters using it to insult each other. We both agreed that this was extremely annoying, because I don't think there's a commonly used alternative for the word yet, either. Another relative of mine has a son with a mental disability and she never uses the words "behindert/Behinderung" either, but "Beeinträchtigung", which probably best translates to "impairment". I've also heard that used quite a bit in the disabled community, though possibly more when referring to mental disabilities (not sure, though). Personally, I use the noun "Behinderung" (disability), but not the adjective "behindert" (disabled) (for the reasons described above) or the noun for the person "Behinderter" (disabled person). Depending on who I'm talking to, if I want to be extra sensitive I use the word "Beeinträchtigung" (impairment) with the addition "physical" or "mental". It sounds a little "softer" and isn't charged with any negative connotations. Handicap sounds weird to me for some reason, but I've heard it used too. |
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Post by Amee on Dec 11, 2019 13:43:14 GMT -5
Disabled people face discrimination in almost all aspects of life. We are oppressed by a severe lack of accessibility of public and private buildings (especially housing), poor access to public transport (depending on where we live), discrimination in the workplace by ignorant employers (not to mention the disability pay gap) and underrepresentation in the media. The nondisabled majority attitudes of us often ranges from misunderstanding, to negative bias, to utter contempt. If that doesn't amount to oppression, I really don't know what does. And I'm only scraping the surface here. Sure, but that seems more of a definition of discrimination, not oppression. I can’t speak for other countries, but I would not say that pwds in the US are oppressed. Perhaps in the past, but not today. I agree with @tc123. I think there's a strong trend in social justice politics today to broaden the definition of the term "oppression". While I absolutely agree that accessibility and representation are important, I wouldn't call the lack of either "oppression". Oppression to me is something more active - imprisoning people, putting them into institutions, forcing them to live in certain areas, prohibiting them from entering certain areas, jobs etc. Lack of accessibility doesn't come from willfully trying to prohibit PWDs from entering certain buildings or public transport etc, but simply from not caring enough to spend extra money on it. I wouldn't equate "not caring enough" with "oppression", though. As for discrimination, I agree there's still too much of it, although I would argue that - at least where I live - most of it by now is indirect discrimination and not direct discrimination. In many European welfare states PWDs also get quite a bit of financial assistance. While I think that it could be more in some instances, I would - again - consider it quite unfair to equate "not caring enough" with "oppression". I still agree that it is important to push all of the issues @causticcrip touched on, of course! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 13:47:53 GMT -5
Disabled people face discrimination in almost all aspects of life. We are oppressed by a severe lack of accessibility of public and private buildings (especially housing), poor access to public transport (depending on where we live), discrimination in the workplace by ignorant employers (not to mention the disability pay gap) and underrepresentation in the media. The nondisabled majority attitudes of us often ranges from misunderstanding, to negative bias, to utter contempt. If that doesn't amount to oppression, I really don't know what does. And I'm only scraping the surface here. Sure, but that seems more of a definition of discrimination, not oppression. I can’t speak for other countries, but I would not say that pwds in the US are oppressed. Perhaps in the past, but not today. I would say that being constantly held down by the “system” is oppression. As an example, PWDs are told how much they can earn/possess, where they can live, who or whether they can marry, etc. I do quite a bit of public speaking as well as train department staff on accessibility as part of my job. One of the things I try to leave people with is that disability is the only minority group that at some point in our lives, most of us will either find ourselves in or have to at least deal with on a more substantial level. Yet, we’re the only minority group that it is socially acceptable to openly discriminate against. |
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Post by missparkle on Dec 11, 2019 14:05:04 GMT -5
In Norwegian it’s „funksjonshemmet“ which means „impeded in function“. But there is also the term „ufør“, and that is the term used in all terminologies as financial support, „uføretrygd“. I wonder about the ethymology of this term. Looks like „u“ is a prefix, maybe a negation in the sense of „in“ or „un“. If so, I would like to know what „før“ alone means. Maybe anyone of the Scandinavians could explain about that? Please don't tell me you speak Norwegian, too?!  How many languages DO you speak? 5,6,7??? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 14:33:14 GMT -5
I would say that being constantly held down by the “system” is oppression. Yes, this is my position regarding the definition of 'oppression'. |
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Post by wonk on Dec 11, 2019 14:55:50 GMT -5
Maybe it is your attitude that is holding you down?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 15:04:29 GMT -5
Maybe it is your attitude that is holding you down? I don't think there's anything wrong with my attitude. I stand firm on this issue, but I'm a well-adjusted and reasonably happy person. I feel concerned by your falling into classic nondisabled tropes of "bitter cripples" and "overcoming", though. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 15:18:38 GMT -5
Maybe it is your attitude that is holding you down? WTF? Maybe if he smiled more businesses would build ramps, put in door openers and make their bathrooms accessible. Or was that directed at me? |
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Post by wonk on Dec 11, 2019 15:29:24 GMT -5
Maybe it is your attitude that is holding you down? I don't think there's anything wrong with my attitude. I stand firm on this issue, but I'm a well-adjusted and reasonably happy person. I feel concerned by your falling into classic nondisabled tropes of "bitter cripples" and "overcoming", though. Maybe you are not a bitter cripple. Perhaps a caustic-crip? I am on my way to work so won't give you a lng reply until tonight, but I certainly find your language and attitude a little disturbing |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 15:33:10 GMT -5
Maybe you are not a bitter cripple. Perhaps a caustic-crip? I am on my way to work so won't give you a lng reply until tonight, but I certainly find your language and attitude a little disturbing I am not going to continue this conversation as it bears no relevance to the thread. |
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Post by missparkle on Dec 11, 2019 15:34:32 GMT -5
I think wonk was trying to say one should not have great expectations of anyone else to solve their issues, being ab, or pwd. But to do the best within the limits of possible. "Societies" are ignorant of our needs and don't actually care for individual issues, not yours, nor mine. UK is not accessible for me. Should I fell oppressed? Or should I go to USA, where I am welcome? |
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Post by Amee on Dec 11, 2019 16:51:12 GMT -5
I would say that being constantly held down by the “system” is oppression. Yes, this is my position regarding the definition of 'oppression'. I would assume that the question of whether or not "oppression" is an appropriate term to use in this context comes down to people's basic political worldview. If you believe that it is a state's/government's/society's inherent purpose/duty to ensure all of their members live in relative egality (as is the more left/ socialist view), then it's fair to say that a government/society that isn't doing that, is oppressing a certain group. If, on the other hand, you believe that people are inherently responsible for themselves (as is the more libertarian/ conservative view), then using the term "oppression" for not being "accomodating enough" (so to speak) to the needs of a certain group, doesn't make much sense. (Direct discrimination could of course be opposed from both of these world views, but I think that it's thankfully relatively rare by now, at least where I live (though there certainly are some instances of it!).) I would love to hear how exactly you would define "oppression" in a more abstract way, @causticcrip ? "Being constantly held down by the system" still feels relatively vague to me. What is "the system" and what exactly do you mean by "being held down"? Is my (very short and simplified  ) description of the left/ socialist worldview something you would agree with or does your definition of "oppression" come from a different place? P.S.: Sorry, if I keep derailing the thread, but I think this is a very interesting conversation. |
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Post by devogirl on Dec 11, 2019 19:51:49 GMT -5
This is indeed a very interesting question! The Japanese term „shōgaisha“ is used for physical and mental or intellectual disabilities and can be distinguished further in „shintai shōgaisha“ for physically disabled and „seishin shōgaisha“ for mentally disabled people. Interestingly enough, the character „shō“ means „division“ or „barrier“, same character as in „shōji“, which are the movable paperwalls in traditional Japanese houses. „gai“ means damage, harm, injury. The Japanse also have another term, somehow a gentle description, which reveals so much of the culture: „karada no fujiyū na hito“ – a person who‘s body is not free. And here I came across a very interesting explanation regarding the term in Chinese from an article: „The progressive laws of the 1990s are largely a result of pressure from the CDPF, as was the abandonment of the previously common term canfei (‘handicapped and useless’), in favour of canjiren (‘disabled people’).“ Source: aeon.co/essays/what-is-life-like-for-disabled-people-in-chinaYes, that's what I was thinking of. Those terms were all invented in the 20th century as equivalents of "disability" influenced by the discourse in the US and Europe, and to replace older discriminatory words. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 4:30:59 GMT -5
I think wonk was trying to say one should not have great expectations of anyone else to solve their issues, being ab, or pwd. I do not expect anyone to solve these problems for me nor see myself as some sort of victim. But I can't fight these problems without first identifying them. I am not asking the government to change attitudes, because, to some extent, that is up to me. However, greater accessibility would go a long way in enabling me to do that, for example. |
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How many languages DO you speak? 5,6,7??? 
) description of the left/ socialist worldview something you would agree with or does your definition of "oppression" come from a different place?
