This is NOT a dating site, but...

[IcarusFellOnce]

Extremely ableist attitude, newjess. I'm not here to change anyone's attitude... so this is more a general comment to others than a response to you.

If they (PWDs here) are being a danger to others.. then I know the moderators will do their job. But I will always feel more empathy for someone living with a disability than an abled bodied dev. You haven't lived a day in their life.. and at the end of the day this site is about sharing and tapping into a fetish.. I get that. There is nothing wrong with my message of, "Put yourself first above the ableists and shitty PWDs that will attack you rather than try and understand you and help you develop that "skill".

I'm going to reiterate that message.. no being shitty to people is not ok.. leg walker or not... BUT for PWD's that are struggling... and that feel attacked here.. leave.. at the end of the day... newjess is right.. this site is for them. And abled bodies will NEVER understand what you are going through.. THAT BEING SAID, there are amazing humans here and out there that might try to get to understand you and know you better... gravitate to them... depend on them to help you build healthy connections with others.. once you learn to do that, love will ALWAYS come.

[newjess]

You know IcarusFellOnce, I believe you are the one being ableist thinking we need to treat PWDs differently than anyone else and allow shitty behavior from them because they are poor suffering disabled guys. You can't be serious?

You are also seriously undermining the issues women face by making this a competition, who has it worse, women who face harassment and abuse from men (PWD or otherwise) or being a man living with a disability?

You know nothing about me and the life I've lived.  You know nothing about my physical ability, you are completely making an assumption about me. 


Yes I chose safety for devs and maintaining the integrity  of this board, over coddling PWDs and just putting up with shitty behavior from them, in this scenario because this place is dedicated to us.

[IcarusFellOnce]

Why don't you keep able-splaining to me what I mean. Again.. you haven't lived a day in the life. You need to take ALL people where they are at.. depending on who they are and their situation. PWDs are no different. You need to take them where they are at. And some are in a more difficult place than another. Someone with a family member or if they themselves are dealing with cancer are in a different place. You give everyone the same respect.. but the best humans on this planet will take people where they are at and make them better.. not tear them down. This exchange with you is not fruitful. You want to continue, feel free to PM me. I've said my piece.. and my message is one of understanding.. taking the time to get to know someone and be a mentor rather than tearing them down. I know that's the right message... the rest of you are free to conduct yourselves how you want.

[newjess]

IcarusFellOnce Not sure how I'm able-splaining, and again, how do you even know that I'm able bodied?

I think it's pretty shitty that you would act like just because most of the devs are able bodied they haven't suffered or struggled. Especially when it comes to interactions with men. Many of us are sexual abuse survivors, emotional abuse survivors, rape survivors, the list goes on and on. Not to mention the struggle of being a dev in a society that hates you, something YOU would never understand apparently.

How dare you come here and minimize the experience of devs just because most are able bodied here? You are right, I have nothing else to say to you. You said your last piece so I said mine

[Manda2212]

I think both of you have very valid points, however, calling someone an ablist for expressing an opinion is uncalled for. newjess IS right, PWD or not, bad behavior does not need to be tolerated. Lowering ones standards because someone is disabled is wrong IMO. Everyone has different tolerances for what they can deal with in terms of perceived bad behavior and people should be able to speak their mind at the end of the day without being labeled for it.

This is similar to what many political arguments between left leaning and right leaning people degrade into...disagreement ensues and someone is called a racist/mysoginist/etc. etc. because they disagree with their views. We should all strive to be better than that kind of name calling. It damages reputations. It weakens your argument when you have to resort to that kind of thing.

[newjess]

Well said Manda2212

I agree valid points were made on both sides, and I want to emphasize that I am very much a firm believer in compassion and understanding. I feel like most people who know me would agree with this. I'm not perfect, and it can be complicated when conflicting needs are involved. I do absolutely understand there are many perspectives on this

There's no denying that there is a balance when it comes to this issue, it's definitely not cut and dry, and neither side is entirely right or wrong.

[blindLeap]

Wow ...ok, I hesitate to even stick my foot in this one, but ok, I'll bite.

First ... I would say it is pretty obvious this place is a safe haven for two groups of people. Devotees, primarily female, and people with disabilities, with a definite leaning towards the dev side of things. We have a dev only board ...even that should already make this somewhat clear.
Look carefully, I say safe haven. Not dating portal. That people use it to meet each other, occasionally, shouldn't bombard the community as a dating website. Fetlife is the biggest kink-related social network out there, people literally perving on each other for the sake of perving on each other, and even they take active steps to not be labeled as a dating website by for example not allowing you to search by age or gender. I do not consider this place a dating website because I honestly believe both devs and PWD's tend to have a host of other things to worry about and discuss than that.

And here's the part that will probably make me somewhat less popular to some people, but calling someone ablist because of the reasons mentioned above tastes like disability entitlement to me. I myself am disabled, so know very well the struggles that stigma calls down on anyone, the only way that can be contested is to state that my disability is somehow less disabled because I am blind and not in a wheelchair. Please, do not go there.
yes, a lot of people with disabilities may have trouble socializing or forging connections. A lot of able-bodieds do as well, so I'm sorry, but big whoop.
Comparing your life to that of someone else, when you don't know the struggles that person has gone through but just assuming the struggles of PWDs are always going to be greater ...is there such a thing as disablist? Becauseif there isn't, this is probably what that would look like.
If there's one thing I've learned over the months I've been here, is that the stigma is just as real for devs, just as tangible and just as paralyzing than it is for PWDs, just in a far more incidious, at times harmful way. I would therefore like to pose that there is a word for getting offended for something you yourself are doing.
Do I think pd's a dating portal? No. Do I think the fact this question even came up indicates others do, and it is a problem? Yes. I know for a fact unsolicited PMs have been a thing towards the female devs and that it actually makes people feel uncomfortable ... what was that I said about a safe haven?
I probably should delete this message. I probably shouldn't hit send ..oh whoops, my hand slipped.

[Sova]

Dec 14, 2019 11:12:42 GMT -5 IcarusFellOnce said:

able-splaining

This made my year

[newjess]

Totally agree blindLeap and @tc123

I just had somewhat of a comparison pop up in my mind. If we were talking about a forum for PWDs, like Apparalyzed, etc. Then I absolutely think that PWD should be the priority because that space is FOR THEM

If a place like that were open to devs as guests, I would do my absolute best to respect their space and their community.

This isn't just some fetish/kink site. Devness goes so far beyond that. This is a community that means the world to a lot of people, and has been life changing for many as well.

It's not about who has it worse or who deserves better treatment or anything like that at all. It's just simply a fact that this is a dev space and that's the primary purpose/priority

[Sova]

Not sure if you’re specifically calling me out as you’re quoting some of my words. And if you are, man, you’ve really got it twisted.

Dec 14, 2019 10:37:54 GMT -5 IcarusFellOnce said:

As far as calling out the "pathetic" nature of some of these guys' game... you haven't lived their life or their disability (specifically speaking to you abled bodies out there). And for the rest of the cocky tools out there that laugh at "pathetic attempts" at game instead of being a better human being and being a mentor to maybe helping them out.

Where's the laughter?

I don’t care what life you live, if you come on this board with disabled prick in hand telling all the devs to come and get it, things probably aren’t going to work out for you. This isn't an issue of empathy, it's one of basic respect.

[Corey]

Just to stir the pot a little bit, I want to point out one thing.

Although it is true there are not many places on the internet where devs can go, there are also not many places on the internet where a disabled person can go and say they want a relationship, and not instantly be judged for having a disability by prospective partners.

Carry on everyone, and enjoy your weekend

[blindLeap]

Hmm ...not many, perhaps, but they certainly exist. There are facebook groups for blind seeking blind, for example, and they are quite heavily visited. Things become a little more tricky when blind seeks non-blind though, I would imagine :-)
I am assuming similar initiatives for disabled people in general or other specific disabilities exist :-)

[myrrh]

It's worth remembering that every single newcomer arrives here in a state of heightened vulnerability. We're both alienated groups. The thing that brings us together here- an atypical experience with intimacy- is extremely sensitive and difficult for most people, let alone us weirdos.

Due to the way the Devs Only section is publicly viewable, I've never felt like this place was designed to facilitate devs interacting with devs. It's always felt like a place for mixing, as others have said, with adults who understand our particular brand of otherness.

Historically, we haven't tolerated poor behavior. I think most of us will agree that people with poor emotional maturity don't last long here, because they will not be coddled and will usually be called out. That's the only thing that makes the whole "this is not a dating site" mantra important. It might get annoying to hear so frequently, but it's necessary to ward off people who come here thinking of getting their rocks off, and totally disregard the respect that the rest of us have for the space.

[Deleted]

I don't imagine this survey is particularly reliable considering there's 2504 members and only 59 votes, at time of writing. I reckon most of the members who haven't met someone through this site are much less likely to bother voting, compared to those who have. I also noticed that there were 205 members online on 5 September 2013. Was there something unusual happening that day?

[Dr. BiPAP Sachin]

Dec 14, 2019 16:28:23 GMT -5 @causticcrip said:

I don't imagine this survey is particularly reliable considering there's 2504 members and only 59 votes, at time of writing. I reckon most of the members who haven't met someone through this site are much less likely to bother voting, compared to those who have. I also noticed that there were 205 members online on 5 September 2013. Was there something unusual happening that day?

As a math nerd, I'd have to agree with your first two sentences.