Deleted
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Wow
Jul 11, 2008 15:16:13 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 15:16:13 GMT -5
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Wow
Jul 11, 2008 15:21:20 GMT -5
Post by E on Jul 11, 2008 15:21:20 GMT -5
Sometimes, I'm part of that 52%.
And that's just being honest.
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Wow
Jul 11, 2008 15:33:00 GMT -5
Post by matisse on Jul 11, 2008 15:33:00 GMT -5
They're just saying that, they don't know what they're talking about. When it happens to you, you feel differently.
It does go to show why we get so many freebies when out in public.
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Wow
Jul 11, 2008 16:09:24 GMT -5
Post by BA on Jul 11, 2008 16:09:24 GMT -5
They're just saying that, they don't know what they're talking about. When it happens to you, you feel differently. It does go to show why we get so many freebies when out in public. I agree Matisse. I have met many currently disabled indivuals who bought into the 'rather be dead' philosophy before they actually became disabled. Their attitude changed markedly after they became disabled. It still sums up prevailing attitudes though. Wow.
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Deleted
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Wow
Jul 11, 2008 18:26:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 18:26:30 GMT -5
Oh I agree with yas...I just never realized how many people where so full of sh*t. This is right when I would say "all in".
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 1:43:57 GMT -5
Post by Ouch on Jul 12, 2008 1:43:57 GMT -5
Well, to look at both sides of the road, so to speak, and to expand on what E said...I can at least understand the thought behind death over disability. Liberty is a strong, strong thing, and a sore thing to lose to injury. In the United States, there was a famous government official, Patrick Henry, who himself begged: "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death." So the absolute of that nature has been rather entrenched in basic human thought and culture for hundreds of years.
While I feel now as though I can claim liberty; were I dealing with something more severe, something that really restricted my ability to indeed pursue life, liberty, and that pursuit of happiness...would I really want to live? I don't know, the consequences of death are shrouded with mystery.
I think when people say they'd rather die than live with a spinal cord injury, whether resulting in paraplegia or quadriplegia, they don't realise how much of a life can actually be lived...there are plenty of us out kickin' ass each day and out enjoying life, and I would assume that most of us aren't wishing we were dead, instead. I think a lot of people don't really have the perspective to really answer a question like that unless they've really got a first hand view of how it is quite possible to survive and thrive with disability, which is unfortunate.
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 3:16:41 GMT -5
Post by Triassic on Jul 12, 2008 3:16:41 GMT -5
the real test would be to find out what the post-injury suicide rate actually is...altho no doubt many who wish they were dead-for whatever reason-don't actually kill themselves. still, no way can it be anywhere near 52% of SCIs suicide...
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 7:09:52 GMT -5
Post by Claire on Jul 12, 2008 7:09:52 GMT -5
Well, I love doing online medical research, Tri. Here ya go. The results are very sad, though. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9821893The total suicide rate among individuals with SCI was nearly five times higher than expected in the general population and lower for men than for women. The suicide rate doubled from an early inclusion period (1953-1971) to a later period (1972-1990). An unexpected finding was that the suicide rate in the group of marginally disabled persons was nearly twice as high as the group of functionally complete tetraplegic individuals. www.emedicine.com/pmr/TOPIC182.HTMThe leading cause of death in patients following SCI is pneumonia and other respiratory conditions, followed by heart disease, subsequent trauma, and septicemia. Among patients with incomplete paraplegia, the leading causes of death among incomplete paraplegics are cancer and suicide (1:1 ratio); among complete paraplegic patients, the leading cause of death is suicide, followed by heart disease. Suicide and alcohol-related deaths are also major causes of death in patients with SCI. The suicide rate is higher among the SCI population who are younger than 25 years. jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/71/4/436 (this is for TBI) In the three diagnostic groups there had been 750 (0.59%), 46 (0.61%), and 99 (0.84%) cases of suicide respectively. Standardised mortality ratios, stratified by sex and age, showed that the incidence of suicide among the three diagnostic groups was increased relative to the general population (3.0, 2.7, and 4.1 respectively). In all diagnosis groups the ratios were higher for females than for males, and lower for patients injured before the age of 21 or after the age of 60. The presence of a codiagnosis relating to substance misuse was associated with increased suicide rates in all diagnosis groups. There was a tendency, among patients with cerebral contusions or traumatic intracranial haemorrhages, for suicide risk to increase with duration of stay in hospital. Cox regression analyses for proportional hazards confirmed that there was a significantly greater risk of suicide among patients with cerebral contusions or traumatic intracranial haemorrhages than among patients with concussion or cranial fractures (hazard ratios=1.42 and 1.50 respectively). There was, however, no evidence of a specific risk period for suicide after injury. query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE5D9143DF935A15752C1A967958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all (suicide after amputation, with phantom pain) The suicide rate among such patients is very high, he said. Here's one I found that's somewhat off-topic but still very interesting (and chilling!!). www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8161051STUDY OBJECTIVES: To measure emergency care providers' attitudes toward quality of life after spinal cord injury (SCI) and to determine if their perceptions influence the care they provide. SETTING AND PARTICIPANTS: Two hundred thirty-three emergency nurses, emergency medicine technicians, emergency medicine residents, and attending physicians at three level I trauma centers were surveyed. Their responses were compared with previously reported quality-of-life ratings of a group of 128 high-level SCI survivors. MEASUREMENTS AND RESULTS: One hundred fifty-three emergency care providers completed the survey (response rate, 63%). Forty-one percent believed that resuscitation efforts after severe SCI are too aggressive, and 28% believed that future quality of life should be a factor in determining the interventions that should be provided. If they sustained severe SCIs themselves, 22% of providers would want nothing done to ensure their survival, and 23% would want pain relief only. Only 18% imagined they would be glad to be alive with a severe SCI, compared with 92% of a true SCI comparison group. Seventeen percent of providers anticipated an average or better quality of life compared with 86% of the actual SCI comparison group. CONCLUSION: The quality of life, self-esteem, and outcomes that emergency health care providers imaging after SCI are considerably more negative than those reported by SCI survivors. Because providers' knowledge and attitudes may affect the care they provide and may influence patients and families struggling with critical treatment decisions, emergency care providers must be aware of outcomes, well-being, and life satisfaction following severe SCI.
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 11:49:35 GMT -5
Post by Ouch on Jul 12, 2008 11:49:35 GMT -5
Interesting information you scooped up there, Claire...lots of information to digest and process, I have suspicions about some of the numbers...
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 13:03:33 GMT -5
Post by Claire on Jul 12, 2008 13:03:33 GMT -5
Hey Wind. I was unable to find anything at all that said that suicide rates were equal to or lower than the general population. If I had, I of all people would have posted it!
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Wow
Jul 12, 2008 13:05:45 GMT -5
Post by Pony on Jul 12, 2008 13:05:45 GMT -5
I remember talking with guys from my work before I landed in a chair, and we all decided we'd rather die than end up in chair, or lose a limb. It's easy to feel that way when the perception of disabled people is so bleak. But after I got hurt I fought for 'life', although I must say there were great highs and great lows for the first 3-4 years post injury which included suicidal tendencies. Out of all my AB friends, not that I have tons, but I don't believe many of them could live the life I live very happy, but you never know what lies deep in your spirit until you find your back against the wall.
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§cαrL£t
Full Member
Posts: 143
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Wow
Jul 14, 2008 5:49:52 GMT -5
Post by §cαrL£t on Jul 14, 2008 5:49:52 GMT -5
Creative-E, I really admire your honesty. The article said that 52% of people would rather be dead than have a severe disability that resulted in them "losing the ability to live an independent life." Like Windrider said, a lot of you guys have much more freedom and independence than the situation these polled people are imagining. The topic reminds me a bit of this scene from the film Before Sunset: Jesse: ... it’s like nothing much that happens to us changes our disposition.
Celine: Really- you believe that?
Jesse: I think so. I read this study where they followed people who’d won the lottery-
Celine: Umm hmm.
Jesse: ...and people who’d become paraplegics, right? I mean, you’d think that one extreme is gonna make you ... euphoric and the other suicidal but the study shows that after about six months—
Celine: Mm hmmm.
Jesse: Right ... as soon as people’d gotten used to their new situation, uh, they were more or less the same
Celine: (doubtfully) The same.
Jesse: Well, yeah. Like uh, if they were basically an optimistic jovial person,
Celine: Um hmm.
Jesse: They’re now an optimistic jovial person in a wheelchair. If they’re a petty miserable asshole, okay they’re a petty miserable asshole with a new Cadillac, a house and a boat. Do you agree??
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Wow
Jul 14, 2008 7:52:18 GMT -5
Post by E on Jul 14, 2008 7:52:18 GMT -5
I do agree.
99% of the time, I'm a ridiculously optimistic, jovial person... and in that other 1%, you'd still think I was if you saw me. And I think I'd be that way regardless. I was a smiling, happy baby. I was a happy kid. And I'm a happy adult.
Our situation doesn't define our happiness. It never has. It never will.
And here's what I wonder... Every now and again, I fall into that 52%. If I was walking about ably, would I still have those moments just for some other reason?
Probably.
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Wow
Jul 14, 2008 8:23:19 GMT -5
Post by dolly on Jul 14, 2008 8:23:19 GMT -5
i totally remember that quote! i was on a date with a wheeler when i saw that movie.... i think it is true, pretty much. i mean life circumstances can rock your boat and we all have ebbs and flows and ups and downs... and i do think we can change to a certain degree (both consciously and unconsciously)... but a person's general outlook and nature do seem to be fairly consistent through their lives, come what may. even from birth.
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Wow
Jul 14, 2008 15:07:48 GMT -5
Post by mrjefffurz on Jul 14, 2008 15:07:48 GMT -5
im almost exactly the same pre-dis as now,,,most of the time im a man who just never got over being a teenager...one huge change is that while AB things came so easy that i was a slacker way b4 the term enter our vocabulary while now i am driven to excel almost to a point of it being unhealthy...then there's the other side,,,,i suffered from depression all of my life,,,even before i had a clue what depression was (high school senior year)...just as before i have no idea where it comes from,,,the therapist who saved me from becoming a statistic theorized that some outside occurance, maybe even so inconsequesial as to go unnoticed would trigger the unbalancing of those brain chemicals that bring about the depression,,,,and similarly, something eventually brings an end to the episode and i can never really point at an event that was key....the one thing that really surprised me in all this statistical morass is that females were more likely to off themselves....but i also wonder if the way lower number of women buying an sci might in some way skew the data...just a thought...
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