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Post by devogirl on Dec 14, 2010 12:14:38 GMT -5
I talked about the book with Mr. DG. I'm pretty sure he won't read it--there's no way he'd pick up a not very well written teen romance novel, and I know he'd rather shoot himself in the face than read 250 pages of feelings talk. But that's fine with me, because first, although the book is really accurate about a lot of things, the girl is 17 years old, so it's more like a portrait of who I was when I was a lot younger, not who I am now, and second, I already know he understands me and gets the whole dev thing. He doesn't have to read a book to prove that to me.
I agree with E, it's unreasonable to make a categorical distinction between guys who read the book and those who don't. It doesn't mean they're assholes who don't care. I understand how much we devs want the wheeler guys to look deeply into our dev souls and tell us we're ok. (Ironically that's what the book itself is about). But basing your self-acceptance of devness on what the guys think (especially random guys on the internet) is giving them too much power. It has to come from within you. Sure, it would be nice if some of them read the book, but don't take it so personally if they don't.
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Post by Cake on Dec 14, 2010 13:52:07 GMT -5
I understand how much we devs want the wheeler guys to look deeply into our dev souls and tell us we're ok. (Ironically that's what the book itself is about). But basing your self-acceptance of devness on what the guys think (especially random guys on the internet) is giving them too much power. It has to come from within you. Sure, it would be nice if some of them read the book, but don't take it so personally if they don't. You know, I'm actually different in that respect. I don't need the wheeler guys to tell me I'm ok. I never did. That's why it was never important to me to have this board's wheelers' "consent" or anything. You're right, it always has to come form within oneself. I strongly believe in that, especially when it comes to confidence/insecurity stuff. Also, I don't feel THAT bad about myself. I honestly don't care if the male members here think I'm OK the way I am. I care if I think I'm OK the way I am. And I think you all are right: Of course a wheeler who doesn't want to read the book isn't an ass or anything. I don't think anyone should feel obliged or pressured or anything and there definitely shouldn't be a notion of reading this book being some sort of "requirement" to be a valued member. No, no definitely not! I guess it was just really nice to see Wonk show such an interest in it, especially after when many of us had exactly that thought: That this would be a good way for a wheeler to understand us better. But in my case that certainly doesn't mean I expected everyone to want to read it. The funny thing is, all the guys who responded in this thread and actually felt annoyed by Wonk's patronizing style, are exactly the wheelers who DON'T NEED TO READ SUCH A BOOK. That's the irony. You guys are smart enough and insightful enough as it is and you understand us Devs already, and you're also not here to hook up. So yes, it is totally wrong to lump together ALL the wheelers who don't want to read the book. You know what? I don't care if anyone reads this f*cking book. Seriously. I just thought that for CERTAIN guys on this board (no names required) it could be an eye-opening experience as to what a Dev really is and all that. As you all know I find it extremely annoying that many think we're oh-so-sweet and saints and our attraction is simply based on good-heartedness and compassion. So I thought: Hey, if THOSE guys would read this book, maybe they would finally get it. But again, that is all there is to it from my point of view. Nothing more. So smart guys of this thread, don't read the book. You don't need to. Seriously.
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Post by E on Dec 14, 2010 14:40:14 GMT -5
And I think you all are right: Of course a wheeler who doesn't want to read the book isn't an ass or anything. I don't think anyone should feel obliged or pressured or anything and there definitely shouldn't be a notion of reading this book being some sort of "requirement" to be a valued member. No, no definitely not! ... ... you are exactly the wheelers who DON'T NEED TO READ SUCH A BOOK. That's the irony. You guys are smart enough and insightful enough as it is and you understand us Devs already, and you're also not here to hook up. So yes, it is totally wrong to lump together ALL the wheelers who don't want to read the book. You know what? I don't care if anyone reads this f*cking book. Seriously. I just thought that for CERTAIN guys on this board (no names required) it could be an eye-opening experience as to what a Dev really is and all that. As you all know I find it extremely annoying that many think we're oh-so-sweet and saints and our attraction is simply based on good-heartedness and compassion. So I thought: Hey, if THOSE guys would read this book, maybe they would finally get it. But again, that is all there is to it from my point of view. Nothing more. So smart guys of this thread, don't read the book. You don't need to. Seriously. Thank you, Cake. This makes a lot more sense and is a far cry from... I am really interested to know what the reason for not reading it is? *Are you a dev expert and cant possibly learn anymore? I guess I just should have said yes here and moved on, huh? However the main reason everyone should read it, is to show the ladies some support, and to make them feel valued. Whether anyone gets anything at all out of the book, is secondary to the support that a number of ladies will feel. Not to read it to learn anything (though yay if you do), but to show you we care.
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Post by Cake on Dec 14, 2010 14:56:38 GMT -5
Yes E, I get you. I do that think Wonk's "read the book just to show the Devs that you care" approach actually might have been the wrong one. I don't want any wheeler to do anything to *show* me anything. I want him to do it because he's genuinely interested, no hidden agenda. I can't speak for the others Devs, but I don't need you to show that you care. With those of you who do care, I know it anyway. You show it enough, in a much more direct way. I guess I just should have said yes here and moved on, huh? Yep, I think you should have.
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Post by Emma on Dec 14, 2010 16:42:04 GMT -5
Thank you Cake and DG. I was gearing up for a post saying exactly what you two said. I am not making a big deal about my husband not reading it. He knows a lot about me as a dev from the thousands of talks we have had and that's what is important to me. Also I particularly like this point Cake made. Maybe repeating it will catch THOSE guys attention. As you all know I find it extremely annoying that many think we're oh-so-sweet and saints and our attraction is simply based on good-heartedness and compassion. So I thought: Hey, if THOSE guys would read this book, maybe they would finally get it.
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Post by matisse on Dec 15, 2010 17:19:33 GMT -5
I don't want any wheeler to do anything to *show* me anything. I want him to do it because he's genuinely interested, no hidden agenda. I hear women say this so much that I wonder if it's nature or nurture. It always seemed to me like the product of an overly romanticized view of relationship, but perhaps it is hard wired. Most men are totally different on this point: (1) they don't mind having stuff done for them (or more specifically, *to* them ) just to show you care; and (2) they don't mind doing stuff they ordinarily would not want to do, just to show they care. It's a practical approach, because the bottom line is that there are many, many things that women want/need that guys pretty much just don't care about, and vice-versa.
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Post by Cake on Dec 15, 2010 17:30:48 GMT -5
It's a practical approach, because the bottom line is that there are many, many things that women want/need that guys pretty much just don't care about, and vice-versa. You're totally right there, matisse. I think that sentence of me came out wrong. What I meant was, that in this particular case, if you guys choose to read that book, it would be best - IMO - if you do it because you want to learn something, not to please us. If that makes sense...
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