Sept. Book Club Thread #2: Sympathy For Delicious

[dolly]

the book club this month will be discussing two movies, 'carmo hit the road' and 'sympathy for delicious'. we'll be meeting at 8pm EST tomorrow night for a voice chat on Skype. send your skype info to emma if you are new to the chats and want to participate.


***this thread may contain spoilers***


so... sympathy for delicious... what were your thoughts on the movie?

[Emma]

As I mentioned last night. I really enjoyed this movie. It kept my (and my husbands attention) easily and I felt like it didn't focus on his disability too much but also didn't downplay or ignore it. I really like Juliette Lewis so was pleasantly surprised to see her in it. Orlando Bloom was also a main character. How was it that this movie had those two well known names and only opened on two screens and made a mere $13,000?!

[ruthmadison]

Not to mention Laura Linney and Mark Ruffalo are also big name actors!

I was amazed at Orlando Bloom's accent. A very believable Liverpool. Wow, what a creepy character he played.

I LOVED the ending. The very, very end where it feels like healing doesn't have to mean physical healing.

[devogirl]

I'm sorry girls, I have to say I hated hated hated this movie. Please don't take it personally! We can not like the same things and still all get along.

Anyway, here are my reasons.... first of all, I forgot this was a movie all about faith healing. I stayed out of that huge religious argument on the board a few months back and I REALLY don't want to restart it. Please, no! But personally, I am an atheist, and spiritual movies like this leave me cold, especially when it's as illogical and unbelievable as faith healing.

Second, I am not a fan of Mark Ruffalo, Juliette Lewis, or the twee, precious indie film quirks that were turned up to 11 on this movie. I found the shaky, hand-held camera, dark, underlit scenes, and off-center framing annoying, but what was the most grating was the fake improvised dialog. Even though the movie was scripted, they repeated every line twice to make it sound "realistic." The scene where they negotiate how much Dean will get paid was unbearable: "42. 42? 42. 47? 47. 47. 47? 47." etc This style also encouraged Juliette Lewis to lay on all her annoying mannerisms extra thick--I couldn't stand her pretentious junkie rambling. And the incessant use of the f-word, not that it offends me, but it's very trendy right now to use it every other word to sound edgy and raw (see also Deadwood) but it just strikes me as dumb and lazy scriptwriting.

And all the secondary characters were total stereotypes. The rock band especially. And Orlando Bloom and Laura Linney (who are usually pretty good) were just awful. Seriously, a John Lennon accent for a rock star? And the way they all address him as The Stain, OMG, seriously? Laura Linney was embarrassingly bad, the way she read her lines was high school drama club level acting.

The plot also didn't make any sense to me. MAJOR SPOILERS: I get now in retrospect that we are supposed to think Dean made a huge mistake giving up the soup kitchen for the band, and that the priest helped him to find himself by letting him go to jail. But as I was watching, all I could think was that the priest was a huge asshole, first by taking a ton of money and giving Dean almost nothing (ok, so the money was for the soup kitchen but still) and then by lying by omission on the witness stand by not admitting he knew the healing was real. It seemed more to me like Dean was smart to ditch the priest who was using him, and instead to follow his real passion (music) but then he gets punished for doing that so apparently not.

Anyway I was very disappointed because I had been excited for a movie starring and written by a real para. But this was his big statement on the experience of SCI? Faith healing? And even more surprising and disappointing, I didn't get any devo thrill at all. I'm not sure why not, maybe because there were no scenes of him transferring or moving his legs around or anything, nothing that stood out to me like "here is a real para not an actor." I'm sure the rest of you noticed some realistic details, if so please share!

Sorry to start off on a negative note, but in my defense, I do enjoy lots of indie movies. But there's a certain kind of pretentious, hipster douchebag school of film making that I find absolutely unbearable, and this was exactly it.

BTW I know I posted these here somewhere before but if you are interested, here's an interview with Mark Ruffalo:
www.avclub.com/articles/mark-ruffalo,55282/
and a reviewer who also didn't like it from the same site:
www.avclub.com/articles/nathan-rabin-sundance-10-day-four,37445/
you have to scroll down a little to get to it.

But hey, it's fine if I'm in the minority. Feel free to expand on why you liked it.

[Emma]

I'm sorry you didn't like it DG but thanks for the long critique! I enjoyed reading it. I think for me I liked it because I am easy to please and typically don't like the 'way off the beaten path' films. I tend to gravitate more towards mainstream and slightly less known films, music, everything actually. I honestly didn't notice the dialogue being bad but hey I like Law and Order SVU and have been told that the acting there is terrible. I also typically dislike movies based around religion but this seemed to be so unrealistic I didn't really see it as religious.

SPOILER: I liked the twist where initially you though he made the right choice to ditch the Priest who was using him but in the end it turned out to be the wrong one based on what happened to Juliette Lewis. I am however confused about the ending......and I often miss things.....but how did his name get taken off the list of inmates working on the painting job? I'm guessing the priest or some act of God but I didn't walk away understanding that part.

I do agree DG I don't think there were any dev moments but I thought that was due to my lack of appreciation for SCI. I noticed though that he moved his chair well and seemed natural when popping into a wheelie which I appreciated.

I'd love to hear what others thought.

[Inigo Montoya]

Yay, DG! I just finished it and I didn't like it either. lol

I was afraid I'd be the only one.

[ruthmadison]

I thought we were supposed to think the priest was a jerk. Or, well, well-meaning but wrong.

I also often have problems with religious movies. I'm decidedly not Christian and the pervasive Christianity all over the American culture bugs the crap out of me. But I couldn't help being fascinated by the story of someone who wants to heal himself and can only heal others. I found it a really interesting idea. And I've found notions of Christianity really interesting in Saved and Leap of Faith (though talk about your miracle cure endings! Jeez).

I will admit I didn't find it all that devy. It was also much grittier than what I normally watch. Which made me think of it as more real and realistic, but that may have just been the trick of the movie, what they want you to think when they use the kinds of effects they did! I get totally taken in by that sort of thing

I think the bit with the bus was a behind-the-scenes act of God sort of thing. A reward for finally letting go and being happy for someone else's happiness, for his moment of selflessness.

I agree, though, that it would have been nice to have a movie written by a para that was not a "newly injured man wishes he could walk again" story. I hope Thornton continues to write movies and explores some other parts of life.

[devogirl]

Haha, so at least I'm not the only one, but hey, we're all entitled to our opinions.

As I understood the ending, because Dean finally was unselfish and healed his nerdy religious friend via magical sweater, he was finally able to "heal" himself, at least mentally. He has a sort of awakening/baptism when he is drinking from the water fountain, then discovers his name is struck off the prison list, his own miracle or act of god. Ok, so that's his redemptive ending.

But I couldn't help but wonder, now what? So he doesn't have to go back to prison, but he's alone in the desert with no money, no ID, no wallet, no cell phone, or anything. He's still broke and homeless. And presumably he is also a notorious celebrity what with the Healapalooza and the trial and everything. Wouldn't someone recognize him? Aren't there also a ton of other prison documents with his name on them? Wouldn't someone be looking for him? Ok, I know in a movie with faith healing those are pointlessly nit-picky questions, but it just bugged me too much, I couldn't buy into the fiction.

Oh and FWIW I think Law & Order is addictive. I don't love it, but if I catch the beginning of an episode, I have to watch it to the end. I don't think the acting on that show is bad at all. It's like they have figured out the formula for a TV show you can't not watch. It's like a pop song you don't like exactly but can't stop singing, or junk food you can't stop eating.

[devogirl]

Interesting that those of you who really liked it still didn't find it devvy! I wonder why? Is it because Chris Thornton the real para didn't want to be filmed doing transfers or having spasms or whatever, whereas films with AB actors faking it will linger voyeuristically over those details?

[dentelle]

Well, Sympathy isn't really my type of film. He had great eyes...

[Valkyrja]

I didn´t like it either. I´m agnostic but the religious view don´t bothered me (most of the catholics priest I ever knew were like gold diggers... this one is not different)
What I didn´t like is the "style" of the movie; the way it was filmed, the shaky scenes... the way that the rock band say f*ck once every 2 or 3 words (and I´m a heavy swear kind of woman).
I had no problem with the script because that´s his statement and I think it´s very valid.
And Like Dentelle... I like his eyes.
I think he could be hot... if he wasn´t seem so dirty! LOL
And about dev feelings... NOTHING. It´s amazing because he is a para, and a nice to see one, but not only one dev feeling was touch by this movie.

[Inigo Montoya]

Okay... I'm gonna weigh in as a Christian and someone who believes in faith healing (not gonna dump the shitload of qualifiers here that I want to, lol).

I didn't really take this as an attempt to convert people or make them believe that faith healing is for real. Mainly because it's a movie, I guess, and a work of fiction.

It actually involved a lot of stuff that I don't like about Christianity... the huge gathering for healing (which is often, honestly, done by fakes), the greed of the church, etc... I did think it did a good job of showing Dean's conflict and the humanness of the priest and Dean.

Like DG, I focused a lot on the asshole-ishness of the priest and the part at the end where he's free (at least until he doesn't show back up at the prison?) but transportationless, penniless, etc. But then I had the same issue at the end of Carmo... they've driven forever and wind up at a hovel with a beautiful view... she's pregnant... there's NOTHING around there... no jobs, etc.

Apparently in movie land all you need to have a good life is a great view? lol

[Dee Dee]

Sept 27, 2011 20:31:26 GMT -5 devogirl said:

I'm sorry girls, I have to say I hated hated hated this movie. Please don't take it personally! We can not like the same things and still all get along.

Anyway, here are my reasons.... first of all, I forgot this was a movie all about faith healing. I stayed out of that huge religious argument on the board a few months back and I REALLY don't want to restart it. Please, no! But personally, I am an atheist, and spiritual movies like this leave me cold, especially when it's as illogical and unbelievable as faith healing.

Second, I am not a fan of Mark Ruffalo, Juliette Lewis, or the twee, precious indie film quirks that were turned up to 11 on this movie. I found the shaky, hand-held camera, dark, underlit scenes, and off-center framing annoying, but what was the most grating was the fake improvised dialog. Even though the movie was scripted, they repeated every line twice to make it sound "realistic." The scene where they negotiate how much Dean will get paid was unbearable: "42. 42? 42. 47? 47. 47. 47? 47." etc This style also encouraged Juliette Lewis to lay on all her annoying mannerisms extra thick--I couldn't stand her pretentious junkie rambling. And the incessant use of the f-word, not that it offends me, but it's very trendy right now to use it every other word to sound edgy and raw (see also Deadwood) but it just strikes me as dumb and lazy scriptwriting.

And all the secondary characters were total stereotypes. The rock band especially. And Orlando Bloom and Laura Linney (who are usually pretty good) were just awful. Seriously, a John Lennon accent for a rock star? And the way they all address him as The Stain, OMG, seriously? Laura Linney was embarrassingly bad, the way she read her lines was high school drama club level acting.

The plot also didn't make any sense to me. MAJOR SPOILERS: I get now in retrospect that we are supposed to think Dean made a huge mistake giving up the soup kitchen for the band, and that the priest helped him to find himself by letting him go to jail. But as I was watching, all I could think was that the priest was a huge asshole, first by taking a ton of money and giving Dean almost nothing (ok, so the money was for the soup kitchen but still) and then by lying by omission on the witness stand by not admitting he knew the healing was real. It seemed more to me like Dean was smart to ditch the priest who was using him, and instead to follow his real passion (music) but then he gets punished for doing that so apparently not.

Anyway I was very disappointed because I had been excited for a movie starring and written by a real para. But this was his big statement on the experience of SCI? Faith healing? And even more surprising and disappointing, I didn't get any devo thrill at all. I'm not sure why not, maybe because there were no scenes of him transferring or moving his legs around or anything, nothing that stood out to me like "here is a real para not an actor." I'm sure the rest of you noticed some realistic details, if so please share!

Sorry to start off on a negative note, but in my defense, I do enjoy lots of indie movies. But there's a certain kind of pretentious, hipster douchebag school of film making that I find absolutely unbearable, and this was exactly it.

BTW I know I posted these here somewhere before but if you are interested, here's an interview with Mark Ruffalo:
www.avclub.com/articles/mark-ruffalo,55282/
and a reviewer who also didn't like it from the same site:
www.avclub.com/articles/nathan-rabin-sundance-10-day-four,37445/
you have to scroll down a little to get to it.

But hey, it's fine if I'm in the minority. Feel free to expand on why you liked it.

I´m 30 minutes in and I already agree with DevoGirl - so much that I don´t know whether to watch it to the end or not! I HATE the theme "religious healing" .

Hmm, I like his looks and the fact that he is a real para, but I haven´t had nearly as many devotee thrills (if any!) as I did yesterday with "Carmo hit the road".

So, should I tidy or should I finish watching it? That is the big question ...

P.S.: it´s a very slow film, isn´t it? Nothing much happens in the first half hour except for the same theme (poverty, misery) being played again and again.

[Dee Dee]

Oh wow, he IS devlicous in real life!: www.zimbio.com/photos/Christopher+Thornton/Sympathy+Delicious+Release+Party/qfRqHl8fcWn

[lavly]

cant wait to see how everyone is !

so im going to be late or early or something ... cos i have a meeting in the morning and then ill come straight home .

hopefully i wont miss anything ...

woo hoo see you guys soon