vancityippy
Full Member
Posts: 209
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
|
Post by vancityippy on Aug 19, 2012 13:39:59 GMT -5
This has come up several times now when listening to disabled guys talk about relationships...they mention that they feel it may be "selfish" to want a relationship... The first time I heard it, I was dating a guy...when he said it and I just thought it was an excuse to brush me off.
But it's come up again on the board and in some conversations. (thatgimpyguy...you mention it in your "first time" thread...and spurs...you also said you had something to say on the topic)
Do guys want to share their thoughts on this? Is this a common feeling/ fear that people with disabilities have?
|
|
|
Post by nordic on Aug 19, 2012 15:11:13 GMT -5
As someone who requires a lot of help I just know how much of a burden it can be for people around you. Having had my family helping me during all my childhood, especially with my mum I realized how difficult it is to balance the needs of everyone involved. Most people - especially devotees for some obvious reason - are eager to help at first. But when it becomes a responsibility and an everyday thing, helping someone does become a burden for sure. You are depending on each other, no matter how sh*tty you feel or how much of a fight you just had.
I can imagine many other people with disabilities have made similar experiences with family, friends or even their partners. Thus allowing someone to step into your life and ultimately having to consider spending your life together is a tough call if you don't have any other option to get the help you need. So I can see where the fear to be selfish for wanting a relationship comes from. There are so many possible misunderstandings in so many ways.
For sure, a lot of disabled people I know (including myself sometimes, I have to admit) believe that they are just a bit more "maintenance" - but I think in that case you just need to play with open cards: I would not feel comfortable getting into a relationship when I feel I would burden my partner. To be sure about that, I need to be sure that we both have a very clear idea on what will be different and whether we want it that way. In the end for me it comes down to clear and honest communication, especially regarding expectations and limits, from both sides. Then there is no need to feel selfish.
|
|
|
Post by janewheeler on Aug 19, 2012 18:34:37 GMT -5
You should never feel sorry for wanting love, even if you know it may be quite difficult to reach your ultimate goal.
|
|
thatgimpyguy
Junior Member
Posts: 82
Relationship Status: Single
|
Post by thatgimpyguy on Aug 19, 2012 23:14:49 GMT -5
I did say that, which is something that I battle with. It's not a matter of being emotionally fearful, what it comes down to for me is being too high maintenace for a partner to feel secure, helpful, and taken care of, without going insane. The guilt would come from worrying too much of the focus would be on me. I agree with nordic in that respect. I also think it depends on a case by case basis on the severity of the disability and whether or not it was progressive. For me, since my disability is progressive, a part of me knows I won't (most likely) be alive very long. So, to get into a relationship, to show a girl affection, have her get emotionally and physically attached, only to leave her, makes me feel horrible. If I loved this potential partner unconditionally, part of love is to prevent pain, and if loving me would eventually be painful for her, how could I let myself put her in that position? Again, I appreciate the argument that a girl would know what she's getting into and could make her own decisions, but no matter how mentally prepared you think you are, you'll never really know the reality until you live it day to day. My opinion IS slowly changing since the discovery of devs, but that change is also falling under guilt. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a catch 22 situation. I also think it has to do, for a lot of guys, with just feeling like the "guy" in the relationship in the traditional sense. Your natural instinct is to be the provider/protector and when you can't do that, that almost feels like a more inadequacy than the physical disability itself. And that's not a jab on gender equality, but there's always going to be that instinct.
|
|
|
Post by spurs2000 on Aug 20, 2012 5:07:51 GMT -5
As someone who requires a lot of help I just know how much of a burden it can be for people around you. Having had my family helping me during all my childhood, especially with my mum I realized how difficult it is to balance the needs of everyone involved. Most people - especially devotees for some obvious reason - are eager to help at first. But when it becomes a responsibility and an everyday thing, helping someone does become a burden for sure. You are depending on each other, no matter how sh*tty you feel or how much of a fight you just had. I can imagine many other people with disabilities have made similar experiences with family, friends or even their partners. Thus allowing someone to step into your life and ultimately having to consider spending your life together is a tough call if you don't have any other option to get the help you need. So I can see where the fear to be selfish for wanting a relationship comes from. There are so many possible misunderstandings in so many ways. For sure, a lot of disabled people I know (including myself sometimes, I have to admit) believe that they are just a bit more "maintenance" - but I think in that case you just need to play with open cards: I would not feel comfortable getting into a relationship when I feel I would burden my partner. To be sure about that, I need to be sure that we both have a very clear idea on what will be different and whether we want it that way. In the end for me it comes down to clear and honest communication, especially regarding expectations and limits, from both sides. Then there is no need to feel selfish. These echo my thoughts exactly. Open cards is the way forwards!
|
|
|
Post by oregonchris on Aug 20, 2012 7:45:09 GMT -5
I get this, I really do. I was married for quite a long time, and have been divorced now for just about 5 years. I miss the closeness, the intimacy of a relationship. I miss being at home, waiting for that moment when my special someone comes through the door. But, the feeling of selfishness in wanting this does plague me. We're raised in the Western hemisphere with very powerful myths about what a relationship is, with some vague vague, sketchy parameters of what our roles as men and women are to be in the context of an exclusive relationship. So much of that mythology is based on generalized (and totally inadequately defined I might add) ideas of masculinity and femininity. When you're disabled, you simply don't fit the mold of classic "masculinity." So, by entering into a relationship with someone, we who are disabled, must ask, at least tacitly, that our partner adjust their expectation of what they want in a partner. Additionally, if people have little experience with disabled folks, they may fall into that trap of thinking that I may need extra help, reaching things, with doors, etc. and that in and of itself creates a weird imbalance in the relationship. Lastly, given what I've written already, and this comes to the heart of why I am plagued by feelings of selfishness, I worry and fret that I may disappointment my partner, socially, culturally, sexually, physically, etc.
Sorry for rambling. It's early and I haven't finished my coffee yet.
Chris
|
|
|
Post by Emma on Aug 20, 2012 11:58:06 GMT -5
I think you summed it up really well Chris. I didn't think you were rambling. Additionally like someone already said the severity of the guys disability makes these issues play a bigger or smaller role.
Welcome BTW!
|
|
|
Post by lavly on Aug 20, 2012 18:18:08 GMT -5
I think you summed it up really well Chris. I didn't think you were rambling. Additionally like someone already said the severity of the guys disability makes these issues play a bigger or smaller role. Welcome BTW! +1
|
|
|
Post by ~Z28gal~ on Aug 20, 2012 20:23:32 GMT -5
This is a really great topic! I've come to hate that b word - burden! The thinking pattern you guys have mentioned is really hard to break, and as the female half of the relationship, it can be really frustrating! My experience is limited to paras, so I can't speak to anything else, but what has worked for me is open, honest communication, both with your partner and with yourself. And an occasional backhand when the b-word comes up. J/k. Mostly. This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to my bf after he expressed some of these same concerns, and I hope maybe it will help you guys understand this from a dev's (or my) perspective at least: I don’t know how to convince you that you are not and never will be a burden, that it has never and will never bother me that we won’t be able to do some things, that figuring out a way to make a house accessible for you is an exciting excuse to pull out some trigonometry and not a chore. Being honest about what you can and can't do, and what the lady is willing and capable of doing for you long term is the best way to work through this. The little things I do for my bf are not a burden and they do not make him a burden, but it's important to be honest with myself when it's too much. I don't mean too much in terms of ending the relationship, but being flexible about our plans, i.e. not going kayaking after I hurt my wrist, since I'm the one who does most of the lifting in unloading and loading the kayaks. We were recently in the mall, and something struck me as we were waiting in line for the elevator... most of the other elevator passengers were mothers with kids in strollers. Are those kids, with all their attending paraphernalia, the extra time it takes to get out the door, the forethought required before going certain places, a burden? Some people would say yes, but I bet if you asked the parents they would disagree. It's different from their single life and requires some lifestyle changes, but the love they have for their kids overrules all that. For me as a dev, that's my life with a wheeler. I don't mean that to sound patronizing at all, that's just the best metaphor I could come up with.
|
|
|
Post by Emma on Aug 21, 2012 0:57:04 GMT -5
Woah Z28 you just made me think about this thread differently. I feel the same way you do about helping. It's not a burden at all! It's something that I am happy to do as a dev because in return I get the benefit of being with the type of guy who feels right to me. Maybe I am lucky because I am okay with the amount of helping that is needed by the type of guy I am attracted to. I could see that being a problem if the two didn't match (in either direction). So yeah guys. I know this is a tough thing to wrap your head around but getting help from a dev is very different than getting help from anyone else.
|
|
|
Post by oregonchris on Aug 21, 2012 8:20:23 GMT -5
Wow, z28, wow. This is a perspective that has just never occurred to me before. While it's a little awkward for a wheeler to be compared to a kid, (we all fight that impression right?) I really do get where your coming from. It's not because the wheeler (or the kid) necessarily needs the help, but as a dev, it just brings you joy to help. Sheesh, I have so much to learn. Thank you all for opening my eyes a little bit more each day.
Chris
|
|
|
Post by Pony on Aug 21, 2012 10:46:55 GMT -5
You ROCK, Z28.....and so does your car!! : ) No, really great letter..man, that's what I'd like to hear from a girl to give me the complete green light - really!! It's a relief to hear something like that from your girl...that hey, we're in this together!!
|
|
|
Post by BA on Aug 21, 2012 11:47:38 GMT -5
Z, you expressed that beautifully. That IS how I feel. If I wasn't willing/able to help, I wouldn't be there. Also, it would be unfair to someone and to myself to enter into something that I didn't feel I could handle.
|
|
|
Post by BA on Aug 21, 2012 13:41:26 GMT -5
What Lucretia said.
|
|
|
Post by alf on Aug 21, 2012 14:42:44 GMT -5
It seems like some guys are having problems finding themselves in a relationship where they will need to ask for help with things that are not present in ‘normal’ relationships. But I think they are forgetting that most relationships are based on an uneven power relation in one way or another. I am also afraid it is partly a consequense of not having truly dealt with their disability to the degree where it has become fully integrated in their lives. Z28 had a great analogy when she described her observation of mothers with their children and I couldn’t help thinking about some of the relationships I’ve been in where I have been the one who had to wait for what seemed like hours (and sometimes were) before we could go out – or even to bed – because she ‘just had to do her face’ or ‘powder her nose’ or whatever else women do for a good portion of their waking hours in the bathroom. Now, granted… I am a low level para and I don’t spend so much extra time on stuff, but I’ve had quad friends who spend less time getting ready than these girls. Another aspect of this is the fact that it seems like a lot of the devs I’ve know actually like being in the role of helping. It is a subject that has emerged a few times in the time I’ve been a member of this board and I know it’s a precarious (not to say, dangerous) subject. But some devs really do like the power disparity/control aspect of a relationship with a disabled partner – and good for them!
|
|