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Post by cilantro on May 5, 2020 23:20:10 GMT -5
I don't really know what this thread is about. I've just been having this weird feeling that's hard to place and hard to explain and I just kind of need to talk about it.
Here's the deal: I love YouTube so much. Like truly the most. I used to watch a lot of interabled couples on there and then kinda stopped and didn't know quite why. Well anyway, for the past month and a half I've been talking to this guy with SMA and we've been wanting to go out, but obviously with Covid we can't. Tbh we really don't have anything in common, like he seems pretty conservative whereas I'm liberal. He likes guns as a hobby (what even the heck?! I know, it's horrible). I know I'm letting my dev desires win out over my common sense by continuing to talk to him, but the conversation has actually been pretty good all things considered. Anyway -- wow this is a long rant to get to my point in posting this -- because I can't actually meet him irl, I started watching Squirmy and Grubs again just to kinda get something out of my system and it made me so sad/happy/frustrated/anxious/jealous/hopeful/I don't even know. Like we clearly don't have the chemistry of those two and when I watch them I can't help, but feel this sadness and anxiety that I'll never have that, but also hope because their relationship seems to work so well and maybe I could have that one day. And then of course that led me down the rabbit hole of all my all faves like, Role with Cole and Charisma and, like, same thing. I just get this horrible sense of melancholy. I want to keep watching, but it hurts. And also like I don't want to go into a relationship hoping that it will be like someone else's idealized depiction of theirs, so basically I'm sorry to this guy I'm talking to because I'm basically doing everything to sabotage us that wasn't already done by his voting record.
Anyway. I don't know. I just have nobody to cry about this to really who would even maybe possibly get it so I'm reaching out to you, my dev sisters. Please help.
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Post by feelsunshine on May 6, 2020 1:19:04 GMT -5
I hear you! I know the exact same feelings as you have when watching these couples on YouTube. I love to see them together, but it hurts as well because “the girl could have been me”. Most of the guys aren’t even that super hot, so it’s more of a general thought like “it would be nice to have something like that”. IRL I wouldn’t even want to share my life on YouTube at all. I think you’re exploring your devness. And even though that guy you talk to is not necessarily the guy you want to spend the rest of your life with, so what? Get to meet him, explore and see what happens. I met a few PWDs so far, and of course my inner me hoped for a relationship but it should always have been clear to my mind that they were not really “dating material”. Anyways I decided to meet them, explore, and see what happens. And on the long run, hopefully some day during these exploring times, a guy will show up who is “the real one” I think devogirl could “sing a song” about experiences like that and her words meant a lot to me in an earlier thread where I was in a similar situation and helped me a lot to feel better about myself. If I can find it, I’ll post it here later. Anyways, keep going. Theres nothing wrong there. Haha and stop watching couples on YouTube if it hurts too much. There are a lot of single guys on YouTube as well, I discovered that this “hurts” less, because they are “still available” even though maybe on the other side of the globe and hard to reach ;-)
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Post by feelsunshine on May 6, 2020 1:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 3:02:56 GMT -5
I don't watch YouTube videos on a regular basis. I may watch one here or there if something interesting pops up or if I need to "research" something for my writing maybe. Other than that, I really don't want to see other couples and especially not disabled guy with able bodied girl on Youtube. Honestly it has taken me most of the last ten years to come to a peace in my life being a dev with an AB man, this took a ton of energy from me and those were probably the hardest and most painful years in my life. Partly also because it wasn't just the devness that came to the surface but with it, it opened a whole other "can of worms" that was not at all easy. We have found an understanding as a couple and I channel my devness mostly into my writing. My husband being open to my explorations has made things easier for me. If he wouldn't have been open, our marriage wouldn't have survived this. Along the way, we also rediscovered/reinvented ourselves as a couple and with that it has been also the best years really. I'm still looking to explore my devness with a PWD but it's literally not like they are rolling around every corner and the ones' that are rolling into my life are either too far away or are jerks or full of themselves. And since I'm only looking for NSA or FWB, it's not exactly easy either. I don't torture myself watching videos and stuff. In a way the couple videos don't interest me much, could be an age thing. If Youtube, I only watch music videos. I also know I don't want to be confronted with this constantly because it wouldn't be good for me. It's probably a bit of self protection because I think my devness could break me. I am subscribed to some of the PWD guys on YT, but I basically never go look at their stuff. It's somehow a security blanket for me, it's there if I should ever need it, but I also stay away from it. And I don't need it in a sexual way, so I don't have the need to look at videos for that purpose. So in your cases, single devs looking for the dream guy, I still don't think you should dwell on this stuff too much because it's not good. Trying to find that dream guy in the AB male population is already not easy and so adding to that to find a male PWD as a match, I think it's tough. I see just from my friends trying to date AB nowadays, it's not easy. As for your connection cilantro I get your doubts...I am very liberal as well and I have a seriously hard time connecting with guys who are gun loving; actually it's kind of a deal breaker. It's a whole other story but being German I have a different view on this. I have thought about this before when connecting with PWD who are like this, it's actually a barrier for me and in a way I know this is bad, but I don't want to have anything to do with them. This has also been giving me lots of grief over the last years not just in the PWD sector but with regular people and politics. I seriously couldn't hang with people who are like that, it literally affects my health and so I've been staying far away. So I understand your doubts. I don't have any advice but those words "Don't settle" come to mind if you actually are too different with your views. Honestly if my husband would be like that, I wouldn't be with him. He is surprisingly not like that at all and was in the Military for many years. So, as far as finding Mr. Right, try to enjoy your lives and don't put so much pressure on yourself finding the right PWD. But I get it, it can hurt like hell, pain that wrenches your gut and makes you sick, believe me, I have cried thousands of tears over the last years. Maybe have fun with the connections you can have and just go with the flow. Sometimes love happens at the most unexpected times and in the most unexpected places. I am always super stoked when a couple emerges from PD though, it's wonderful but it hurts a tiny bit as well. Anyways, you are in my heart and in my thoughts.❤
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 3:27:12 GMT -5
I had another thought on this - I am sure some of the PWD guys feel the same way about finding a dev...
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Post by devogirl on May 6, 2020 8:34:37 GMT -5
feelsunshine you're exactly right, I have been in this situation so often! I'm so glad my earlier post was helpful to you.
cilantro I feel you my sister. I have been there 100%. That feeling of longing like a physical ache, along with the melancholy certainty that I would never meet the guy of my dreams. It used to hit me all the time, not just seeing happy couples together, although that was a big trigger. That overwhelming, burning sadness also used to be a big part of my dev highs, and it could hit just from watching a movie or reading a book. I used to feel that longing the most with fictional characters, wishing they were real.
So as you know from reading Devo Diary, I never did meet my perfect PWD. But I don't have that horrible feeling any more. I think what made it go away was meeting so many PWDs, and realizing that I could meet them if I tried hard enough. So a PWD was no longer like a mysterious, magical unicorn. The upside of having so many bad relationships was realizing that just a disability was not enough to make it work long term. So I stopped imagining that every hot guy I saw could be my dream guy in real life.
Also do not, I repeat, do not try to date that right wing gun nut. Stay friends if you want to, maybe even hook up if you get a chance. But don't pretend that anything long term can come from that. You're not sabotaging anything--this relationship is a non-starter. Shared values are the single most important thing in a relationship. Common interests are also super important. I know, there's always that voice saying, "But maybe it could work out? How will I know if I don't try?" I'm here from the future to tell you it won't. Devo Diary is basically the story of me trying over and over again with guys I was not compatible with, then sticking around through the misery until they dumped me because I just had to keep trying to make it work. Don't make that mistake. There is always someone else, and I promise you there are SMA guys who share your values and interests.
I know it's so hard in the moment, but just remember you're not alone. The other thing that helped me was channeling my energy into creative output, making my dream guy "real" by writing fiction and sharing it with others. Next time you find yourself falling down that hole of watching video after video and feeling bad, try writing the devviest thing you can think of instead.
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Post by cilantro on May 6, 2020 9:33:37 GMT -5
Thank you thank you for all the responses so far! I knew people here would get it!
I think I can make a hookup/cuddle buddy situation happen, and in the end I think that’s all it’s meant to be.
This comment isn’t meant to end the conversation at all. I just was really relieved to wake up to such great comments.
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on May 6, 2020 10:58:36 GMT -5
cilantro I totally relate to how you're feeling. I turned 30 last year, several months after a major heartbreak from a guy who was "perfect" for me. I thought finally I had found my unicorn 29 years into life and then it all fell apart within a few months. He had deep attachment issues that meant he was never going to be the loving partner I wanted. After finally coming to terms with what happened, I felt more acutely than ever that despair of feeling like maybe I'll never find a partner that I'm deeply compatible with, the Squirmy and Grubs connection, if you will.
It can feel so utterly hopeless trying to find someone you're really compatible with, especially when you're looking for a lot of rare qualities or have unusual interests. For me it's this constant struggle of trying to discern whether I'm settling too much, or whether I'm being too closed off and pushing away potential mates without giving them enough of a chance because I'm being overly idealistic. I think I'm getting better at striking the right balance between being open and not compromising too much, but I still feel like I haven't figured it out.
Another thing that makes seeing the kinds of couples you're talking about hard I think, is that the truth is most people don't find someone they're really deeply compatible with, even if they find love. At least, if you're someone who is a bit complicated with less common interests, it's just kind of rare. I feel like I have to decide between taking a huge risk and turning away all guys that I might be happy with in hopes I'll eventually find that perfect fit which may never come along, or just be happy with someone that's good enough. And I hate the idea that who I end up with might turn primarily on how risk averse I am, how much single life I'm willing to tolerate.
I have no real advice to offer up, I can only commiserate. But I do think everything devogirl said about this conservative guy is spot on. Do not waste more time on this guy. Sharing the same worldview and values is so important. I too have had great conversations with conservative folks, but that's not enough of a foundation for a good relationship. It's hard when you feel a certain tenderness for someone, but you just have to remind yourself that all the time you waste on him is time you could be spending finding and building something great with a guy who is a much better match for you. <3
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 12:53:56 GMT -5
Thank you thank you for all the responses so far! I knew people here would get it! I think I can make a hookup/cuddle buddy situation happen, and in the end I think that’s all it’s meant to be. This comment isn’t meant to end the conversation at all. I just was really relieved to wake up to such great comments. This is exactly why I love PD, it's so important for us as devs to have others who "get it". As I stated before, my three besties know about my devness but they just "don't get it" all the way. They don't know how deep it goes and what it feels like. It's like my friend said before when we had some kind of conversation about the dev topic, "I didn't know that this affects you so much". It makes me sad that they don't understand when otherwise we share lots of personal and intimate middle age women stuff. That's why I need PD and knowing I'm not alone. Yes, we all are different in our preferences, life stories, backgrounds and everything else but the devness connects us. I couldn't live without PD really.
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Post by cilantro on May 6, 2020 14:42:12 GMT -5
Ok followup because I've been thinking about this all day. I don't promise that any of this will make sense or that anyone else will think it relates to anything else, but it does for me:
While my devness has been a constant for as long as I can remember, something that changes a lot is how much caretaking vs. independence I imagine wanting in a future partnership. I feel like with the Squirmy and Grubs relationship, because she is his caretaker as well as his partner, and with Cole and Charisma for the same reason, there's this sense that caretaking is a big part of their lives (I don't want to say it's taken over their lives because that has negative connotations, but it's what they seem to schedule their lives around). To be clear I haven't watched all the videos from either couple, so any perception I have of their relationships has been shaped by my own selective watching, but when I look at them it feels like Hannah and Charisma's partners have been the ones to give them purpose and structure (I know all partners do this, but adding caretaking in just adds an extra layer). Like, even their jobs are now youtube and advocacy (I believe this is true for both of them), which neither would have gotten into (maybe they would have, I don't know) if it weren't for Shane and Cole. I feel like for a person like me, who is sometimes inclined to overindulge in thinking about myself and my own abstract existential dread, there is a certain appeal to being able to focus your energy on someone who's path seems so much more clearly shaped by circumstance. Like, the way Hannah always looks at Shane, you can just tell that she thinks he's the funniest, smartest, cutest, most interesting person in the universe (which is so lovely and I want it, ugh it's so cute), but it seems like she tends to defer to him often. He seems to be the more outgoing one in their relationship, which is probably just their personalities, but seeing it makes me happy-sad because why do I have to be so freakin outgoing and dominant, I hate it.
I think as terrible as health conditions of any kind can be, they do force you to live in the moment and lend clarity maybe. Like, okay, when I was younger I had spinal fusion surgery and it was really awful, but for the six weeks that I was out of school and the year after that that I spent fully recovering, that was completely where my focus was. It gave me a purpose to be healing my body and working way harder than I ever had before to get through each day. It meant that I didn't have to think about if I was working toward my future or making the most of each day, because just getting through them was an accomplishment. Having to take my pills and go to physical therapy and back for checkups gave me a structure that tbh I wish I had now.
To be clear, I don't think that any of this is what led to my devness. Like I said, it's probably the least consistent part of my devness. In fact, more often I picture myself with a very independent PWD and the amazing times we would have at fancy dinners with the producers of my shows. But I think, right now especially, because I'm quarantining, separated from my friends, and feeling a bit lost, I'm feeling in a place where I might just want someone else to give me my purpose.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 15:05:50 GMT -5
Hi cilantro, I was going to say you're not alone but you already know that by now. It's totally understandable feeling sad watching those perfect happy couples while that's all you want for yourself. I believe that sometimes it's better avoid seeing that if it's going to hurt you in any way. Last year I thought I'd met the man of my dreams here but unfortunately it ended in a bad way. While I was trying to heal from what happened I also stopped watching all the interabled couples I used to on youtube because that would make me think about my ex and cause even more pain. About the guy you've been talking to, you don't deserve to create an emotional connection with someone who has values so different from yours. But I believe you should allow yourself to have a physical experience with him to get it out of your system while you don't meet the right person for you. We can't lose hope!
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Post by devogirl on May 6, 2020 18:26:02 GMT -5
why do I have to be so freakin outgoing and dominant, I hate it.
No! Don't hate that about yourself. Never feel bad about having a big personality. You're a star, baby! Embrace it. You don't need a PWD to give your life purpose.
I don't know how those women have made it work for them, but in general, being a PCA and a partner at the same time is a terrible idea. If it is really working for them, and not just exaggerated for social media, they are the exceptions, the .0001% of people who can take on both roles. Please don't hold that up as an ideal relationship because it's not healthy.
It's hard as a dominant woman to find a guy who is truly ok with it, who can be your equal partner and not be resentful. But they do exist.
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on May 6, 2020 18:54:16 GMT -5
Ok followup because I've been thinking about this all day. I don't promise that any of this will make sense or that anyone else will think it relates to anything else, but it does for me: While my devness has been a constant for as long as I can remember, something that changes a lot is how much caretaking vs. independence I imagine wanting in a future partnership. I feel like with the Squirmy and Grubs relationship, because she is his caretaker as well as his partner, and with Cole and Charisma for the same reason, there's this sense that caretaking is a big part of their lives (I don't want to say it's taken over their lives because that has negative connotations, but it's what they seem to schedule their lives around). To be clear I haven't watched all the videos from either couple, so any perception I have of their relationships has been shaped by my own selective watching, but when I look at them it feels like Hannah and Charisma's partners have been the ones to give them purpose and structure (I know all partners do this, but adding caretaking in just adds an extra layer). Like, even their jobs are now youtube and advocacy (I believe this is true for both of them), which neither would have gotten into (maybe they would have, I don't know) if it weren't for Shane and Cole. I feel like for a person like me, who is sometimes inclined to overindulge in thinking about myself and my own abstract existential dread, there is a certain appeal to being able to focus your energy on someone who's path seems so much more clearly shaped by circumstance. Like, the way Hannah always looks at Shane, you can just tell that she thinks he's the funniest, smartest, cutest, most interesting person in the universe (which is so lovely and I want it, ugh it's so cute), but it seems like she tends to defer to him often. He seems to be the more outgoing one in their relationship, which is probably just their personalities, but seeing it makes me happy-sad because why do I have to be so freakin outgoing and dominant, I hate it. I think as terrible as health conditions of any kind can be, they do force you to live in the moment and lend clarity maybe. Like, okay, when I was younger I had spinal fusion surgery and it was really awful, but for the six weeks that I was out of school and the year after that that I spent fully recovering, that was completely where my focus was. It gave me a purpose to be healing my body and working way harder than I ever had before to get through each day. It meant that I didn't have to think about if I was working toward my future or making the most of each day, because just getting through them was an accomplishment. Having to take my pills and go to physical therapy and back for checkups gave me a structure that tbh I wish I had now. To be clear, I don't think that any of this is what led to my devness. Like I said, it's probably the least consistent part of my devness. In fact, more often I picture myself with a very independent PWD and the amazing times we would have at fancy dinners with the producers of my shows. But I think, right now especially, because I'm quarantining, separated from my friends, and feeling a bit lost, I'm feeling in a place where I might just want someone else to give me my purpose. It's always so tempting to think someone else can give you a sense of purpose but it's just not true. You really have to make your own meaning and purpose in life (to the extent it's possible). I know you know that. I don't mean that to sound condescending. But I get what you mean about how having your life (directly or indirectly) shaped by circumstance feels like it can help take that burden off of you to a certain extent. I think it's really an illusion though, you're still making big choices about how you will be shaped that in turn shape your sense of purpose.
I think couples who have made a career of sorts out of documenting their relationship are making a huge mistake. That's so much pressure and focus to put on a relationship. I mean I hope those relationships can withstand that pressure, but I think no matter how much you love someone you need some part of your life that is your own. It's not just the pressure on the relationship itself, but I think you risk losing some of what makes you interesting to each other in the first place. If your day to day life revolves around your relationship and nothing else, what is there to talk about, admire in the other person? Ok, some stuff, sure, but certainly less than there would be otherwise. So I don't envy those couples really beyond the connection they appear to share, not because there's too much care-giving, but because too much of their lives revolve around each other due to the youtube career choice they're making. It's at best going to make them boring, at worst destructive for the relationship.
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Post by cilantro on May 6, 2020 20:35:11 GMT -5
It's hard as a dominant woman to find a guy who is truly ok with it, who can be your equal partner and not be resentful. But they do exist.
Thank you for saying what I needed to hear. It's only really at the worst of times when I resent this part of my personality. Most of the time it's something I take a lot of pride in. It's true that it is really hard to find a guy though who's able to hold his own with a theatre kid, but I'm sure I'll bump into one eventually.
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Post by malibu on May 6, 2020 23:04:28 GMT -5
Loving this thread! I agree with a lot that has been said.
I also think that it does not seem healthy to put your whole relationship out on youtube...well not quite the whole thing, only the happy and convenient things, creating an inspiring illusion for everyone (which is why I stopped watching). I am not sure how sustainable this is long-term, it sure does seem like a lot of pressure.
I am not sure I understand, why would the part about being "dominant" not match with a PWD? Also, being "a little conservative" doesn't mean he is a right-wing nuts. I mean, maybe he just meant that he is dreaming of having a family etc etc? In any case I think you should be transparent, if you think it's not gonna work, don't lead him on
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