manny
New Member
Posts: 22 
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 25, 2020 16:57:04 GMT -5
Hi Manny, I'm sorry to hear you are going through all this. ALS is a very tough condition for everyone. You are absolutely not wrong for wanting sex from your wife but can't make her into a dev any more than you can make yourself gay or straight or whatever. These desires are hard wired. However, many non-dev women are successfully partnered to people even with severe disabilities and find them attractive. But honestly I think this is the least of your problems, or rather one that can't fixed without addressing other issues first. So you were together as teenagers (never a good sign, those immature relationships don't usually last, despite the romantic myths our culture tells us) then got married after she knew your diagnosis. Maybe she was in denial about what was coming, or just didn't fully realize what daily life would be like. Or maybe she already felt obligated to stay, or had romantic ideas about care giving. But whatever it is, she needs therapy now and the fact that she refuses is not a good sign. Also the conservative ideas about sex you both have are making things more difficult. There is no "real" sex--any form of physical pleasure and intimacy is legitimate, whether it's p-i-v or masturbation with a vibrator. She's probably still mourning the life she imagined with you and the kind of sex you used to have, but she needs to work that out with a therapist. As many people have said on this board before, having a partner be a primary carer is almost never a good idea. If she is willing to try to rekindle intimacy, the first step needs to be getting more help with your care so she is doing less. But that may not be possible, and it sounds like she doesn't even want to try. But probably everyone in her life is telling her she's a saint for staying with you and she would be a monster if she left. So you're both feeling stuck, and something has to change. You both have the option of seeking other people for sex, if you could adapt your idea of partnership to your current reality. You deserve to feel desired. However the pandemic is making that even harder; it will be a very long time before meeting other people is safe enough. Right now only virtual hookups are a possibility, but even that could be fulfilling. But I think you need to let her know that the current situation is untenable, and you both absolutely need to see therapists, both together and separately, a therapist with experience with severe disabilities because not all of them know. The point of therapy is not to convince her to have sex with you, but to deal with the heavy burdens you are both bearing. Hey devogirl, I agree that the attractiveness and sexual connection is the least of our worries. I definitely think that we both didn't fully understand what daily life would eventually consist of when getting married. Truthfully, the day that I proposed to her was filled with so much happiness and pure bliss equally from the both of us. Not much had changed for me physically at the time, so even though we had an idea of what would come with my progression, we had no idea what it was really like until we experienced it first hand. That's where I think therapy early on would have definitely helped like so many of you have mentioned. I hope there's still a chance that it can possibly repair even a small fraction of the damage that's been done, if she's open to it of course. As far as the sexual connection, I definitely agree with you of letting go of the conservative ways of intimacy that we had previously. It sucks that I realize this now instead of having explored more throughout our relationship when I was still able bodied. But again, this is currently the least of my worries considering the place we're at now. I think figuring out how to relieve her from the responsibility of taking care of me is a great starting point, she's voiced that in the past and I was naive to not understanding the damage that it was doing in regards to her feeling like my caregiver instead of my wife. I now understand that other couples struck by ALS or any serious disability probably have a much better chance of having a successful marriage if the spouse is not their caregiver. Lastly, thank you for recommending to find a therapist who has experience with severe disabilities. I personally had therapy sessions in the first two years of my diagnosis to try and figure out how to properly cope with everything that was happening to me. And even early on, it was easy for me to understand if the therapist really understood what I was going through and could offer valuable advice on how to help, instead of just generic bullshit. I'll be doing my research. Finally, you're right that my intention with therapy should not be to convince her to rekindle her feelings or have sexual desires with me again. As you mentioned, being open and honest about the burdens that we both feel will be the most constructive way to handle it. Thanks so much for your thoughts and perspective, devogirl. I really do appreciate it. Fingers crossed that therapy will be in our future. |
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Post by happyface2013 on Jun 26, 2020 13:48:45 GMT -5
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manny
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 26, 2020 16:39:40 GMT -5
So, first of all: Welcome from another "Newbie"!  (You probably know more about this place than I do, since you lurked a lot.) Secondly, I'd like to express my deepest respect! I'm about your age, so I can somewhat relate to the general "mindset" you're in. And you sound like a pretty chill dude, despite all the struggle, so I appreciate you decided to join and share your story. I don't really dare to give you any advice though, but I like some of the ideas that were presented so far. Yet, I want to try and answer your question from a "meta" perspective. You're asking whether it's possible to turn someone into a dev, or teach them to feel like one. The question behind that, is more along the lines of "How do I make it so my wife finds me desirable again?", I believe. So I'd like to take a more general approach... You are talking about being able to find happiness and pursue passions. (May I ask: What are these passions?) "Passion" is key here, in a two-fold sense. I don't know you guys well enough, obviously, but all I can say is, in order for someone to love (and perhaps even "desire") you – the craving for which is perfectly natural, so don't think there could be anything wrong with it – there must be some shared passion(s) involved. Sex is (or may be) one of them. There's many different other kinds, and there's different kinds of sex, of course. So still a pretty big basket to pick from. What you make out of it, and whether it's "enough", is totally up to (the both of) you. But, being the hopeless romantic I am, I'd say there is still a pretty good chance things may end up better than expected. A few years is really not a lot of time to "get over" (or "cope with") something like this, and I'm amazed about how you managed to "adapt" so quickly. That being said, honesty is important, too. You're married, so you should atleast be able to talk about your feelings openly which each other. Especially in a situation like this. Try to be pragmatic about it, and cut everything that stands between you on a "human" level. Atleast she's your "best friend", right? And vice versa. No matter how uncomfortable it may be, this is where your friendship is at stake, not your marriage. Get drunk or whatever, play some nice music, and talk to each other til dawn, idk. But you have to open up again, one way or the other. Oh, and I strongly agree, it may be wise to reduce her "caregiving" to the utmost little possible. For various reasons. Maybe it will be "easier" for her some day, and she'd actually "enjoy" doing some more, but at this point in time, it would surely be benefitial. You should spend as much (quality) time together as humanly possible, though. And maybe discover some new "passions" with or about each other along the way. I wish you all the Best, from the bottom of my Heart! –Gin. Hey gin, thanks for your thoughtful message. You're spot on with what I was really intending my initial question about devness and attraction to be. I was still a bit uneducated when I first made my post so I didn't exactly know how to correctly convey my thoughts. In terms of passion and happiness, I was initially talking about finding happiness for myself in every day life and finding the self motivation to pursue my own individual passions. I find that for someone to want to love you and enjoy being around you, it sometimes takes a level of confidence and independence to have things going for yourself. I didn't want to just let my disability defeat me and the drive that I had before. So I've worked really hard to continue that and adapt to the changes in ways that I am still able to follow my passions. You bring up a great point about sharing passions and divulging into them together to continue to build in a relationship. I think that because I'm unable to do so many of the things that my wife and I used to be passionate about together, it has definitely led to a disconnect in a lot of ways. I think that's been the hardest thing for me to deal with because we never expected this in our future together and I am so confident that this wouldn't have happened if I were still able bodied. That's unfortunately been the reason for why I've had such difficulty with accepting that. But I know I need to. I really appreciate your optimism that things can get better. I like to have a positive mindset going into things as well. But I appreciate everyone's opinions on the possibilities of how things can change, for the better. She is my best friend and I honestly can't imagine a life without her in my life, in whatever capacity that may be. Open communication and honesty definitely needs to be a staple in our relationship. I feel like at times, we do have really good communication but it kind of comes and goes in spurts. So it really needs to be something consistent that I can make a better effort of initiating fersure. Spending quality time is definitely something that needs to be done more too. I'm currently looking to get more help with my care so that she can be relieved of it. I agree that it could be super beneficial to our relationship in a lot of ways. Thanks so much for taking the time to give a thoughtful response, gin. You seem like a really cool dude too man! |
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manny
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 26, 2020 16:48:48 GMT -5
Hi there, I hope you will enjoy being part of pd, and maybe find the support you need. As a dev it’s very hard for me to place myself in the thoughts of a woman without an attraction to disability....but I’ve spoken to lots of interabled couples. Some of them were in a similar situation to you, already in a serious relationship or married. For a lot of couples, their love is enough to deal with the changed circumstances and in a lot of cases the relationship actually gets much stronger but for some it just doesn’t work. Some women can’t handle the enormous changes both in day to day life and in the ideas they saw for your future together. I think you need to have very open communication with your wife and hope that she can be honest with you about her feelings. There is nothing worse than a loveless relationship with no intimacy or affection and i hope you can both salvage your marriage but if not, then there is only one option for both your happiness. Hey delight, thanks for giving me insight into what other couples also go through in similar situations. It's really helped me understand that even though I feel like I could handle things in different ways if the roles were reversed, I can't just expect everyone to be like me. It's ignorant of me to think that way because everyone is different. I hope things can be salvaged for our relationship too. I feel like I've gotten so many great tools and pieces of advice from you all that I feel good about having an open conversation about everything with her. Thank you so much! |
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manny
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 26, 2020 17:14:31 GMT -5
from the way you have interacted with all of us here manny , I just want to thank you for being so open-minded, and receptive. You're very polite and willing to listen. I know that will stand you in good stead as you navigate this difficult road ahead of you and your wife. Just wanted to add two things really: 1. Even if things don't work out the way you would ideally like them to, please know that that doesn't detract from the love you two share. Once loved is always loved 2. Some of us devs would consider a full-body paralysis and a working D very very sexy. I don't know if you need to hear that from time to time, but if things get hard, please know that you are still very desirable to a lot of people out there. We all need to remember that sometimes. Best of luck! Thank you, rebeca. That really means a lot because I've tried really hard to break down my prior thoughts and feelings to be open minded and receptive to the contributions that you all have given me in my situation. Without this, I would 100% still feel lost and not know what to do to move forward in in the situation. 1. You all have helped me realize that our love is still deep, regardless of the issues that we go through. I truly feel that and I know that she does too. Like someone mentioned before, I could see this not being the case if I was bitter or angry all of the time, but I've made a big effort to not let my disability and things out of my control, affect how I treat other people. And I think that's gone a long way for me and our relationship. 2. I really appreciate you saying this! I was actually a very confident person when it came to my appearance before I started losing ability and before the drastic changes to my body. I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I used to be a lifeguard in summer time when I came home from college and was called "eye candy" by a lot of the moms whose children I would teach swim lessons to, LOL. It's definitely been a tough struggle losing that confidence and becoming insecure of how I look. It's definitely something that I need to work on because I am who I am and I need to be proud of my appearance instead of dwelling about the old me and how I used to look. You saying this boosts my confidence so much and I really appreciate that! |
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Post by James on Jun 26, 2020 18:23:17 GMT -5
Man, it sounds like your disability is deteriorating fast. Do you have long left? Because if you don't there's no need to rattle the nest. Let her look after you and enjoy life as best you can. If you really need some physical intimacy, tell her and maybe find it with another woman for the hour or whatever. But it doesn't sound like you have time to be forming future new long term relationships. Unless I'm wrong. Dude wtf? You should apologize |
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KingRichard
Full Member
Posts: 200
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled Male
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by KingRichard on Jun 26, 2020 18:45:01 GMT -5
Man, it sounds like your disability is deteriorating fast. Do you have long left? Because if you don't there's no need to rattle the nest. Let her look after you and enjoy life as best you can. If you really need some physical intimacy, tell her and maybe find it with another woman for the hour or whatever. But it doesn't sound like you have time to be forming future new long term relationships. Unless I'm wrong. Dude wtf? You should apologize I was thinking myself what happyface2013 said is a bit missed up when I first read it but I do agree with you that he needs to apologize |
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manny
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 26, 2020 23:38:54 GMT -5
Update (I'm sorry for yet another lengthy post, it just helps me reflect!): I talked to my wife. I took so much of everyone's advice. I was raw, open, and sincere with her about how I felt and how I don't want her to feel in terms of being trapped or scared to want to make changes in our lives and relationship. She actually admitted to feeling the ways that a lot of you described. And I needed to hear that from her. But she also acknowledged the love that she has for me and how important a person I am in her life and that she never wants to lose me. She just wants more for herself in a lot of ways that I can no longer give her and I fully understand and empathize with that.
Overall, we had probably the most deep, heartfelt, honest and important conversation in our entire relationship. We both agreed and are in support of getting counseling individually, as well as together with a specialized counselor who has experience with severe disabilities. Shoutout to devogirl for that specific recommendation! It will take some research but with the whole Covid outbreak, I'm hoping I can find someone specialized in the US who can have the sessions over Skype or Zoom.
It was really awesome that after our conversation, she had a huge burst of energy and was smiling and laughing with me more than she has in the past few years. It was really beautiful to experience again like we always used to and I feel like I literally watched a metaphorical weight lifted off her shoulders. I know this sounds like a really cheesy part like of a movie or something, but it was just really special to experience. And I can't thank everyone who contributed to it.
I'll be here to stay. I'm still in awe of how much growth and perspective I have gained from everyone offering their opinions and advice on my situation. I'm not sure if this will save our marriage in ways that I can only dream of, but I'm really excited for the journey ahead of us to figure out what is best for us both. I think that I have truly learned so much from all of your different thoughtful perspectives that I will be happy with any outcome as long as we are both happy and cherish the relationship that we have together. Times would undoubtedly be much more difficult without her in my life like she is currently, but I believe that's a sacrifice that is worthy of accepting and being okay with.
Tears of joy currently rolling down my face. I can't wipe them off myself, so I'll have my dog take care of that when he gives me his goodnight kisses. Thanks so much again to you all! I hope it's okay that I continue to share our progress over time with you all on this thread. Much love!
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rebeca
Full Member
Posts: 162
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by rebeca on Jun 26, 2020 23:41:45 GMT -5
Our work here is done
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manny
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by manny on Jun 26, 2020 23:53:48 GMT -5
Are you all like secretly Marvel superheroes or something? |
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rebeca
Full Member
Posts: 162
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by rebeca on Jun 27, 2020 0:06:36 GMT -5
we don't talk about it, but our costume is the best.
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rebeca
Full Member
Posts: 162
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by rebeca on Jun 27, 2020 0:06:56 GMT -5
Also DC, always DC.
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Post by infinatedreams on Jun 27, 2020 2:37:01 GMT -5
we don't talk about it, but our costume is the best. is it a bird? Is it a plane? Bow Chicca Wow Wow .. its SuperDev I did try to find an appropriate costume but after hours studying I couldn't decide and was becoming dangerous for my tyre pressure 🙄🙄 |
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Post by midwestguy on Jun 27, 2020 10:16:22 GMT -5
Hello Manny and welcome to the board. I was going to share my story that is somewhat similar to yours but it doesn’t seem necessary now. You’ve gotten some excellent advice and have acted upon it and appear to be making positive progress.
In my few years here I can’t ever remember a guy joining PD to seek out what you specifically were looking for. It’s so very impressive how well you have listened to the feedback and quickly dove into what was a difficult but necessary conversation to have with your wife.
Thank you for being so open, honest and eloquent with your responses. I wish you and your wife the best of luck!
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Post by mona on Jun 27, 2020 16:56:11 GMT -5
manny, I am so glad that you found the courage and apparently the right words to talk to her. I really wish you all the best. And please stay around! It would be lovely to read more from you.
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(You probably know more about this place than I do, since you lurked a lot.)
