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Post by mike on Jul 3, 2020 2:31:51 GMT -5
I look at things a bit differently than many people, and here is how I see things vis-a-vis current events: Most people don't deliberately say or do things that seem to themselves inherently stupid, but rather say & do things that conform to what they believe. In the past however, we mostly watched network news and read the mainstream media. Not that it was automatically accurate, but we were all receiving essentially the same stories, ergo we didn't diverge significantly in our views. Today however, we can choose our information sources, and they often present markedly different viewpoints. Watch left leaning news and you'll get a very different picture than if you watch right leaning news sources. Neither is probably telling outright lies, but they leave people with very different opinions. As a consequence, there are widely different perceptions of politics & events. Unfortunately people frequently think others are stupid or ignoring facts, when they are simply reflecting their news sources. Present the same story in the same way and both people would probably have similar views, but that often isn't the case.
People are generally intelligent, and make decisions based upon the information they receive. But they're receiving very different information.
Take a contentious issue, and imagine yourself being persuaded to a different viewpoint based upon some argument advanced by someone else. Not likely to happen, but the reverse is also true, you're unlikely to change the other person's viewpoint.
If you think you can digest both sides & find the truth somewhere in the middle, that's like standing with one foot on a block of ice & the other on a blowtorch - on the average you would be comfortable - right?
I'm reminded of a discussion between someone who was claiming the moon landing was faked, to which the other person replied sarcastically "Tch...you believe in the moon?"
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Post by Corey on Jul 3, 2020 3:16:55 GMT -5
So well said. Theres a journalist I like, (actually the only one I like), named Matt Taibbi who Ive been reading a lot of lately. Although he has his own political ideology, he loves to call out the contradictions, which are everywhere. I cant say it any better, so I will leave a snippet from one of his recent pieces:
We’ve become incapable of talking calmly about possible solutions because we’ve lost the ability to decouple scientific or policy discussions, or simple issues of fact, from a political argument. Reporting on the Covid-19 crisis has become the latest in a line of moral manias with Donald Trump in the middle.
Instead of asking calmly if hydroxychloroquine works, or if the less restrictive Swedish crisis response has merit, or questioning why certain statistical assumptions about the seriousness of the crisis might have been off, we’re denouncing the questions themselves as infamous. Or we’re politicizing the framing of stories in a way that signals to readers what their take should be before they even digest the material. “Conservative Americans see coronavirus hope in Progressive Sweden,” reads a Politico headline, as if only conservatives should feel optimism in the possibility that a non-lockdown approach might have merit! Are we rooting for such an approach to not work?
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Post by Inkdevil on Jul 3, 2020 4:13:12 GMT -5
You make good points as ever Mike and I totally agree with you.
I steer well clear of any political debates, the news and essentially all current affairs. I know this makes me blinkered and ignorant, but it’s a conscious decision I’ve had to make to protect my mental health. As an overthinker and a worrier prone to stress and anxiety, loading my brain with world problems on top of my own just isn’t manageable for me.
I’ve never been party to a political discussion where anyone was swayed by another person’s views. In fact the opposite happens. Both sides become more entrenched in their own beliefs, discussion turns to argument, people talk over each other and tempers fray, anger and nastiness result. I just can’t watch and listen to it without getting dragged down by it all.
People should listen more and talk less, then the world would be a better place
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Post by wonk on Jul 3, 2020 4:53:36 GMT -5
People are generally intelligent,
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KingRichard
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Post by KingRichard on Jul 3, 2020 9:58:49 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with you Mike when it comes down to politics I am in the middle so I try to look at things from both sides when it comes down to politics
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Post by someonerandom on Jul 3, 2020 10:32:47 GMT -5
Hmmm, I don’t hate this thread. I think if someone does not consume a variety of news sources then they are failing in their duties as a citizen.
The point about looking at places like Sweden, or considering treatments that have an actual scientific basis behind them is a good one. We should investigate VALID options. In the beginning the U.K. was going to go for a herd immunity tactic, while protecting the vulnerable. It was quickly debunked and reversed, but at least in the beginning seemed to have some merit and was worth discussing.
Some people truly are dumbasses though, and should not be taken seriously. Instead they deserve ridicule, because at least that is fun. Being nice to them isn’t going to suddenly make them stop thinking Tucker Carlson is awesome, so I prefer to be mean. I stand by this position (figuratively speaking). I encounter these people in real life, not just the Internet, and they are truly awful and disgusting. Outright racism and ignorance. I don’t give a shit if you’ve been brainwashed by the media. Personal responsibility, right?
Also there are too many false equivalencies being made. Both sides, but what about this thing Obama did, etc.... Just because some people’s perspectives aren’t always getting a fair shake, doesn’t dissolve the very real travesties that are happening right now.
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Post by midwestguy on Jul 3, 2020 13:11:02 GMT -5
I’ve never been party to a political discussion where anyone was swayed by another person’s views. Once, and only once, has this ever happened to me. I was having a discussion with a conservative friend about why gay marriage should be legal. I pointed out that you have to get a license from the government and if you want a divorce you again have to go through the government, courts and legal system to end this "agreement." I asked him how can our government regulate and not recognize what two consenting adults can and cannot do? It opened his eyes and actually change his opinion based on the fundamental principles of a fair legal systems.
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Post by matisse on Jul 3, 2020 15:39:24 GMT -5
People are generally intelligent Some people truly are dumbasses though 50% of people are below average intelligence. Imagine trying to have a reasonable conversation with this person:
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Post by James on Jul 3, 2020 21:33:19 GMT -5
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Post by someonerandom on Jul 3, 2020 22:33:27 GMT -5
Omg I’m such a hypocrite! Clearly the exact same thing is happening in both pictures (if we avoid all context). #bothsides Now go ahead and tell us why you think we need 4 more years of Trump. I’ve yet to hear any of you tell us why you are still in favor of this “leadership”. Why let libcucks like me have all the fun?
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Post by Corey on Jul 3, 2020 22:42:15 GMT -5
Omg I’m such a hypocrite! Clearly the exact same thing is happening in both pictures (if we avoid all context). #bothsides Now go ahead and tell us why you think we need 4 more years of Trump. I’ve yet to hear any of you tell us why you are still in favor of this “leadership”. Why let libcucks like me have all the fun? Its funny how it looks like you tho. He got you good.
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Post by myrrh on Jul 3, 2020 22:58:09 GMT -5
Omg I’m such a hypocrite! Clearly the exact same thing is happening in both pictures (if we avoid all context). #bothsides Now go ahead and tell us why you think we need 4 more years of Trump. I’ve yet to hear any of you tell us why you are still in favor of this “leadership”. Why let libcucks like me have all the fun? Its funny how it looks like you tho. He got you good. A premade 4chan comic is so clever, too. What a biting commentary on the blinding hypocrisy of the ultra-leftist PD userbase. I'm triggered.
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Post by someonerandom on Jul 3, 2020 23:28:26 GMT -5
Omg I’m such a hypocrite! Clearly the exact same thing is happening in both pictures (if we avoid all context). #bothsides Now go ahead and tell us why you think we need 4 more years of Trump. I’ve yet to hear any of you tell us why you are still in favor of this “leadership”. Why let libcucks like me have all the fun? Its funny how it looks like you tho. He got you good. Lol I know right! I should do a comic of a potato trying to hit a bowl so that I can accurately capture the countenance of James.
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Post by James on Jul 3, 2020 23:41:56 GMT -5
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Post by darthoso on Jul 4, 2020 12:55:49 GMT -5
Putting yourself in the center of politics is comforting but I feel it is intellectually contradictory. Those in the center generally want this to calm down and return to a more normal "normal". That's fair, but the center has zero policy prescriptions that achieve that objective. The split in American politics, or more accurately the evacuation of the center, is a result of the failure of the center to offer policies that achieve any desirable outcome that releases the tension. The center is now occupied by those who are politically comfortable and feel they have something to lose if Left or Right is successful (economic if the Left wins, social if the Right wins. The center's failure to recognize the times is maddening since doing nothing just accelerates exactly what they fear. The Center is the Center's own worst enemy. I considered myself a moderate for years until I recognized the country was sick and that changes were needed to maintain political balance. My personal leaning towards FDR Progressivism is based on a historical record of what works to release the tension powering alternative political models, people forget the US had a legit Nazi movement too in the 30s. The 1990s are dead, welcome to the 1930s.
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