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Post by Braced4Impact on Jul 9, 2020 19:46:45 GMT -5
I know there are all sorts of levels of the spectrum PWD, BIID, Pretenders, etc. I was curious if any PWD would consider being with a dev who is also a pretender. I think in terms of the pretender, they would benefit a lot in being in a relationship with a PWD, as they might be able to use each others equipment or medical devices as needed, and the PWD would benefit for that interchangeable reason, and also because the pretender will gain an understanding of some of the difficulties of the PWD. For instance, let's say there's an obstacle in the house, the pretender would experience the same thing and perhaps find a way to fix it, etc. I dunno, maybe I'm just rambling but I wonder if any other PWDs would consider a relationship with a pretender. Would it be too weird, patronizing, or uncomfortable, or do you see some benefits?
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 20:17:15 GMT -5
I have no problem with pretenders as long as they are upfront about it. I know lots of Devs love using their partners equipment. I don't see there being any dramas.
At the end of the day it is all about the person
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 21:07:16 GMT -5
I would never consider a relationship with a pretender. I’m not accepting of it, so I wouldn’t date someone like that, I wouldn’t be friends with someone like that and I would let them know I disapprove.
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Post by devogirl on Jul 9, 2020 21:48:46 GMT -5
You're assuming pretenders go about pretending in rational ways and would value input from a real PWD. That's not always the case. People's erotic imagination is seldom rational. Sometimes the goal is to act out a specific fantasy. Sometimes the goal to be mistaken for and admired as a real PWD, which is why we have such problems here with pretenders targeting devs, but not targeting the PWDs here.
The wheeler guys I have known don't mind if a girlfriend sometimes messes around in their chair or tries it out, but in my mind, that's not at all the same thing as pretending.
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 22:27:34 GMT -5
I would never consider a relationship with a pretender. I’m not accepting of it, so I wouldn’t date someone like that, I wouldn’t be friends with someone like that and I would let them know I disapprove. I am not sure whether you are serious or not? If you are, where do you draw the line? Could you be friends with someone who is gay? What about Black? Maybe a cross dresser? Would you let them know you disapprove? |
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 22:57:46 GMT -5
I would never consider a relationship with a pretender. I’m not accepting of it, so I wouldn’t date someone like that, I wouldn’t be friends with someone like that and I would let them know I disapprove. I am not sure whether you are serious or not? If you are, where do you draw the line? Could you be friends with someone who is gay? What about Black? Maybe a cross dresser? Would you let them know you disapprove? Are you being serious? Are you really trying to equate me not being OK with someone faking a disability, taking resources from actual disabled people with me somehow being homophobic, transphobic and racist? Because I am none of those things |
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 23:02:25 GMT -5
I am not sure whether you are serious or not? If you are, where do you draw the line? Could you be friends with someone who is gay? What about Black? Maybe a cross dresser? Would you let them know you disapprove? Are you being serious? Are you really trying to equate me not being OK with someone faking a disability, taking resources from actual disabled people with me somehow being homophobic, transphobic and racist? Because I am none of those things So, just intolerant then? |
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 23:05:56 GMT -5
Are you being serious? Are you really trying to equate me not being OK with someone faking a disability, taking resources from actual disabled people with me somehow being homophobic, transphobic and racist? Because I am none of those things So, just intolerant then? Of able-bodied people pretending to be disabled, and going around deceiving others? Yes I am. |
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 23:10:11 GMT -5
But you are OK with a passable crossdresser deceiving people?
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 23:16:19 GMT -5
But you are OK with a passable crossdresser deceiving people? I’m assuming you mean a trans person, because cross-dressing and trans are not the same thing. The difference between a pretender, and a trans person is that a trans person generally isn’t taking from others as they live their life. A trans person isn’t going to take one of the few available wheelchair spots on a bus for instants, or wheelchair cab that a genuine disabled person needs. Also, a large majority of trans people don’t actually try to deceive everyone around them. They may not announce to every person everywhere that they are trans, but they will when it matters and it’s important. So yes, I’m perfectly OK with trans people. My only issue is with pretenders |
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 23:19:37 GMT -5
I never mentioned trans, I said crossdresser.
Someone who lives their life as a man and sometimes pretends to be a woman.
How about if the pretender has BIID? Do they need to disclose this to you? Or is their mental health their own issue?
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 23:24:58 GMT -5
I never mentioned trans, I said crossdresser. Someone who lives their life as a man and sometimes pretends to be a woman. How about if the pretender has BIID? Do they need to disclose this to you? Or is their mental health their own issue? A cross dresser isn’t trying to see if anybody in the first place. But to your question, BIID or not I’m not okay with pretending to be disabled in any way shape or form |
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Post by wonk on Jul 9, 2020 23:35:53 GMT -5
I never mentioned trans, I said crossdresser. Someone who lives their life as a man and sometimes pretends to be a woman. How about if the pretender has BIID? Do they need to disclose this to you? Or is their mental health their own issue? A cross dresser isn’t trying to see if anybody in the first place. But to your question, BIID or not I’m not okay with pretending to be disabled in any way shape or form 'It is unclear whether BIID is a form of human diversity or a mental disorder' If A: you are prepared to discriminate against someone transabled? Or B: what other mental disorders do you have a problem with? |
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Post by James on Jul 9, 2020 23:42:02 GMT -5
I’ll go with option C: I choose not to interact with pretenders In my personal life. And no, choosing not to deal with someone who pretends to be some thing that I struggle with every day, and would much rather not be is not discrimination. I would in no way try to prevent them from living their life, we’re doing their thing. They just won’t be a part of my life.
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Post by someonerandom on Jul 10, 2020 0:22:45 GMT -5
I think my opinion on the matter is somewhere between you two wonk and James. I think it is possible for pretending to be practiced in a way that is not disrespectful to PWD and does not take resources away, but I think pretending can also be a bad thing if it is taking resources away from PWD who need them. Dishonesty can also be a factor on the “bad” side of things. On an emotional level it squicks me out and I don’t like it, but logically I do wrestle with the notion of pretending and in some ways can see how it would not be harmful, so why care?
Like if a pretender buys a wheelchair with their own money, are they taking away from a PWD that doesn’t have one or has a shitty one? It’s the same thing as a rich guy buying a second car, while there is someone else who has to spend 1.5 hours on the bus taking transfers to get to work every day, standing out in the cold and the heat waiting. If we accept one we should accept the other.
As for whether or not I would date a pretender, I don’t know because I’ve never met one or even spoken to one that I know of. It depends on the individual. I could see it being possible, at the very least for a sexual encounter.
If we consider BIID a mental illness that causes distress and negative outcomes in someone’s life, normally we would prescribe something to help abate the symptoms of a mental illness. So I could also see it being treated this way with prescribing wheelchairs or crutches or something, like a transgender person being prescribed hormones.
Overall I find the subject of trans-anything to be a deep and winding moral grey area. I think a lot about transabled, transgender, and transracial in the context of cultural appropriation, and the similarities/differences between them as well as the varying levels of social acceptability each one has in society. Like if both race and gender are a social construct, and certain races and genders have historically been oppressed, why is one denigrated and the other accepted/celebrated by many people?
All I know is my trans friend was a woman when I met him, and now identifies as a man, so I just call him like that. I noticed it makes him feel good when I act extra “dudely” with him so I like to do that and make him happy.
Thanks bracey for making another thread to take us back to the reason we are all here— devoteeism and related subjects.
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