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Post by myrrh on Sept 20, 2020 10:37:30 GMT -5
Lmao how desperate are you to make this about right wing persecution, Manda2212? There's a Republican in the White House, a Republican-run Senate, and soon to be a Republican SCOTUS. Gosh you are so underrepresented and treated so unfairly. Not that I should dignify your weird attempted diversion, but Dani and I were pretty politically aligned. Salivating over a chance to turn this into far left domestic terrorism is, in your words, "not a good look" and subverts constructive conversation for your agenda.
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Post by Manda2212 on Sept 20, 2020 10:38:26 GMT -5
Oh okay, so we have both done that to each other. Glad it hasn't been just me!
IIRC, I apologized to you via PM for the hurtful things I have said. I am pretty sure the same cannot be said for the people in question now.
I may have said things I am not proud of but I have never intentionally followed people around attacking everything a member says repeatedly the way others here have. I have never caused someone to delete their account. I have had someone respond to every post I have made in a thread despite my never responding. That is tantamount to harassment IMO.
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Post by Manda2212 on Sept 20, 2020 10:39:23 GMT -5
Lmao how desperate are you to make this about right wing persecution, Manda2212? There's a Republican in the White House, a Republican-run Senate, and soon to be a Republican SCOTUS. Gosh you are so underrepresented and treated so unfairly. Not that I should dignify your weird attempted diversion, but Dani and I were pretty politically aligned. Salivating over a chance to turn this into far left domestic terrorism is, in your words, "not a good look" and subverts constructive conversation for your agenda. Constructive conversation? HA!
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Post by newjess on Sept 20, 2020 10:45:04 GMT -5
Manda2212 I did (and still do) appreciate when you reached out to me that particular time, but that wasn't even close to the only time this happened. And yes you absolutely did have me questioning being a member and feeling very uncomfortable on the board at times. Especially hurtful rhetoric you spewed about undocumented immigrants, considering my own mother (who is one of the best people I know in this world) was one at one point. I am just bringing this up to illustrate that this hasn't been a single sided issue. You and I are in FULL agreement that attacks should not be made, and I agree that following people around like that and attacking them is tantamount to harassment. It just really doesn't help things to turn this into yet another conflict on the board that divides people. I would love to work together to find a solution to this.
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Post by Manda2212 on Sept 20, 2020 11:16:40 GMT -5
I will agree to disagree on what is and what is not considered to be hateful rhetoric regarding people who choose to come to this country illegally.
I would love to see what it is that I wrote that was so offensive but all I can find is this: ” The American political left has decided to use the word "racist" to describe anyone who promotes secure borders, a process of assimilation for newly arrived immigrants and deportation for illegal immigrants."
To me that is not all that controversial.
It's pretty inconvenient that you are bringing something up that I cannot defend because there is no record of it. I will take your word for it though.
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Post by newjess on Sept 20, 2020 11:26:24 GMT -5
Manda2212 seems to me like if someone is hurt by members on the left, you rally behind them. But me vocalizing being hurt and feeling attacked by members on the right is not valid to you? I am not going to get into an argument with you about whether my feelings about this are valid or not, because we have fundamentally different ideas on what is "respectful" in an argument. You (and other members on the right) have said things that I found extremely disrespectful, but you don't think they are, and I'm really not trying to get into a debate about that at that moment. We have done this several times already. The point is that I am proof of concept that this has occurred from the other side. And I'm not the only one. You can choose whether or not you think its valid. Regardless, I would think the most important and effective thing would be for members to communicate to the mods the individuals they feel are attacking and harassing people.
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Post by Manda2212 on Sept 20, 2020 11:35:26 GMT -5
If I could see what I am apologizing for I would apologize as I have in the past.
I rally behind anyone who I feel has been wronged. I have rallied behind YOU on more than one occasion and when I know I have been out of line I have apologized. You have just testified to that.
I feel Dani was attacked unjustifiably and I will maintain that. Having an opinion that offends someone unintentionally is a lot different than PERSONALLY attacking someone, IMO.
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Post by myrrh on Sept 20, 2020 11:41:35 GMT -5
No, you're not the only one newjess. There was a string of incidents a while ago that left me so upset I nearly left as well. The singular reason I stayed was dave78 talking me down, repeatedly, with the patience of a saint. On a lighter note, that did leave me so upset that I went out and became a regular donator to Greenpeace. So at least some fish are getting protected now, or something.
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Post by newjess on Sept 20, 2020 11:46:09 GMT -5
Manda2212 I get where you're coming from and I'm not asking for an apology or to dredge up old arguments. My ONLY point in bringing any of this up was to just illustrate that this has happened on both sides. That I have felt these same feelings, and they were caused by members on the right. You've known me for years, so you can decide how you feel about the validity of my feelings on this. You are right also that me bringing up specific personal grievances from the past wasn't the best course of action either. I should have just shared that I have felt attacked and disrespected by members that align with the right on this board and left it at that. So I do apologize for that. You have rallied behind me and I have rallied behind you (and others on the right I felt were being bullied or treated unfairly), I completely agree with that and I very much appreciate that we've been able to put our differences aside and do that. I also completely agree that dani was treated unfairly, and that there have been individuals involved who do align with the left. I am not arguing against that at all. I just don't think that equates to this being a problem ONLY on the left, both on this board or in our current political climate. I VERY much disagree with that, and don't think it's particularly helpful to go there in this scenario. I agree that personal attacks/disrespect is different from unintentionally offending someone when giving an opinion, and being open to discussing it further and considering the feelings of the other person. This is also more complex and nuanced though, as some things can be seen as a personal attack from one party, but not from the other.
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Post by Dr. BiPAP Sachin on Sept 20, 2020 12:08:43 GMT -5
WTF does this have to do with politics? Grrr!!! Whoever attacked Dani is gonna have hell to pay, and that person will have to deal with ALL of us here face-to-face at PD. This tune illustrates exactly how I feel right now.
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on Sept 20, 2020 12:36:47 GMT -5
Dani,
I'm so sad to see you deleted your account. You are a really valuable member of PD and you have done so much to keep it alive (especially when people aren't posting much, or answering the questions of newcomers to the board).
You were one of the more frequent-posting devs on PD when I first joined early this year, and there's no doubt reading your posts (and posts from other actively participating devs) and wanting to be a part of the conversations you were a foundational part of, was a big factor in my decision to join PD. I'm certain other members feel the same way.
I have felt attacked here before too, and it took a little while before I had much inclination to post again. I think my inclination to post returned in part because I realized the majority of the people on the board did not think ill me (in actuality probably not even the people I felt were being uncharitable to me, at least not in a serious way beyond that disagreement). I really hope that you will come back after taking as long of a break from PD as you need. PD is a really special corner of the internet, even if things get out of hand sometimes, and it's so much better with you in it!
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Post by malibu on Sept 20, 2020 12:38:07 GMT -5
I hate to see Dani go! I can honestly understand, I would be very hurt too if I was in her shoes. Sometimes people want to say their opinion so badly that they can't see what it does to others. Nothing she said deserved the harsh tone. I miss many members that stopped posting (and yes, sometimes it's just the circumstances of their own life etc.). But it is not the case here, it was clearly something on the board that made her leave.
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Post by Corey on Sept 20, 2020 12:45:17 GMT -5
Anyway, it's heartbreaking to see her gone. Makes me sad to think that I might have contributed a little bit, although I hope she understood that I wasn't attacking her personally. I thought your post was very reasonable. It was a great example of how one can disagree but still be respectful of others opinion. Thanks for contributing to the discussion in a progressive way. Really sad to see Dani gone.
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Post by SouthernCalGal on Sept 20, 2020 13:31:37 GMT -5
Dani was the first dev I came across when I figured that “this” was something that actually had a name, that there were more people like me and that there was actually a gathering spot for devs and PWDs. I remember reading her stuff and I began to feel a little more comfortable in my skin. I’m sad to see her get so frustrated to actually delete and walk away. Hoping she will be back...😢
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Post by Amee on Sept 20, 2020 13:41:09 GMT -5
Don't lose sight of the fact that she posted a free days ago in the mental health thread: "I feel like I'm constantly battling against melancholy, anger, rage, fear, anxiety, frustration and deep sadness. I am on the edge a lot and I go off for nothing, actually just yesterday at my son, the day before at my husband, even at work a few weeks ago and my boss even asked what is going on with me." This sucks, but trying to say it's because of big bad social justice warriors is missing soooo much of the issue. She's having a hard time right now. At home, at work, and now online too. Hopefully she'll take some time off, calm down, and we'll see her agaim some day. Maybe it would've been a good idea for us to not lose sight of that while arguing with her. Maybe it would've been a good idea to remember that before telling her not to be a baby. Maybe when reading this thread, it would have been a good idea to remember what you quoted there, take a step back from the arguing and just show some kindness, rather than reprimanding her for the "disturbance" of putting personal grievances centre stage. After she already wrote that she's crying, because she feels so hurt. I think she's also stated several times that all this division is at least part of what caused her anxiety and sadness. So it's not absurd to think that PD becoming a little overly hostile to differing opinions could have contributed to that.
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