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Post by LaMara on Oct 13, 2020 8:55:30 GMT -5
I've been struggling for a while with my sexual orientation and where being a dev fits in it, or if it fits at all.
In the last few years I figured out I'm almost certainly asexual and also likely aromantic (lack of romantic attraction).
My relationships always felt forced, like something that I "had" to do because everybody does it and isn't that the only way to be happy?
I even dated a PWD once and it didn't work out, I was still afraid and averse to sex and the romantic feelings evaporated within weeks.
I know I'm asexual towards most people (as in, I feel no sexual attraction and I cannot even imagine myself being intimate) but I do have a libido and I do fantasize about stuff, mostly very abstract stuff that I wouldn't be interested in in real life. According to other asexuals and to the official definition, I still "qualify" because being ace doesn't mean not having a libido, just not really wanting to have partnered sex.
But then, am I actually a dev? I do feel some kind of strong attraction to PWDs, and although it's 99% non sexual, there is a sexual element in it, but... I don't think I would ever want to actually have a relationship with a PWD. I have spent hours and hours imagining an idealized relationship, but knowing that it would never happen irl. I just wouldn't enjoy it.
I feel like I'm in a limbo where I have feelings that closely resemble those of a dev but at the same time I will never truly be a dev if I'm unwilling to ever have a relationship with a PWD, and not because of reasons other devs bring up sometimes, like being already in a relationship with an AB person, not finding The One, not wanting to be a carer etc...
Am I a dev if I only like imagining a relationship with a PWD?
I was recently chatting (out of PD) with a PWD that kind of accused me of "leading people on" on this board if I say I'm a dev but not willing to do anything tangible about it, and it made me feel like s**t. Every time I receive the mildest amount of flirtation from a PWD (or any man, in general, actually), I freeze up and want to run away and disappear, because actual relationships terrify me and any hint of sexy talk makes me want to move to Mars.
PD made me feel better about myself when I discovered it many years ago, but now I feel like a fraud, like I'm not "dev enough".
I'm sorry for the long ramble but I've been particularly depressed and preoccupied with this stuff lately.
I even brought it up in the past if I remember well and you folks were really nice about it. Idk. I'm just paranoid and in a really low place.
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Post by devogirl on Oct 13, 2020 9:05:21 GMT -5
I was recently chatting (out of PD) with a PWD that kind of accused me of "leading people on" on this board if I say I'm a dev but not willing to do anything tangible about it, and it made me feel like s**t. Every time I receive the mildest amount of flirtation from a PWD (or any man, in general, actually), I freeze up and want to run away and disappear, because actual relationships terrify me and any hint of sexy talk makes me want to move to Mars. PD made me feel better about myself when I discovered it many years ago, but now I feel like a fraud, like I'm not "dev enough".
Fuck that guy! Seriously, what a messed up, shitty, condescending thing to say to you! His reaction stems from entitlement, feeling that devs owe him sex. Or if not him personally, that we have to have sex with a PWD to be "real" devs. That is so not true! There are so many devs on this site who have never and will never have sex with a PWD in real life, for a variety of reasons. All of those reasons are valid, and don't make them not devs.
You are not a fraud! You are definitely dev enough. Please don't let that one guy determine how you feel about yourself. You don't have to prove yourself to anyone.
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Post by LaMara on Oct 13, 2020 9:27:04 GMT -5
I mean, I was aware the guy was trying to gaslight me. I had those doubts before the conversation, and I think probably this person took advantage of it.
Even if I ignore one person's stupid entitlement, I still feel like I live suspended between two worlds without really belonging to either.
Unfortunately, I always felt like I have to prove myself to others/have other people's approval. I'm working on it, though.
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Post by newjess on Oct 13, 2020 12:03:46 GMT -5
LaMara , I can relate to so much of what you're feeling. Throughout my life I have struggled with these feelings that I don't "fit" into these sort of defined spaces. My sex drive/desires have been a big one too. After too many years of feeling that I was just inadequate or something was "wrong" with me, I finally (thankfully) came to understand myself better and what it all means for me. I too have struggled immensely with that feeling like I had to prove myself or have others' approval, but have also come a long way (though of course it is still a work in progress). I am sorry that person said those things to you. He was obviously, completely in the wrong. I think it is really awesome that you are able to recognize like, yeah that person was an asshole and was gaslighting me, but I also totally get it definitely doesn't help the situation when you are already struggling. For me, I am gray and demi. I have to really build trust and emotional connection before I can even entertain the idea of sex and romance. So often I find that people jump very quickly into sexy talk, sending nudes, romantic expectations, etc and this just makes me want to run away, like full on "flight" response. I have learned how to just be very upfront about it, and that if that doesn't align with what they are interested in, then we're just not a match. Though, of course, still after being upfront about this I get the entitled men that still try to push it. Sadly I used to fall into it, even if I didn't feel totally comfortable, but now I'm much more likely to just be like... yeeeaah no, not happening. I am also just incredibly particular about all the things that need to align for me to feel sexually attracted and want to actively have sex with a person. If those things do align (which is exceedingly rare), I can definitely enjoy having sex regularly with that person. But I also would honestly be totally fine if I never had sex again. I do very much enjoy physical affection, but the actual act of sex is something that I just don't really... need. I also immediately shut down if I feel pressured at all, if the emotional connection is strained, etc. To bring this back to your post, like you, I definitely have a libido and also fantasize about abstract stuff too. I've known people who are ace that have full on kinks, fetishes, fantasies, etc.. but don't have the desire for partnered sex like you are saying. I also feel that being a dev is such a multi-faceted thing, and it is so unique to each person. For some, it is highly sexual, for some it is romantic and intimate, there are those that have the feeling of being drawn to PWDs but not necessarily in a sexual way, for some it is fantasy, and of course can be any mix of these things as well. I guess to me... what we share is that PWDs spark something in us. You are definitely not a fraud. If anything, you are one of the devs that really helped me find my own path, just by being here and being a person out there in the world that understood. I am so appreciative for that <3
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Post by LaMara on Oct 13, 2020 12:20:56 GMT -5
Thank you newjess, it's good to hear I'm not alone. I have considered the possibility of being in the grey or demi areas but the more I examine my feelings the more I understand that's more wishful thinking than anything else. I think by this point I made my peace with being ace but I'm still almost "grieving" the aromantic side of things: I always thought of myself as a very romantic person, I enjoy reading about a bit of romance (maybe not full blown romantic novels, but a nice love subplot, especially when involving a PWD) and imagining the perfect romantic life with the perfect partner. I think I was sold really hard on the idea that romantic love is the most beautiful and important thing of all. It will take some time to accept that I'm still going to be happy even if I never feel that kind of love. A part of me still hopes that I might be grey-romantic, and that a romantic relationship with a PWD might still be possible because that's still my main source of interest and aesthetic attraction, but honestly, I don't think it's a realistic hope. I'm 35 and I have never fallen in love, I have never felt anything stronger than a deep platonic friendship and things like holding hands and cuddling make me uncomfortable really fast. I'm relieved that this place is so accepting, loving and open minded, I should have never doubted that my fellow devs would understand and make me feel welcome. Thank you so much for your words!!! |
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on Oct 13, 2020 12:30:32 GMT -5
Wow, that guy is an asshole! I'm curious if you or newjess have ever read anything about attachment theory (re. adults)? The way you describe your feelings and experiences sounds a lot like how people I know who identify as having an avoidant attachment style describe theirs. |
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Post by LaMara on Oct 13, 2020 13:41:11 GMT -5
I'm not an expert about attachment theory though I read a little about it.
I think it's dangerous to equate asexuality to any personality type or disorder, it's a recognised and valid sexual orientation. Let's not forget that not so long ago gay people were told they might have been made gay by trauma or by bad parenting...
Asexuals don't necessarily have unresolved trauma, or have been assaulted, or have hormonal issues like a lot of people think.
I'd rather think it makes sense that human sexuality is a spectrum, if it's possible for some people to be attracted to all genders, why not the opposite too?
I don't want to sound harsh but in the past I had to argue with people who thought I was a dev because of some kind of trauma. This is kind of a similar situation, I'm just starting to accept my sexual orientation as valid and I get a little piqued when it's put in question.
Edit: I gave a quick look over avoidant attachment in adults and it seems from what I read that an adult with avoidant personality might have issues with the emotional side of relationships, like anxious-avoidant people might stay in an unhappy relationship longer (that's actually probably my case) and dismissive-avoidant might prefer no strings attached kind of relationships. it doesn't say anywhere that an avoidant personality has any influence on sexual or romantic orientation.
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on Oct 13, 2020 14:15:44 GMT -5
I'm not an expert about attachment theory though I read a little about it. I think it's dangerous to equate asexuality to any personality type or disorder, it's a recognised and valid sexual orientation. Let's not forget that not so long ago gay people were told they might have been made gay by trauma or by bad parenting... Asexuals don't necessarily have unresolved trauma, or have been assaulted, or have hormonal issues like a lot of people think. I'd rather think it makes sense that human sexuality is a spectrum, if it's possible for some people to be attracted to all genders, why not the opposite too? I don't want to sound harsh but in the past I had to argue with people who thought I was a dev because of some kind of trauma. This is kind of a similar situation, I'm just starting to accept my sexual orientation as valid and I get a little piqued when it's put in question. Edit: I gave a quick look over avoidant attachment in adults and it seems from what I read that an adult with avoidant personality might have issues with the emotional side of relationships, like anxious-avoidant people might stay in an unhappy relationship longer (that's actually probably my case) and dismissive-avoidant might prefer no strings attached kind of relationships. it doesn't say anywhere that an avoidant personality has any influence on sexual or romantic orientation. I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to question the validity of your orientation or identity or anything like that. Your experiences just sounded like what some psychology people I know were talking about with respect to avoidant attachment styles and their own experiences. From what I understand attachment styles are not thought to be disorders, or necessarily resulting from some kind of trauma. Some people give evolutionary explanations for it. In general the reasons for different attachment styles is an open question. But anyway, again, I'm really sorry. And I'm sorry you're going through a tough time right now with this stuff. |
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Post by LaMara on Oct 13, 2020 14:23:39 GMT -5
I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to question the validity of your orientation or identity or anything like that. Your experiences just sounded like what some psychology people I know were talking about with respect to avoidant attachment styles and their own experiences. From what I understand attachment styles are not thought to be disorders, or necessarily resulting from some kind of trauma. Some people give evolutionary explanations for it. In general the reasons for different attachment styles is an open question. But anyway, again, I'm really sorry. And I'm sorry you're going through a tough time right now with this stuff. Don't apologise, I definitely overreacted, I'm being a little on edge about this whole thing. I'm pretty sure I do have a bit of an anxious-avoidant attachment style, I always tend to think people don't like or appreciate me as much as I appreciate them, and I worry a lot about their opinions, which is why I stayed in relationships that were obviously making me miserable for way too long. I think it contributed to my late acceptance of my asexuality, because I worried way too much about society's expectations (and I still do, to a degree). |
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Post by ContingentlyComposite on Oct 13, 2020 14:56:50 GMT -5
I understand being on edge. I wish I had something helpful to add. I'm sorry you're going through this now, especially during these super fun pandemic times. I've often wondered about my own attachment style, but I also think it's one of those things that's easy to project onto yourself, or to find evidence for scanning over relationship history/experience, when the reality is there's just no real way to know one way or the other. I think attachment theory helped me realize my really strong desire for intense intimacy with a partner and my need for certain reassurances from a partner were okay and normal, even if I still don't know what to think about my own attachment style. It's so hard not to let societal expectations get under your skin. I grew up in a place where people tend to marry fairly young. Even though I am totally okay with the fact that I'm 31 and still not married, I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel the pressure, if I said it didn't make me feel bad when family members look at me like there's something wrong with me when I tell them I'm dating yet another guy. I know that's totally different from what you're talking about here, but that's my attempt at expressing some kind of solidarity.. or something like that.  |
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Post by devogirl on Oct 13, 2020 20:53:50 GMT -5
LaMara I'm so sorry you're going through all this. And I'm sorry I don't have more constructive advice. I don't really know much about ace. But I always appreciate your posts here and it makes me sad to see you feel you don't fully belong. You can definitely be a dev and ace at the same time, and I hope you are able to get to a place of self-acceptance. Have you tried talking to a sex-positive therapist who has experience with less well known orientations?
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Post by mona on Oct 14, 2020 5:05:29 GMT -5
LaMara, I think I can relate. I also often wonder whether I really belong into this dev category because so much that people talk about here is not part of my experience. I have also been wondering for a while whether I am asexual. The reason was simply that someone else suggested it. At that time, I was rather confused about my sexual needs and I think being a fresh mother and a lot of sleepness nights didn't contribute to my sex drive. I was looking for an explanation for being so "dysfunctional" (that's what I felt like) and there was one. It sometimes helps to find a word you can identify with. But the word can also hinder you from looking at what you really are - regardless of all the labels, the criteria you must fulfill or the expectations that other people impose on you. All I want to say it: You are okay just the way you are. It sounds banal but it is so important to repeat it to yourself. "Stay away from toxic people" is another mantra. And I think that person you mention in your OP belongs to that category. Edit: I used a false tense above. When I felt I could be somewhere on the asexual spectrum was about five to ten years ago and I don't feel like that anymore.
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Post by devogirl on Oct 14, 2020 6:07:35 GMT -5
I think being a fresh mother and a lot of sleepness nights didn't contribute to my sex drive.
OMG!!! Don't make any big decisions while you're in that new baby sleepless state. Having kids completely tanked my sex drive for about FOUR YEARS. I mean, you might also be asexual. But not wanting sex after having a baby is totally normal and not a reason to feel dysfunctional. Even now my kids are almost six and there are still times when dealing with their nonsense kills my dev high. It takes a long time to get back to sexy times when the kids are little.
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Post by LaMara on Oct 14, 2020 6:20:56 GMT -5
LaMara I'm so sorry you're going through all this. And I'm sorry I don't have more constructive advice. I don't really know much about ace. But I always appreciate your posts here and it makes me sad to see you feel you don't fully belong. You can definitely be a dev and ace at the same time, and I hope you are able to get to a place of self-acceptance. Have you tried talking to a sex-positive therapist who has experience with less well known orientations? Talking about it openly here with you guys has already helped a lot. I had a plan to see a therapist and maybe bring all of this up back in February, then the Apocalypse started and I used my therapy sessions to address anxiety due to lockdown and all that. In the UK I can fairly easily get free therapy through National Health, but it's not the kind of deep and complex therapy I should probably get, and at the moment I'm so busy with work and health issues that I don't have the energy, the time and probably also the money to go to a private therapist. I'm also kinda worried because I had a very bad experience with the last private therapist I went to, though that was well over 10 years ago and in a different country. I have never mentioned being a dev to a therapist. I'm so afraid of their response, especially if combined with the asexuality aspect. But if I don't start to accept all this stuff on my own I guess eventually therapy will be the way to go. |
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Post by devogirl on Oct 14, 2020 7:19:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a therapist. But there are therapists out there who know about asexuality and can speak to that specifically. Devs are much more rare but any decent sex positive therapist should be ok with it. If not, see someone else! If you can't trust the therapist to understand devs and asexuality, that person will not be able to help you. Treat it like you are interviewing them for a job, not like a date. Tell them from the start you are a dev, even before starting the first session. In the US, this organization is the place to start looking for someone who will not judge you for being a dev: www.kapprofessionals.org/I think it includes some international listings. This site is specifically for the UK: www.pinktherapy.com/en-gb/findatherapist.aspxYou can search specifically for therapists who specialize in asexuality. |
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