"Bad" representation or none at all?

[kat]

I had this thought after reading an article about Doctor Who and how they're changing a classic villain character to no longer have a disability because they want to avoid the long-standing trope of evil disabled villains. I thought this was interesting because the intention is obviously good, but rewriting characters like this does also lead to having less disability representation period.

So here's a hypothetical question to devs and PWDs alike - if you could choose between having more disabled characters in movies and TV, but it was all "bad" (i.e. tired old tropes and cliches), or having no representation at all, which one would you choose?

[Braced4Impact]

So, hot take here. Peter Dinklage spoke up about little people being portrayed as "dwarfs" in the upcoming Disney Snow White movie. I won't touch that debacle with a ten foot pole, but what I find interesting is, Dinklage thought he was doing the right thing, speaking from his high horse about little people, and Disney ended up cutting the roles for seven little people. That's seven people he put out of work because he had to open his mouth. While I would like to see more disabled protagonists in general, I also understand that there's already relatively limited work for those who are PWD stars. Granted, if they're just using an AB actor and giving them prosthesis to appear disabled for the movie, that is doubly negative, as it portrays PWDs as the bad guys while not giving any real PWDs work. I think, if they do use a disabled bad guy, use a real one. There are of course some heroic or positive PWDs in culture, like Prof. X, Daredevil, etc. It'd be cooler to see them outside of superhero roles, like a romcom or a spy thriller, etc. I guess House comes to mind, but he's more of anti-hero curmudgeon (relatable ) but yeah I get what you're saying, Kat.

[kat]

Nov 18, 2023 17:50:20 GMT -5 Braced4Impact said:

So, hot take here. Peter Dinklage spoke up about little people being portrayed as "dwarfs" in the upcoming Disney Snow White movie. I won't touch that debacle with a ten foot pole, but what I find interesting is, Dinklage thought he was doing the right thing, speaking from his high horse about little people, and Disney ended up cutting the roles for seven little people. That's seven people he put out of work because he had to open his mouth.

I'd forgotten all about the Peter Dinklage thing, and you're right, that serves as a good example as well. It's true that there are probably some PWD actors out there who would rather have a role in something a little antiquated than not have any work at all.

[mrnobody]

Nov 18, 2023 14:21:50 GMT -5 kat said:

I had this thought after reading an article about Doctor Who and how they're changing a classic villain character to no longer have a disability because they want to avoid the long-standing trope of evil disabled villains. I thought this was interesting because the intention is obviously good, but rewriting characters like this does also lead to having less disability representation period.

So here's a hypothetical question to devs and PWDs alike - if you could choose between having more disabled characters in movies and TV, but it was all "bad" (i.e. tired old tropes and cliches), or having no representation at all, which one would you choose?

A job is a job. Unfortunately i dont think we are anywhere close to seeing an actual pwd in any leading acting roles. Possibly some random small budget independent stuff. Im also not a fan of this thing going on in hollywood where a straight person cant play a gay person now and other such nonsense. Its called acting for a reason. I even think its ok for an able bodied actor to play a pwd role if said actor is the best choice for the role. Sometimes if you have a role where a person is say paralyzed you may want to film some flashbacks to before the injury and in cases like that you have to cast an able bodied person because it makes things easier and far cheaper than using spfx. The recent thing with not having dwarfs played by little people is really, really strange to me and is the kiss of death to any success that film hoped to have.  

[PacMan]

The best example of always portraying a PWD as the bad guy is good old 007 himself James Bond. Nearly every villain that has been the bad guy in James Bond movies has nearly all had some sort of facial disfigurement, a limb missing or has a limp and walks with a cane or a stick.

Personally I’m sick of this, I want this negative representation of disabled people to stop. All this type of portrayal does is re-enforce this notion that all people with disabilities are evil, that they are not to be trusted, that somehow because of their disability its caused them to lash-out at the world and somehow seek revenge for their impairment.

Take for example one of the greatest comedy movies of all time ‘Dr. Strangelove’ played by Peter Sellers is a wheelchair user. However in the case of Dr. Strangelove Kubrick brilliantly satirises that the bad guy in the movie has to have in some way have or be disabled.

[Sir Paul]

I don't feel like it's done in a malicious way. At least mostly not. Film is an artform and symbolism is a big part of the storytelling process. One angle on "disabled" villains is that films have about 2 hours to tell a story. Most of this time is allotted to the audience getting to know the protagonist, leaving very little time dive into the villain's character. Giving them a scar or an affliction shows a sort of outward representation of their damaged internal psyche. We instantly, unconsciously understand that there's a depth to this person. It creates a bit of intrigue. I'll always argue that villains are often the most interesting characters in a movie and most actors will say the same thing. You COULD view it as a "trope" and a lazy way to give the villain motivation, but that the simplest take. Granted, some movies and shows do take the easy way out by making the disability the centerpiece of a bad guy's grievances, but those are probably trash anyways.

That's a hell of a scenario, Kat I think any kind of disability representation is positive, except for FORCED representation. So, in your dystopian alternate reality where disabled people are only allowed to play antagonists, I'm all for us kicking some hero ass!

[kat]

Dec 2, 2023 21:12:52 GMT -5 mrnobody said:

Im also not a fan of this thing going on in hollywood where a straight person cant play a gay person now and other such nonsense. Its called acting for a reason. I even think its ok for an able bodied actor to play a pwd role if said actor is the best choice for the role.

I agree. I would like to see more minority actors break into the business, but I also don't think every single minority role has to go to a person representing that group IRL.

Dec 5, 2023 21:02:08 GMT -5 PacMan said:

All this type of portrayal does is re-enforce this notion that all people with disabilities are evil, that they are not to be trusted, that somehow because of their disability its caused them to lash-out at the world and somehow seek revenge for their impairment.

Yeah, there's definitely an enduring thread of bitterness in disabled villains. The world has done them wrong, so they must take revenge on it. Interestingly enough, I don't think I've ever seen a plot that then actually explores this theme and the villain's psyche deeper. It would be interesting to see the villain character humanized more often.

Dec 6, 2023 20:53:10 GMT -5 Sir Paul said:

I don't feel like it's done in a malicious way. At least mostly not. Film is an artform and symbolism is a big part of the storytelling process. One angle on "disabled" villains is that films have about 2 hours to tell a story. Most of this time is allotted to the audience getting to know the protagonist, leaving very little time dive into the villain's character. Giving them a scar or an affliction shows a sort of outward representation of their damaged internal psyche.

This is a really good point. Now that I think of it, "externalizing" evil and representing it physically is really common in Hollywood. The bad guys have to look like baddies so that the audience identifies them and understands their role. If only all the real life bad guys were as easily identifiable...