Another bad dev ruining things

[ruthmadison]

Here's another girl having a horrible experience and telling everyone what creeps devs are:

jenlongdon.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/finding-my-voice/

Sigh.

[devine]

Ruth, thank you so much for spreading the word and standing up for us.

[ruthmadison]

If you can believe it, it was the "disability trolls" blog guy who pointed this out to me. I'm glad he did so I had the chance to add my voice.

[Deleted]

The replies on there are pretty scary, the vitriol against devs with no realisation that all devs are not like the one she encountered. I think you were pretty brave to throw your ore in Ruth. It just makes me all the more glad that we have a site like this with really cool and understanding wheelers.

[nocturnaldev]

This thread brought me out of lurker status. This exactly why I struggle so much with my devness. Thanks Ruth, for stepping up and standing tall for those of us who aren't sociopaths, creepy pervs. Sometimes it's so challenging dealing with these feelings and desires, without having to be cast out as even more of a freak (I know we're not, but it can sure feel that way sometimes). Thanks again, Ruth - and all the great people here @ PD. It's nice having a "safe" place to get it all out.

[alf]

I spent just about half a minute looking at the rest of this girl’s blog and it occurred to me that my initial assumption about this issue was spot on.

The issue here is not so much the fact that ‘another bad dev’ has ruined ‘things’ for this girl or for any other disabled person. The real issue for her is her view of herself and the accompanying low self esteem.

Her very first post is about how she refuses to accept her life with SCI and if such an utter self denial is the premise for her life how will she ever accept the fact that there are people who are attracted to her for exactly that reason? How can any of us get into our heads that there are people out there who like us for the thing we most despise about ourselves? The prime example being (perceived or actual) fat people who will accept those who are into them for being fat.

If there is no acceptance of things the way they are there will be no room for understanding. Therefore those of you who are trying to create understanding between people in denial of their disability and devs are barking up the wrong tree.

I certainly think there are many devs who give devs a bad name. I am also of the impression that many of them are not the outright creepy ones that everybody on this board agree are scum of the earth – just remember that you are preaching to the choir here.

No, I am talking about people who are prolific posters on this board who by their actions and the way they present themselves do more harm to devs than they do good. I also know there is nothing I can do to stop them except trying to add my 2 cents whenever I feel the need and to tell the disabled people I meet what I feel about the whole dev phenomenon, despite the (many) ones that I don't like for more personal reasons - and not because they are devs!

But when it comes to the girl who wrote the blog post Ruth is referring to, I feel sorry for her for not being able to accept who she is. She is most likely going to have a miserable life because of it and I understand her need to blame devs for much of that misery.

[ruthmadison]

I noticed that too, Alf. I went back and read just a handful of her posts and I wasn't sure what to make of the Hope v.s. Denial thing.

NocturnalDev, so glad to see you here! I am always trying to let people know about the good devs, but there are times when it's exhausting!

I saw this post this morning and I just started crying. I get so bone-weary tired of the same old assumptions being made about us.

But then I pull myself together and just keep on talking and trying to be a good person, live by example, etc.

[janewheeler]

I'm curious, Alf... to what kinds of actions are you referring?

One fundamental difference between what the blogger describes and what goes on here is that for the most part, we're trying to build connections between devs and disabled people. It's not always perfect, but it can go a long way towards seeing each other as people instead of an "it" or a disability.

I just like the fact that I can say things like "What would Mike or b4i or mrbb think about this?" instead of trying to imagine abstract ideas or pick things up from the web. I'm really glad that the people I've interacted with have been so kind, and I hope I can somehow return the favor.

[brace4impact]

Well since I was asked I'll say this. A: I can't blame the poor girl's response based on what that jackass did to her, but knowing the devs I know, it's certainly not an accurate description of 99% of them. I think one thing that may be controversial but it's been playing on my mind for a while is the word "devotee." Honestly, I don't like it. It almost has a psychotic sound to it. I know, I know, one who has no problem being called crippled or gimpy shouldn't be casting stones in terms of the semantics game, but I just think the word is a determent to the devs I know. I'm surprised the word "admirer" has almost no mention on this site, as I think it's a more apt description. When I think of a "devotee" the word seems to be taken at face value-someone who devotes all their time to the quest for a disabled person. I know most of you live fulfilling, active lives, and aren't spending every waking hour crying over a candle-adorned shrine of a wheelchair So, controversial as it may sound, I just think the name takes away from y'all.

[alf]

Sept 24, 2012 23:17:11 GMT -5 janewheeler said:

I'm curious, Alf... to what kinds of actions are you referring?

I was trying to avoid pointing the finger at anyone but I guess I sort of asked for it by putting my opinion out there. IMHO there’s an extremely broad spectrum of devs, both on this board and out in the world (yes, I’ve known a few in my life – I guess I’ve been around ) and therefore I am wary of those who think they are typical representatives for devs (or for cripples for that sake) I am not the ‘preaching’ type and I become very vigilant when someone else is. Now, I will not shame anyone I know here by mentioning their name and I also think everyone can do what they want as long as I have the right to my opinion as well.

So instead of bashing devs on this board let me tell you about one of my pet peeves at the moment. I absolutely despise a guy like Nick Vujicic who thinks he’s the über cripple. I just wanna pull a tight plastic bag down over him and drop him in the middle of the ocean. I know a lot of you devs are crazy about him but to me he’s a bloated, blubbering idiot. I could mention at least 10 disabled guys (even on this board) whom I have way more respect for, living their quiet lives and managing it way better than this over-compensating fool. (Sorry, but you asked, Jane )

I really appreciate what we have going on here and I revel in the creation of all kinds of relationships that are the result of this board. And I really treasure getting to know the inner workings of my dev friends just like I love to share my thought on things they are asking me. So I really agree on the idea of building connections, I just think there are some who are too indiscriminate about who they are trying to convince.

[alf]

Sept 24, 2012 23:47:10 GMT -5 @brace4impact said:

Well since I was asked I'll say this. A: I can't blame the poor girl's response based on what that jackass did to her, but knowing the devs I know, it's certainly not an accurate description of 99% of them.

Thank you b4i. I find it kind of odd that it is 2 of the guys who have some compassion for this poor girl - I know b4i and yours truly are amongst the most sensible of the guys on the board ;D ...but still! C'mon girls, where's your (in)famous compassion?

Sept 24, 2012 23:47:10 GMT -5 @brace4impact said:

I think one thing that may be controversial but it's been playing on my mind for a while is the word "devotee." Honestly, I don't like it. It almost has a psychotic sound to it. I know, I know, one who has no problem being called crippled or gimpy shouldn't be casting stones in terms of the semantics game, but I just think the word is a determent to the devs I know. I'm surprised the word "admirer" has almost no mention on this site, as I think it's a more apt description. When I think of a "devotee" the word seems to be taken at face value-someone who devotes all their time to the quest for a disabled person. I know most of you live fulfilling, active lives, and aren't spending every waking hour crying over a candle-adorned shrine of a wheelchair So, controversial as it may sound, I just think the name takes away from y'all.

Now, when it comes to the name 'devotee' I really don't like it either, it has way too religious connotations. I actually also use 'admirer' a lot, especially when people ask me about this board I always reply: "It's a message board for male disabled and their admirers" and most people take that at face value. Of course some ask clarifying questions but a lot don't.

[Inigo Montoya]

Sept 24, 2012 23:47:10 GMT -5 @brace4impact said:

I know most of you live fulfilling, active lives, and aren't spending every waking hour crying over a candle-adorned shrine of a wheelchair

I'm so glad you've not yet found my shrine. Bahahahahaha! ;D

Sept 25, 2012 4:06:09 GMT -5 alf said:

Sept 24, 2012 23:47:10 GMT -5 @brace4impact said:

Well since I was asked I'll say this. A: I can't blame the poor girl's response based on what that jackass did to her, but knowing the devs I know, it's certainly not an accurate description of 99% of them.

Thank you b4i. I find it kind of odd that it is 2 of the guys who have some compassion for this poor girl - I know b4i and yours truly are amongst the most sensible of the guys on the board ;D ...but still! C'mon girls, where's your (in)famous compassion?

I'll be honest, I went over there thinking I might post and back ruth up for once (I'm not much of a fighter/defender)... but when I got to the comment about the person who'd commented on her stolen pictures, "It has nice feet." Jesus! That made me cringe! What the hell can you say??? Honestly, that makes me think of the serial killer in the Silence of the Lambs. How the hell can it not? "It puts the lotion on it's skin." I'd certainly be terrified if I saw someone say something like that about my picture. I'd be adding locks to the doors and buying a gun. And possibly hiding under the covers waiting on the guy. That makes me nauseous. That dev stripped her of her personhood. I've done some objectification in my time, but there's always an awareness that there's a person behind what I see. Did this guy not have a mama? How many men see women this way? Completely as objects? Things? Is that why some of the guys get so wound up about being objectified? Is that how THEY see women?

And some random guy showing up at her door. Then the guy in the grocery store... I mean, who the hell acts like that? And in public? And then she gets hit with one of our internet pretender friends. We're all familiar with that crap and how damaging it is. And some other guy anticipating the amputations of her legs... yeah, she's got every right to hate us based on those interactions.

If I can think of something to say I may go back. But again, what CAN you say??? I think Ruth did a decent job, but she's got every right to write about this stuff on her blog. The fact is that no one deserves that kind of treatment and people who do sh*t like she's experienced make me embarrassed to be called dev. There are people in all walks of life who are just awful, just sh*t.

And these guys get around. LOTS! We don't talk about it a whole lot here. We mostly concentrate on more positive stuff. But, Lord, I AM sorry for her experiences. Were these men raised by wolves? Why didn't their parents, friends and family teach them how to act like real people?

As for the word, devotee. I think it is a little confusing because those people who are highly religious are often called devotees. But I don't like it any better or worse than admirer. It's only a word and I can't think of a better one. I actually like how it can be shortened to dev... can't do that with admirer. Adm? Can y'all come up with a better word?

[Enid]

Honestly, I think these guys get too much publicity. They're creeps. They come in different packages and like different types of women, but it's all the same shit: Creeps.

As far as I'm concerned dev means "likes people with disabilities" (in a romantic/sexual sense). Not all straight males are creeps. Neither are all devs. It defines attraction, not how we act on it.

"Admirer" makes me think of somebody watching from afar. I don't like it. Although I usually stick to "I like guys in wheelchairs" anyway.

[ruthmadison]

I think I showed a lot of compassion in my comments at her site. This thread is not for her consumption. I'm disgusted by what she experienced.

I don't know what it is in me that wants to fight this battle. Whatever Quixote had, I have it too. That same madness.

I want to say thanks for those who joined me in commenting at the blog. It's awesome to feel like I'm not alone in this crusade. I'm sorry if it makes no sense to some that I continue to battle this. I can't explain but I've always felt a strong need to do it. My mother always says she is a private person. I am definitely not. I hate that when I was growing up, I was made to feel evil because of this thing. I want to prevent that from happening to younger devs.

As far as the words...I've said before I hate all of them. I think "admirer" and "devotee" are equally skeevy. I HATE them. However, it is the word for what I am. When someone says "Devotees are such creeps" I do take that personally. Because they are saying "People who are attracted to disabled people are such creeps." They are not saying, "This guy who pretends to be disabled in order to get pictures from me is a creep." They throw this huge net out to say anyone with this attraction is bad.

I wouldn't mind finding a better word that we all can call ourselves. There's enough of us we might be able to get it catching on. A word that means those who are respectful in the expression of their attraction? I don't know. Sigh. I'm not *that* different from the creepy devs. I think education is about the only thing that makes me different. Well, that and the not being raised by wolves thing.

I use the word "dev" instead of "devotee" most of the time. "Admirer" doesn't have a way of shortening it into a word that no longer has the connotations of slavish desire.

[nocturnaldev]

I do feel for her, in that no one should ever be made to feel that uncomfortable, that vulnerable. What happened to her should not have - but there are a few bad seeds in every crop. We all seem to be lumped into one category or another. What upsets me the most is her desire to not be labeled, to not be called "it" (and I agree with here, none of us are "its"), but she is so quick to label all devs as creeps. Perhaps she doesn't realize in her frustration that she is doing the same thing to us. Personally, I think that her being called "it" is just as bad as saying that devs as a whole are creeps. It's so frustrating to be labeled, let alone incorrectly. I'm sorry that she had a terrible experience, but that doesn't make it my fault, and I don't deserve to carry the label that she has given me, none of us do. We're human beings too, and I think her negative experiences have clouded that view.