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Post by brace4impact on Sept 29, 2012 7:48:07 GMT -5
Regarding the thread of the disabled woman who was violated by those devs; here's my suggestion. The dev community, if it ever wants to be more accepted by the mainstream or more disabled people, needs to self-police. Anyone who does these kinds of things needs to be ostracized, kicked out of whatever pro-dev groups there are, and his or her name needs to be made public like a dev-offender list so that they can be referenced. Harsh? Perhaps. But if you want to see progress, simply stating your case won't amount to a hill of beans; actions speak louder than words.
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2012 8:46:34 GMT -5
Anyone who acted inappropriately like that would be immediately banned from this website. This is nothing new.
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Post by devogirl on Sept 29, 2012 9:13:07 GMT -5
Yes, we don't allow posting stolen pictures or harassment of members. But B4I is talking about something much larger in scope, which while it is a nice thought, isn't really practical because there is no comprehensive devotee community.
The majority of complaints are against straight devotee men, who are not allowed to join here anyway. Some of the guys who have tried to join here in the past have complained that there isn't an equivalent board like this for them, just picture sharing sites. I don't know if this is true, since I haven't searched them out. Also, the kind of guys who are socially deficient enough to stalk women at their houses are not going to care if they get banned from an internet message board.
Many years ago, when I first discovered devotees on the internet, I was a member of a listserv that was mostly straight guys, and they flaunted their stalker behavior, even shared lists of names and addresses. It disgusted me and I argued about it with them, but there was no changing their minds--they were convinced that the strength of their desires justified their actions. It was bullshit but no amount of argument from me could convince them otherwise. I left the group and formed Paradevo with Lee in part because there was nothing else for devs of disabled men, and in part to get away from those assholes. That group was active for a few years but it's been long defunct and I haven't seen anything else that has taken its place. But if you want to go searching for male dev sites, go ahead.
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Post by nordic on Sept 29, 2012 9:18:30 GMT -5
While agreeing on the fact that violating devs - or any other people behaving in a way that is considered unacceptable by the majority - should be kicked out and am glad that this policy is being confirmed, I sense that creating a "public list" might be a double-edged sword: Not only because I think any kind of "public offender-blacklist" has the potential to lead to witch hunts or innocent victims who are on it due to mistakes. This is a message board on the internet. Anyone is free to pick whichever identity they want, even one they might steal from somebody else to incriminate this person. Who tells you the name someone, even if you personally get to know them, is actually theirs? If I wanted to be offensive and violating, I'd definitely make sure that I'm not revealing my actual identity to my victims.
Wouldn't it be better to just show how well a dev and a disabled person can get along? As long as you hide in the shadows, the bad reputation will always dominate. There are just as many abusive non-dev people out there and that still doesn't keep people from dating. Why? Because all over media we are told how great (sexual) relationships can be. So for every stupid blog post there is out there, write three more telling the world about the good devs instead. Be bold and proud about it, just like you want a wheeler to be about his own disability.
[Note: I am not comparing being a devotee to being disabled, I'm comparing the mindset about being different than society expects you to.]
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Post by Kid A on Sept 29, 2012 13:06:39 GMT -5
While agreeing on the fact that violating devs - or any other people behaving in a way that is considered unacceptable by the majority - should be kicked out and am glad that this policy is being confirmed, I sense that creating a "public list" might be a double-edged sword: Not only because I think any kind of "public offender-blacklist" has the potential to lead to witch hunts or innocent victims who are on it due to mistakes. This is a message board on the internet. Anyone is free to pick whichever identity they want, even one they might steal from somebody else to incriminate this person. Who tells you the name someone, even if you personally get to know them, is actually theirs? If I wanted to be offensive and violating, I'd definitely make sure that I'm not revealing my actual identity to my victims. Wouldn't it be better to just show how well a dev and a disabled person can get along? As long as you hide in the shadows, the bad reputation will always dominate. There are just as many abusive non-dev people out there and that still doesn't keep people from dating. Why? Because all over media we are told how great (sexual) relationships can be. So for every stupid blog post there is out there, write three more telling the world about the good devs instead. Be bold and proud about it, just like you want a wheeler to be about his own disability. [Note: I am not comparing being a devotee to being disabled, I'm comparing the mindset about being different than society expects you to.] +1 |
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Post by brace4impact on Sept 29, 2012 15:55:01 GMT -5
I think it's more helpful to show devs won't tolerate bad behavior than posting on a blog. I'm not talking about this place specifically, but anywhere devs might hang out.
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Post by ruthmadison on Oct 1, 2012 13:36:07 GMT -5
I think it comes down to that we can't control someone else's behavior.
I made my video. I hope it makes clear that I don't think these behaviors are acceptable. I seriously doubt it will cause anyone to stop doing whatever it is they do. They don't recognize me as an authority!
(And posting names would require knowing actual names and not just easily-changed handles)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 14:37:29 GMT -5
This was the only thing I could do...post my personal response to her blog...I don't hang out in many places anyways...the places I do hang out as a dev are pro dev...I also don't seek out anti dev places because they only bring me down even more....
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Post by nordic on Oct 2, 2012 4:55:09 GMT -5
It definitely is impossible to control people against their will. You cannot change someone who is convinced that devs are bad. Just as much as most people on this board would probably just stop listening if someone told them devs are of the devil.
Who you can convince though is the broad majority of people who are neutral in their point of view yet. Their opinion will depend on whichever they stumble upon first, a blog post explaining how abusive and terrible a devotee can be or one where someone shares a beautiful romantic story that enrichened their lives. If the first encounter you have with something is positive, you will most likely keep that attitude towards it.
I agree posting on anti-dev sites is a huge waste of time. But by just being open about yourself, and by sharing thoughts and impressions, you may reach people around you already. Be it your personal friends, people on twitter, youtube and facebook or someone reading your blog.
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Post by brace4impact on Oct 2, 2012 9:10:44 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by ruthmadison on Oct 3, 2012 15:06:10 GMT -5
Definitely.
And that's really why I keep on putting comments on anti-dev posts: in the hope that someone who has never heard of it before will be open to my side of it and not just take the poster's word as they only point of view out there.
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