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Post by kat on Apr 9, 2015 5:49:36 GMT -5
Uhh, I sure hope he doesn't find anyone. There is zero medical reason to amputate just to "feel better". It's not comparable to a transgender person, as there are good medical reasons to do that plus doesn't necessarily hinder any bodily ability. My reason to say I hope not isn't to cause a commotion for its own sake. It's to say that I hate to see anyone DESIRE disability and follow through. Treating BIID is one thing. But encouraging maladaptive behavior? It's only a psychological mess here, can't end well. It's also to say it's plain insulting to see someone desire a disability. It's not something to desire having at all. It's not good. It deliberately diminishes disability into an incidental trait. It's something to overcome, not to seek. I disagree with just about everything you've said here, but I've seen enough BIID arguments here to know not to get into it. I just want to point out that it is INCREDIBLY condescending and dismissive to compare trying to solve the absolute psychological hell that can result from BIID, to doing something "just to feel better".
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Post by lucretia on Apr 9, 2015 7:51:25 GMT -5
I'm not getting into the BIID argument because there is no way to objectively discuss it. As a dev, I'm stakeholder and therefore unable to stand outside and speculate.
What I CAN say is most devs are just not into pretenders, wannabes or BIID sufferers.
There are some, however. Although most probably wouldn't fly out of the woodwork to say so.
I will say this. If getting an amputation is what you need to feel whole, whatever. But looking for a dev and using your mental illness as your primary attractor is likely not the best strategy.
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Post by Green on Apr 9, 2015 12:06:06 GMT -5
If you substitute "planning to be an amputee" with "wanting to have sex with an amputee" you can use the exact same argument to condemn devotees. Just sayin. Not at all. I'm talking about seeking being disabled and follow through, not seeking people who have a disability through no fault of their own. Totally different.
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Post by Green on Apr 9, 2015 12:17:40 GMT -5
I disagree with just about everything you've said here, but I've seen enough BIID arguments here to know not to get into it. I just want to point out that it is INCREDIBLY condescending and dismissive to compare trying to solve the absolute psychological hell that can result from BIID, to doing something "just to feel better". Just consider what in fact is altered about their life, and why being amputated isn't itself a good thing. This is unlike a transgender person who has SRS, because being male or female isn't a bad thing.
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Post by Gale on Apr 9, 2015 12:50:30 GMT -5
I've been mulling over my thoughts and feelings on this subject for a few days now and I have come to following conclusions... My main dev attraction is to acquired disabilities, so this whole scenario should be attractive to me, right? But it's not and this is why. What makes up a lot of my attraction to someone with an acquired disability is the fact that a person can have a life-changing injury, be a normal person beforehand and be a normal person again afterwards. That they can deal with something so major that it turns their whole life upside down, but still come out of it the other side and be just a 'regular guy', leading a regular life. That they can accept what has happened to them, what has been forced upon them not out of choice, make it part of their everyday life and move forward. That they are happy in their skin, accept and even love their new body, be confident in it. That quiet confidence, being comfortable with yourself, not being full of self-loathing and not feeling that you have to try to change yourself...that acceptance is what attracts me to someone, so with the best will in the world, whatever physical changes the person creating this thread makes to himself on the outside, he is never going to be attractive to this dev on the inside. The angst negates any phyical attraction that there might be. Not sure any of this makes sense, it's so hard to explain. I'm not trying to attack or defend BIID, only explain my stance as a dev in response to the whole BIID vs dev attraction theme of the thread. Interesting post as usual. I dunno, I guess as a pwd, I don't really care that much if people wanna chop off their limbs and shit. I just hope that they're DAMN sure about the decision beforehand, because you can't undo it. Though I do feel it would be kind of lame if said person were to be asked about it. "Dude what happened to your leg?" Like, what do you even tell them, aside from "fuck off" or a blatant lie? I can kind of understand how some pwd would be offended by this, especially legitimate amputees (and by legitimate I mean having an actual medical reason that isn't purely psychological). I still don't feel like all the hate for people that actually follow through with this is founded though. Why would anyone care at all what somebody decides to do with their own body, especially if it makes them happy? If it's because people think it makes light of disability as a whole, I'm inclined to disagree. I'd never even HEARD of BIID before this site, and to my knowledge it's very uncommon, and even MORE uncommon to have sufferers actually go to extremes like disabling themselves. At best, the impact this has on how pwd are viewed as a whole is incredibly minimal, and more than likely it has no impact at all. People with BIID are still people, and as such can empathize. If you're talking to somebody with BIID and you're telling them about your injury, chances are they're not gonna be like "oh wow, you're so lucky" because they realize that that isn't typically what's thought about becoming disabled, and for a lot of people it fucking sucks. Why is that whenever I make a post on this board, I always feel like I get away from my original point within like a paragraph or two? Lol. At any rate, I'm interested to hear Devvy's thoughts on this topic. PS. I was planning on not posting in this thread, but inky threw out that premium bait and I couldn't resist. Damn you!
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Post by Pony on Apr 9, 2015 15:11:13 GMT -5
I've been mulling over my thoughts and feelings on this subject for a few days now and I have come to following conclusions... My main dev attraction is to acquired disabilities, so this whole scenario should be attractive to me, right? But it's not and this is why. What makes up a lot of my attraction to someone with an acquired disability is the fact that a person can have a life-changing injury, be a normal person beforehand and be a normal person again afterwards. That they can deal with something so major that it turns their whole life upside down, but still come out of it the other side and be just a 'regular guy', leading a regular life. That they can accept what has happened to them, what has been forced upon them not out of choice, make it part of their everyday life and move forward. That they are happy in their skin, accept and even love their new body, be confident in it. That quiet confidence, being comfortable with yourself, not being full of self-loathing and not feeling that you have to try to change yourself...that acceptance is what attracts me to someone, so with the best will in the world, whatever physical changes the person creating this thread makes to himself on the outside, he is never going to be attractive to this dev on the inside. The angst negates any phyical attraction that there might be. Not sure any of this makes sense, it's so hard to explain. I'm not trying to attack or defend BIID, only explain my stance as a dev in response to the whole BIID vs dev attraction theme of the thread. I don't think i've ever heard it described like this on pd, and i've never claimed to understanding the dev thangy completely, but THIS I GET!!
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Post by AlrightyAphrodite on Apr 9, 2015 19:26:53 GMT -5
I don't personally feel like I can tell someone what to do with their body just as I wouldn't want someone telling me what to do with mine, but like some of the other girls have said, I wouldn't have any interest at all in someone who self injured. My only experiences with guys who had some kind of BIID has been quite frankly when they're being dishonest so I'm personally just creeped out by the concept. I also think the guys who reacted unfavorably to this guy are totally entitled to those reactions.
Sorry dude, not here to flame you but partly because some members here are not supportive but I recommend you take your search elsewhere.
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Post by MarineAmp on Apr 9, 2015 21:20:56 GMT -5
For the most part I've gotten over the whole getting pissed at BIID, but there is a part of me that is still bothered by it. That being said, I'd much rather have a person with BIID use a wheelchair spot or stall, compared to someone who really has no business being there.
I guess the problem I have still have with BIID, is the attention seeking that seems to come with it, and I don't understand the whole seeking a dev long before desired injury is accomplished. Is being with a dev a "necessity" that goes along with BIID? Granted I doubt it applies to everyone with BIID, but it seems to be a reoccurring theme.
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Post by Mr.BB on Apr 10, 2015 17:49:41 GMT -5
I have to say that I'm amazed that more of you PWD guys aren't more vocally opposed to the whole BIID thing. I think it would be something that I would find very, very hard to accept if I was disabled. Or perhaps those of you who hate the whole concept just don't post about your feelings on it? For what reason? Fear of a backlash, of starting a war of words? Idk... I used to lump BIID in with pretenders. Over time I have been able to separate the two. Maybe it is more understanding or just old age setting in, who knows. In the past here we have had some pretty good blow outs when this subject comes up. My view even though it has changed some, I typically do not dive in to the fight. In my mind no one side is going to win or even convince the other side of ones argument is right or wrong. Personally I think if I had BIID it would suck, I can honestly come to that conclusion because I am the opposite. I have a BIID of my own body but it is of a AB person. There is no easy cure in that department. (forget the fact if there was a fix, I am not sure I would actually go out and do it) So in a way yeah I can wrap my head around BIID. Pretenders.... much harder to for me to be okay with. I just ignore those people/posts if the person is open about it here on pd. If we met out in the real world and the person was open about being a pretender. I would be a straight up asshole.
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Post by lucretia on Apr 10, 2015 18:00:40 GMT -5
I have to say that I'm amazed that more of you PWD guys aren't more vocally opposed to the whole BIID thing. I think it would be something that I would find very, very hard to accept if I was disabled. Or perhaps those of you who hate the whole concept just don't post about your feelings on it? For what reason? Fear of a backlash, of starting a war of words? Idk... I have great admiration for anyone with a disability who shows even the smallest hint of acceptance of BIID, or attempts to understand it and can set aside their negativity about it all. I try not to have an opinion on it as a dev, because I'm very aware that 'outsiders' can and do see what I am as freaky and weird. They pre-judge me without knowing who or what I am and put me into a box labelled devotee. To them that is all I am and they don't want to find out any more about me, because I have these 'sick' desires. So I don't want to be the one who then does this labelling and judging of others, due to my own preconceptions. That makes me as bad as them, surely? But, at the same time, I find it hard, hard, hard not to judge people with BIID, because I hear the stories and experiences of some of you guys, who would give anything not to be disabled - not because of any vanity issues, but purely for health reasons. You have to put up with all kinds of shit on a daily basis, not out of choice, but out of necessity and despite that still manage to be normal well-balanced human beings living normal everyday lives. I have no idea of what you have to go through as a result of your disability - physically, emotionally, socially and financially, but it can't be easy by any stretch of the imagination. This is why I ask you so many questions. I want to know what it's like to be disabled, not because I want to be disabled, but because I want to understand it all so badly and I know I never can or will. Because I am not you and I'm not living your life. But I get enough glimpses and nuggets of information from you all to know that it would probably break me to try and go through the experience of acquiring a disability. I'm not a strong person and I never will be. I suppose what I am trying to say is that I empathise (as far as it is possible to) with some PWDs and therefore find it hard to not judge the BIID brigade because of that. I can see the kind of things that you endure and therefore also find it hard to understand why anyone would willingly put themselves in your shoes. How can I, by empathising with your situation, also accept the concept of BIID? But at the same time, I'm a para dev. I'm attracted to disabled men with an acquired disability. What does that make me? How can I balance my 'likes' of what you are, with the situation you don't choose to be in and also with those with BIID, who don't choose to be that way. I didn't choose to be a dev, but I like being a dev (nowadays), so is that on a par with someone who likes and accepts their BIID enough to see it through to actually having an amputation to make themselves happy? Arghh! My head is going to explode!!! Most of what is not said is because of backlash. If you cruise through old threads you'll see very lively and heated exchanges, in depth debates, and people who put it all out there... even some very dark matter. But, the bigger a group gets the harder it is to be an individual in that group. Those members who have taken those journeys into PD's past have often lamented why it's not like it used to be. Well... it is what it is. So yeah.
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Post by lucretia on Apr 10, 2015 18:02:09 GMT -5
I have to say that I'm amazed that more of you PWD guys aren't more vocally opposed to the whole BIID thing. I think it would be something that I would find very, very hard to accept if I was disabled. Or perhaps those of you who hate the whole concept just don't post about your feelings on it? For what reason? Fear of a backlash, of starting a war of words? Idk... I used to lump BIID in with pretenders. Over time I have been able to separate the two. Maybe it is more understanding or just old age setting in, who knows. In the past here we have had some pretty good blow outs when this subject comes up. My view even though it has changed some, I typically do not dive in to the fight. In my mind no one side is going to win or even convince the other side of ones argument is right or wrong. Personally I think if I had BIID it would suck, I can honestly come to that conclusion because I am the opposite. I have a BIID of my own body but it is of a AB person. There is no easy cure in that department. (forget the fact if there was a fix, I am not sure I would actually go out and do it) So in a way yeah I can wrap my head around BIID. Pretenders.... much harder to for me to be okay with. I just ignore those people/posts if the person is open about it here on pd. If we met out in the real world and the person was open about being a pretender. I would be a straight up asshole. I would love to see the asshole response.
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Post by Mr.BB on Apr 10, 2015 18:32:12 GMT -5
I would love to see the asshole response. you and tosh.0
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Post by Nia on Jul 23, 2016 6:00:08 GMT -5
From my own personal opinion I think it is disgusting. I am disabled, and to me someone seeking it is seriously fucked up. I understand that having BIID is difficult to deal with, but it is hard for me to empathize. I don't wish to condemn people who seek disabilities, but my gut reaction is anger and confusion. From a purely objective standpoint I suppose I would have no problem with it as long as someone who, for example, becomes a sak by choice, does not accept disability money from the government, or take up handicap parking spots. If someone chooses to acquire a disability and can pay for all the expenses themselves (being a gimp is EXPENSIVE!!!!), then go for it! Once someone starts taking resources from people who actually are not disabled by choice, then there is a problem. Otherwise I suppose from a completely logical perspective it isn't really an issue. I had considered making a topic about this a few weeks ago, but I did a search and saw it had already been discussed many times Inky, I found your post very interesting, and yes, it did make sense to me. Thanks. I hear you and I can relate to your comment. I am not defending anyone - just truing to understand. Just think of it this way - what if I said that a man wanting to change gender is discusting to me since being a woman is not a goog expirience for me. I know it's a strach and not at all the same but try to understand my point. The fact that dissability is hard for you does not at all mean that it is not desired way of living for another person... He is not offending you in any way by wanting to be disabled. So do not offend back by saying it is disgusting
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Post by malibu on Jul 23, 2016 6:45:55 GMT -5
From my own personal opinion I think it is disgusting. I am disabled, and to me someone seeking it is seriously fucked up. I understand that having BIID is difficult to deal with, but it is hard for me to empathize. I don't wish to condemn people who seek disabilities, but my gut reaction is anger and confusion. From a purely objective standpoint I suppose I would have no problem with it as long as someone who, for example, becomes a sak by choice, does not accept disability money from the government, or take up handicap parking spots. If someone chooses to acquire a disability and can pay for all the expenses themselves (being a gimp is EXPENSIVE!!!!), then go for it! Once someone starts taking resources from people who actually are not disabled by choice, then there is a problem. Otherwise I suppose from a completely logical perspective it isn't really an issue. I had considered making a topic about this a few weeks ago, but I did a search and saw it had already been discussed many times Inky, I found your post very interesting, and yes, it did make sense to me. Thanks. I hear you and I can relate to your comment. I am not defending anyone - just truing to understand. Just think of it this way - what if I said that a man wanting to change gender is discusting to me since being a woman is not a goog expirience for me. I know it's a strach and not at all the same but try to understand my point. The fact that dissability is hard for you does not at all mean that it is not desired way of living for another person... He is not offending you in any way by wanting to be disabled. So do not offend back by saying it is disgusting It's a super old post, Nia. I think disgusting is not the right word. But I admit I feel offended. I haven't ever spoken to a BIID guy so I'm perhaps jumping into conclusions. But I don't see how it compares to gender choice, it doesn't IMO. If I had a son telling me he feels like a girl, I'd be supportive. I'd probably be an asshole mom if he wanted to cause an injury to himself though, and I can see how I might be wrong, but I can't help, this is how I feel, right now. Maybe if someone quoted me in a few months I'd have a different opinion on that.
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Post by Nia on Jul 23, 2016 9:13:31 GMT -5
@malibu what is it you wanted to say? The post is only 1 year old - much older ones are very often revived... Also, a guy I quoted said BIID is disgustong - I was just replying. And I do not understand why are YOU offended and by which comment?
My point was clear, and also I said comparison is a stratch but I used it anyway... What was yours?
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