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Post by missparkle on Jan 14, 2018 7:45:06 GMT -5
Obviously, there are lot of shades of devotism, spectrum is very wide, therefore I can not speak in general.
Speaking for myself, it is not fetish, although it has some elements of it, if we speak about visible manifestation of someone's disability. Being brutally honest, although I do understand some people will not feel comfortable with this parallel, I have to say that I find similarities, in my case, with identity disorder. The main difference is that I do not have issues with my own identity, but obviously I do have issues with the identity of the couple, in which I see myself.
I have to say, one more time, it would be much easier if it was just a pure fetish, sexual me would be easy to satisfy. But to satisfy the need of my whole being, is not so easy.
Fetish would mean that my sexual self is a dev. But I, all my selves, my complete being, is dev. To the bones.
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Post by devogirl on Jan 14, 2018 7:58:28 GMT -5
Thanks Mona for linking to that other thread. I stand by everything I wrote there. I'm not going to repeat it all, but the short version is I am in favor of using the word fetish and for reclaiming fetishes in a sex positive way. I suspect that many people who think of a fetish as only a sexual thing, not part of your real whole self, have never met anyone with other types of fetishes. Also psychiatrists tend to only encounter people for whom the fetish is a problem, not people who happily live their lives without needing professional help. I don't think the DSM IV definition reflects the full reality of people with fetishes or paraphilias.
We would all be much happier if we realized how common non-standard sexual attractions are, and stop assigning imagined other fetishists to the "creepy" or "sex only" category. Many people with other kinds of fetishes also feel it to their bones, with their whole selves too.
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Post by missparkle on Jan 15, 2018 9:12:45 GMT -5
Ok, fair enough, true, I have never met anyone, at least not that I'm aware of, with any type of fetish. I have never even met a dev, either. But for me, it is absolutely unimaginable to compare “objects of desire” - pwd, real person, from flesh and blood, with all its' thoughts, emotions, desires and fears, with patent leather red stilettos!!! But you are right, my lack of fantasy and me not being able to imagine the other things don't make them any less real. Not saying one is better than another or “creepier”, who am I to judge anyway?! As far as I am concerned, I have no problem, none soever, with any preference, call it as you wish, as long as it is consensual and doesn't harm, in any possible way, any other being.
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Post by strawberrybubblegum on Jan 23, 2018 2:57:31 GMT -5
I do view my attraction as a fetish. Youtube videos of every day wheeler life are my porn and I do get off watching them. I do get aroused by wheeler struggles, like difficult transfers, etc. Videos of Wheelers I don't know, wheelers I will never meet. Oftentimes, I mute those videos, because I'm not interested in their personality and I just wanna get my quick wheeler fix. Am I a bad person? Yeah, and a good person and 100 shades of good and bad inbetween. #metoo #nonotthatmetoo I don’t think I’ve ever read anything like this on here. I feel like this is not something that’s very welcomed here... or very common. But to me this is a big part of my devness. To be honest, it was the main/only part of my devness for most my life as I never read any dev-fiction, had detailed fantasies about my “dream guy” or had any PWD friends. Since I found PD and I met my boyfriend who’s a PWD my devness has developed, but I totally still watch “porn” on YouTube.
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Post by karotix5 on Jan 23, 2018 4:17:08 GMT -5
I do view my attraction as a fetish. Youtube videos of every day wheeler life are my porn and I do get off watching them. I do get aroused by wheeler struggles, like difficult transfers, etc. Videos of Wheelers I don't know, wheelers I will never meet. Oftentimes, I mute those videos, because I'm not interested in their personality and I just wanna get my quick wheeler fix. Am I a bad person? Yeah, and a good person and 100 shades of good and bad inbetween. #metoo #nonotthatmetoo I don’t think I’ve ever read anything like this on here. I feel like this is not something that’s very welcomed here... or very common. But to me this is a big part of my devness. To be honest, it was the main/only part of my devness for most my life as I never read any dev-fiction, had detailed fantasies about my “dream guy” or had any PWD friends. Since I found PD and I met my boyfriend who’s a PWD my devness has developed, but I totally still watch “porn” on YouTube. I wouldn't say it's un-welcomed. That could just be me though, I do view devoteeism as a fetish and in general I'm quite fetish-friendly. I feel like as long as nobody's being a dick about it, or specifically asking somebody for something they might not want to give, the statement or question is acceptable and dare I say encouragable. I say that because there's just so much fucking (I don't say this in hate, I just seriously need some emphasis here) stigma surrounding devoteeism that I think we need more well-spoken and confident people (especially women) talking about it even if it's merely amongst ourselves.
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devine
Full Member
Posts: 121
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by devine on Jan 23, 2018 6:51:15 GMT -5
I do view my attraction as a fetish. Youtube videos of every day wheeler life are my porn and I do get off watching them. I do get aroused by wheeler struggles, like difficult transfers, etc. Videos of Wheelers I don't know, wheelers I will never meet. Oftentimes, I mute those videos, because I'm not interested in their personality and I just wanna get my quick wheeler fix. Am I a bad person? Yeah, and a good person and 100 shades of good and bad inbetween. #metoo #nonotthatmetoo I don’t think I’ve ever read anything like this on here. I feel like this is not something that’s very welcomed here... or very common. But to me this is a big part of my devness. To be honest, it was the main/only part of my devness for most my life as I never read any dev-fiction, had detailed fantasies about my “dream guy” or had any PWD friends. Since I found PD and I met my boyfriend who’s a PWD my devness has developed, but I totally still watch “porn” on YouTube. The dark side of devness has been discussed before on here. It's true, that this isn't the most popular subject among wheelers, but the dark side exists nonetheless. For me, the most important thing is to stay true to myself. People have every right to not like me, but I'm not going to lie about how I feel and what I am.
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Post by kat on Jan 23, 2018 8:49:54 GMT -5
The dark side of devness has been discussed before on here. It's true, that this isn't the most popular subject among wheelers, but the dark side exists nonetheless. I'm interested, though, what part of your description of (sexually) enjoying watching PWDs on YouTube you consider the 'dark side'? I really can't see anything wrong or dark about it (unless we're talking about the perspective of someone who considers any kind of porn morally reprehensible... but I doubt many of these people exist on PD).
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Post by letstrythis on Jan 24, 2018 0:43:21 GMT -5
can someone please give me the name of the documentary mentioned in the article?
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Post by mona on Jan 24, 2018 2:13:40 GMT -5
can someone please give me the name of the documentary mentioned in the article? I just sent you a pm with the link. But if you wish to gain an insight to the real "world of devotees" I rather recommend you to read here. There is a "best of" thread on the general board that I highly recommend. Enjoy exploring.
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Post by letstrythis on Jan 24, 2018 2:35:47 GMT -5
can someone please give me the name of the documentary mentioned in the article? I just sent you a pm with the link. But if you wish to gain an insight to the real "world of devotees" I rather recommend you to read here. There is a "best of" thread on the general board that I highly recommend. Enjoy exploring. Thanks
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allie
New Member
Posts: 8
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: It's complicated
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Post by allie on Jan 24, 2018 9:16:12 GMT -5
I never thought of having sex with a man who has a disability as a fetish! I always was highly attracted or even in love with the person. Even if it was different depending what was physically possible - or not possible.
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Post by devogirl on Jan 25, 2018 7:09:21 GMT -5
The dark side of devness has been discussed before on here. It's true, that this isn't the most popular subject among wheelers, but the dark side exists nonetheless. I'm interested, though, what part of your description of (sexually) enjoying watching PWDs on YouTube you consider the 'dark side'? I really can't see anything wrong or dark about it (unless we're talking about the perspective of someone who considers any kind of porn morally reprehensible... but I doubt many of these people exist on PD). I think it's that whenever the topic of fetish comes up, lots of people start posting about how it's not only about sex, they are attracted to the whole person, etc etc. That's fine but there is an unspoken assumption that being attracted to only the disability makes you a bad person. While of course when engaging in a relationship with a real person, you should be attracted to the whole person, and it shouldn't only be based on sex. But if we're talking about our fantasy lives, what turns us on, then yes, the disability is the focus. A bit of objectification in fantasy is normal and common to all people, it doesn't mean you won't treat your partner with respect in real life. I find it sad that watching videos of transfers or whatever is something that might be considered shameful to admit to. But yes, in the rush to prove we are not only driven by sex, the part that is about sex gets glossed over. When we talked about the "dark side" in the past I understood that as meaning dark fantasies, maybe with a BDSM element. That's also something devs should not be ashamed of.
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Post by elbs on Jan 26, 2018 7:18:46 GMT -5
I'm interested, though, what part of your description of (sexually) enjoying watching PWDs on YouTube you consider the 'dark side'? I really can't see anything wrong or dark about it (unless we're talking about the perspective of someone who considers any kind of porn morally reprehensible... but I doubt many of these people exist on PD). I think it's that whenever the topic of fetish comes up, lots of people start posting about how it's not only about sex, they are attracted to the whole person, etc etc. That's fine but there is an unspoken assumption that being attracted to only the disability makes you a bad person. While of course when engaging in a relationship with a real person, you should be attracted to the whole person, and it shouldn't only be based on sex. But if we're talking about our fantasy lives, what turns us on, then yes, the disability is the focus. A bit of objectification in fantasy is normal and common to all people, it doesn't mean you won't treat your partner with respect in real life. I find it sad that watching videos of transfers or whatever is something that might be considered shameful to admit to. But yes, in the rush to prove we are not only driven by sex, the part that is about sex gets glossed over. When we talked about the "dark side" in the past I understood that as meaning dark fantasies, maybe with a BDSM element. That's also something devs should not be ashamed of. I also think that we should remember that there are lots of ways to be attracted to someone other than sexual, and any relationship that is only based on sexual attraction is going to be a very superficial one at best. If I get involved with a disabled person, the only thing I'll find interesting about them sexually is their disability, because apart from my fetishes, I'm asexual. But I would want us to like each other for lots of other things, like enjoying intellectual discussions, sharing similar values, etc. When I watch transfer videos, it doesn't matter who the person in the video is. I don't need to know what their hopes and dreams are, what their personality is like, etc. I don't even care if they're male or female or how attractive they are overall. And I don't think that's a bad thing, just as I don't think it's a bad thing for my Mom to drool over Johnny Depp in movies when she probably wouldn't like him in real life.
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Post by matisse on Jan 26, 2018 19:11:07 GMT -5
When we talked about the "dark side" in the past I understood that as meaning dark fantasies, maybe with a BDSM element. That's also something devs should not be ashamed of. It has varied but in general it's not as mild as your description. There was one thread where a wheeler confirmed that he had actually experienced the seeming urban legend of having someone move your chair away from the bed so that he was stuck even though he didn't want to be. This aspect of the dark side deals with consent. The other aspect I recall relates to emotional stress and suffering due to struggling. It's one thing to enjoy a low para doing a transfer or a person with MD having to work hard to take a jacket off. The dark stuff relates to things where the wheeler is struggling to the point of being inconsolably angry and frustrated, the kind of thing that could make us cry and shout out, WHY ME? In these situations for most devs compassion takes over and makes them no fun to watch. For the dark side, the negative intensity of the struggle is the opposite and makes it even more enjoyable.
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Post by missparkle on Jan 27, 2018 5:08:23 GMT -5
Thank you for this insight, I appreciate it and I agree with most things that you've written here. I especially relate to "distantly mournful" as "There's a primary desire that isn't going to be met, so we make do with what we have and try not to let a single fixation ruin all the other good things we have going on.". I couldn't have put it better myself! There is one thing that bothers me, though. Stability is great, but I feel like comparing it to sexual/sensual satisfaction is apples to oranges. We (as a society) always try to keep it mashed into the same thing. One is emotional and social, and the other is sensory and instinctual. You refer to devness as satisfying sensory and instinctual needs. But that is exactly the poit I am trying to make from very beginning. My dev needs overcome sensory part. My dev needs ARE emotional and social as well.
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