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Post by casper on Apr 12, 2008 9:15:23 GMT -5
I was wondering if any devs could expect a wheeler to commit to a relationship where the initial atraction is based on something they may consider to be their biggest downfall? I dont know if ive really worded this correctly, i'll try kind of explain things as im seeing them. Devs like disability.Wheelers dont like disability. (now this may be a rather wide generalisation but im finding it hard to think of any reasons why someone would want to be disabled, or like being disabled, sorry if i offend anyone, im really not trying to.) Devs like wheelers because of their disability.(again this may be seen as a bit of a generalisation and i know it wont be the only reason a dev would like a wheeler, but i think it may be the initial reason for taking an interest in them) So can a wheeler really take a relationship with a dev seriously if the initial atraction is something that wouldnt be present in a relationship between the two if both were able bodied? And i really dont want to offend anyone but from my extremely limited knowledge of the dev world it seems 'suffering' or struggling so to speek, is a bit of a turn on. so could you be expected to take any kind of relationship with a dev seriously if they ultimately are getting enjoyment from your disability, e.g seeing you struggle to do things, or enjoying seeing your legs deteriorate and get skinny. things you wouldnt wish to happen to anyone if you could help it, so why would you enjoy seeing it happen to somebody you ultimately might love? I know i havent really got my point across very well but id like as much feedback as possible. feel free to have a go at me or anything if it will make you feel better, but im not trying to offend. i just thought i should ask after reading the thread about being able to commit after SCI. Thanks  |
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Post by Claire on Apr 12, 2008 13:06:00 GMT -5
Casper, I'm not offended at all. I think this is an excellent question and it's worth talking about. I have thought about this a great deal myself. It's one of the reasons that many of us struggle with guilt. For me, suffering and struggling isn't really a part of it. I would be far more turned on by a skillful wheeler deftly negotiating some obstacle (à la cripcollege.com) than watching the same wheeler struggle at doing something. But as far as relationships go, don't many relationships start as a purely physical attraction and then grow to be something deeper as an intellectual and emotional bond develops? I see it as much the same thing with devs and wheelers. If they don't manage to get past the physical, the relationship is doomed. But if they can, then there's the possibility of something lasting. Just like any other couple. Edited to add: I wrote that, re-read it, and am not satisfied with my answer. I don't think I adequately addressed the issue of being attracted to the aspect of a man that the man has a hard time accepting about himself. I need to think more about this... |
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Post by Sova on Apr 12, 2008 16:31:42 GMT -5
Wow, this is a really hard question. Nice Casper... I can't wait to see what all the devs have to say (and to see how they dig themselves out afterwards LOL)
Don't worry ladies, I won't judge........................too much lol.
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Post by spurs2000 on Apr 12, 2008 16:41:30 GMT -5
Quality question. I'll be intrigued by the replies!
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Post by BA on Apr 12, 2008 21:05:29 GMT -5
Casper, this is a really great question and you worded it very, very well. I am not offended at all. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask and if I were a woman in a wheelchair and I guy was intially attracted to me b/c of my disability I'd have some issues about it myself. I think I'd wonder if I was being objectified and that if suddenly I were able to get up tomorrow and walk, that the person would leave and no longer be interested in me. I'd wonder if that was the only thing about me that turned the person on. I'd wonder if that person had some kind of a sadistic streak in them. Having an attraction to a person with a disability is a really hard thing to come to terms with, because it arouses alot of guilt. I get to benefit in some "perverse" way from your problem? Doesn't make any sense at all. Seems really cruel too. It doesn't feel cruel to me when I am in the midst of a loving and caring relationship, but it hides somewhere there in the back of my mind and my fear is that my lover will one day slap me in the face with it during a heated argument. Despite years of disability rights and legislation and political correctness on the part of society, we are still basically given one message - that it is inherently BAD and NOT OK to have a disability. But this doesn't even come close to answering the question, does it - because for you on a personal level it is not a good experience and why in hell should ANYONE benefit, in any way, from something you didn't wish upon yourself and would trade in an instant?? I don't know why I am a dev. I don't know why something about your disability touches me in a way that makes me feel an attraction. I can't even justify it. It just "is". I do know one thing and we have discussed this on the board before. If I had an emotional and physical bond with a disabled guy and one day he woke up and got "cured", I would stay in the relationship. And if there were a cure tomorrow, I'd hand it to you YESTERDAY. I wish I had an answer for you that would make perfect sense. Maybe someone does. All I know is that when I see an attractive man in a wheelchair, I wonder what kind of a person he is. In my fantasy he is stronger than most able-bodied guys, because he's been through adversity. I imagine that he doesn't take things for granted. As attracted as I may be, if he opens his mouth and reeks of stupidity, crudeness or general jerk-dom, the whole dev thing goes out the window. Maybe the only way a guy with a disability can really be in a long-term committed relationship with a dev is if he really loves himself and can accept someone loving all of him, especially his 'imperfections'. I think it's a really hard level to acheive. |
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Post by Claire on Apr 12, 2008 21:59:09 GMT -5
Thank you AB, you have (eloquently) saved me from further effort that would have certainly been in vain in any case. I have absolutely nothing further to add to this except that I am 100% in agreement with AB. Also casper in answer your comment as to why anyone would want to be disabled...the only possible reason is because they are mentally ill.  I've just sent you a private message. Devism is actually somewhat along those lines as well. There's no logic to it, either. In fact I very firmly believe it's a paraphilia, although in the case of most of the devs here, it's a benign one. |
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Post by natasha on Apr 12, 2008 22:47:17 GMT -5
I don't know why I am a dev. I don't know why something about your disability touches me in a way that makes me feel an attraction. I can't even justify it. It just "is". I do know one thing and we have discussed this on the board before. If I had an emotional and physical bond with a disabled guy and one day he woke up and got "cured", I would stay in the relationship. And if there were a cure tomorrow, I'd hand it to you YESTERDAY. I wish I had an answer for you that would make perfect sense. Maybe someone does. All I know is that when I see an attractive man in a wheelchair, I wonder what kind of a person he is. In my fantasy he is stronger than most able-bodied guys, because he's been through adversity. I imagine that he doesn't take things for granted. As attracted as I may be, if he opens his mouth and reeks of stupidity, crudeness or general jerk-dom, the whole dev thing goes out the window. . AMEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN FOR THAT AB, I think excatly the same!!! I love u!! ... I also wish they find the cure soon, i really do..... |
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Post by laurasweetou on Apr 12, 2008 23:32:09 GMT -5
You know that thing they say about smart people thinking alike... We've got some very smart dev's here. I'm with you girls.
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Post by dolly on Apr 13, 2008 9:25:26 GMT -5
Casper, this is a really great question and you worded it very, very well. I am not offended at all. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask and if I were a woman in a wheelchair and I guy was intially attracted to me b/c of my disability I'd have some issues about it myself. I think I'd wonder if I was being objectified and that if suddenly I were able to get up tomorrow and walk, that the person would leave and no longer be interested in me. I'd wonder if that was the only thing about me that turned the person on. I'd wonder if that person had some kind of a sadistic streak in them. Having an attraction to a person with a disability is a really hard thing to come to terms with, because it arouses alot of guilt. I get to benefit in some "perverse" way from your problem? Doesn't make any sense at all. Seems really cruel too. It doesn't feel cruel to me when I am in the midst of a loving and caring relationship, but it hides somewhere there in the back of my mind and my fear is that my lover will one day slap me in the face with it during a heated argument. Despite years of disability rights and legislation and political correctness on the part of society, we are still basically given one message - that it is inherently BAD and NOT OK to have a disability. But this doesn't even come close to answering the question, does it - because for you on a personal level it is not a good experience and why in hell should ANYONE benefit, in any way, from something you didn't wish upon yourself and would trade in an instant?? I don't know why I am a dev. I don't know why something about your disability touches me in a way that makes me feel an attraction. I can't even justify it. It just "is". I do know one thing and we have discussed this on the board before. If I had an emotional and physical bond with a disabled guy and one day he woke up and got "cured", I would stay in the relationship. And if there were a cure tomorrow, I'd hand it to you YESTERDAY. I wish I had an answer for you that would make perfect sense. Maybe someone does. All I know is that when I see an attractive man in a wheelchair, I wonder what kind of a person he is. In my fantasy he is stronger than most able-bodied guys, because he's been through adversity. I imagine that he doesn't take things for granted. As attracted as I may be, if he opens his mouth and reeks of stupidity, crudeness or general jerk-dom, the whole dev thing goes out the window. Maybe the only way a guy with a disability can really be in a long-term committed relationship with a dev is if he really loves himself and can accept someone loving all of him, especially his 'imperfections'. I think it's a really hard level to acheive. i felt the need to quote AB's entire post to emphasize the fact that i agree with everything she said down to the word. so i send a huge expression of gratitude to AB for answering this question so perfectly ...and for basically summarizing my inner dialogue of the past couple of decades in a much more eloquent way than i ever could have. although (mainly through this board) i have come to 'accept' my devness, i think it would take a very special kind of wheeler guy indeed to ever make me feel comfortable with my devness in a real life scenario. casper, your questions are excellent and certainly nothing that all of us devs (i presume?) haven't already spent countless hours contemplating. i think i am still just as confused / curious about these things as you are. the issues you raised really pinpoint the reasons why "devism" generally arouses discomfort in both sides of the dev/wheeler equation. and the reasons that i think that the concept of a healthy dev/wheeler relationship is, although possible, probably very elusive and rare. so many factors would have to be just right... one of the primary factors being the wheeler's acceptance/comfort level with their disability and self-image. another being the dev's acceptance/comfort level with their devness and self-image. the only thing i really care to add to AB's post at this time is to say that personally i do not "get off" on struggle or suffering. i do however find the different ways that wheelers do things (which may actually be or may at least appear to be a struggle) visually very attractive. same for things like muscle atrophy. i don't get off on it happening to someone, but i do like the way it looks. i don't want to see anyone (especially someone i care about) have to struggle or suffer in any way. hence the lifelong conflicted feelings of this particular dev. |
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Post by Pony on Apr 13, 2008 10:54:23 GMT -5
Wow, I just got around to reading this thread, and damn, AB, my dear Dev-ah, you're really good at expressing your feelings. Ad, I see you nailed it for a few others Devs. I would say you're right about most chairdudes having the life-lessons that give us the opportunity to be more of a man. I, personally, feel having my back shoved against the wall made me dig deep to be a better person. and you're also rght that it doesn't happen all the time. Friday night I met some friends from work in a bar, ran into this quad I knew from years back. I always hated that dude, just a rude, pompous asshole that questions me to death when I see him. Anyway, reading your post reminded me that some chairdudes DO NOT learn the value of appreciation, the struggle, what's important in life. Oh, we're still men, gonna fuck up, but I generally think I've had reexamine life completely through the years that most AB dudes will never have to think about. Anyway, great writing AB! Also, cool question Casper!
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Post by matisse on Apr 13, 2008 12:37:41 GMT -5
I was wondering if any devs could expect a wheeler to commit to a relationship where the initial atraction is based on something they may consider to be their biggest downfall? It's called turning a weakness into a strength. |
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Post by matisse on Apr 13, 2008 12:39:52 GMT -5
So to all my fellow wheelers, please get into the fight against stupidity and stigmatism and join me in some crip pride here instead of falling into sullen misery and self pity. Yeah, let's have a parade! |
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Post by andyc251 on Apr 13, 2008 12:40:20 GMT -5
I am really disappointed with most of my fellow wheelers here. You all seem to implicitly fall into the trap of normal society, where disability is seen as something that only entails suffering, pain, anguish and tragedy. So to all my fellow wheelers, please get into the fight against stupidity and stigmatism and join me in some crip pride here instead of falling into sullen misery and self pity. yeah right on...............wait....................WHAT.THE.FUCK?! How about you go fuck yourself. Who the hell is so full of anguish, suffering, tragedy, pain, sullen misery and self pity around here that they needed your patronizing little pep talk. Quite the disabled role model and hero huh?, get over yourself you self-precious cock. |
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Post by charlene on Apr 13, 2008 13:09:29 GMT -5
Dev or not- I'm only human/just a girl and if a guy wants to be with me (wheeler or not), he better takes me serious!
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Post by Ouch on Apr 13, 2008 14:12:23 GMT -5
...I was just talking about this with someone else - if I'm not 'standing up' for 'pride', I'm sad, and miserable; If I am, I'm a pompous ass...
...close my eyes and pick a team...?
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I've just sent you a private message. 
