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Post by thegoodlife on May 30, 2008 23:06:23 GMT -5
Alright, so here’s a few questions centered around beauty vs. raw animal magnetism or sexual attraction. Although there is not often a distinction between the two, a lot of people separate what they find beautiful in the opposite sex, and what turns them on. Often in the fetishist world what can turn an individual on is not necessarily what they find to be beautiful and vice versa. In fact, some individuals in the fetishist world find that what turns them on, turns them on particularly because it’s naughty or a lot of people they know might disapprove; they find it thrilling. Some though find that what they find beautiful in a mate or sexual partner is also what turns them on; they just have a different taste in what is beautiful.
So the first question is do you find it the case that more often than not, that disabled individuals are both beautiful and a sexual turn on, or maybe a sexual turn on without the belief that they are beautiful? Also can a disabled individual who you do not particularly beautiful still turn you on, if so is it more difficult to find this type of disabled individual a turn on? I’m interested in these questions because it is often thought that devotees find disability in general a turn on as opposed to the person. A lot of these attitudes are based on the presupposition that devotees easily separate what might be beautiful and what turns them on. If it is the case that a lot of you devotees don’t easily separate beauty and sexual attraction then this may not be the case, they actually have a different taste in what they find beautiful.
Second question, suppose you see and meet a disabled individual you find to be both a wonderful human being, independent, employed etc. This disabled individual also has a twin that has exactly all the characteristics, traits, job and everything that the disabled individual has but he is not disabled. Do you think you would fall in love easier with the disabled individual or his non-disabled twin? (It should be mentioned that the disabled individual and the twin might have the same facial features, but obviously their bodies differ considerably, the traits I’m thinking of here are more non-physical traits. Essentially your dream man or woman, but one disabled and one not disabled).
Keep in mind, I’m interested in your personal opinions and thoughts, I don’t really want a voice for the entire Devotee community because that’s difficult to pin down; there are a lot of degrees within the community. It’s easier for me if you just state your thoughts, because you probably know them better than everyone else’s thoughts.
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Post by Triassic on May 31, 2008 9:35:18 GMT -5
< rimshot, cymbal crash > 'thank you...thank you. i got a million of em. i'll be here all week.'
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Post by medora on May 31, 2008 12:15:28 GMT -5
You ask very good questions, that aren't that simple to answer for me, but I'll try to answer as good as possible. And as you just want our personal thoughts I can't say anything wrong this time..  For me the stuff I find beautiful and the stuff that turn me on is something different for example, I personally don't see atrophied legs and hands and stuff like that as beautiful, but somehow they can be a big turn on. But just legs itself can't be a turn on for me, the legs have to be part of a guy, and that guy has to be beautiful (beautiful is such a strange word if I'm talking about guys, but maybe in English it isn't..). So something I don't find particularly beautiful turns me on, but only in combination with something beautiful. I don't know, maybe it's about contrast or something. And someone I wouldn't find attractive at all, if he wasn't disabled is not gonna be a big turn on for me, even with a disability. Well I guess I'm a _little_ less picky with disabled guys. But hmm on the other hand I'm not really sure about that one.. For me there are different kinds of turn ons, like there are the guys I watch on youtube or in movies or see passing by on the street or something like that. There I am turned on by guys I probably wouldn't notice if they weren't disabled. Not ugly guys, but normal ones, that aren't normally my type or something. But then there is a less creepy wax to be turned on, like not just watching something on youtube, but actually having sex with someone. And there I am even pickier with disabled guys, that's not really consistent, but I try to answer your questions as honest as possible. I think I separate what I find beautiful and what turns me on. I find a beautiful guy beautiful, and some parts of him, that I don't think are beautiful, turn me on.. And the twin question: I'd definitely take the disabled twin, if I'm thinking of my "dream man" he always has some sort of disability.. Because even if I'm saying I'm for some reasons pickier with disabled guys in real life, a really hot disabled guy is still hot in a way no ab guy can be. I hope this made any sense and my English is good enough to express what I really wanted to say.. |
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Post by BA on May 31, 2008 13:30:32 GMT -5
As a whole, I cannot separate what turns me on from what I find beautiful. In order for me to be "turned-on", I have to find the whole person beautiful (yes, inside and out). I do indeed, find some aspects of disability quite beautiful.
The general perception is that devotees can easily separate the what is beautiful from what is just a raw sexual turn-on. This has largely been based on findings within the male devotee community. From my experience on this board, female devotees have quite more complexity to their feelings and perceptions.
As far as the twins go, of course you can have a set of identical twins where one is disabled. One of them being in a car accident can do that, right? Given identical looks, similar personality etc., I would naturally choose the twin with the disability because that is both what turns me on and what I find to be beautiful.
We all have our standards of beauty and it doesn't always follow convention as dictated by the media.
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Post by laurasweetou on May 31, 2008 18:45:33 GMT -5
Geez the odds of finding identical twins where one is disabled would be about as good as finding a needle in a haystack GEEZ!&OMG This totally happened to me. I was at my local gas station buying smokes and such and the new cashier was a para by the name of Shawn. He was attractive, but not like drop dead or anything. I started to talk and flirt with him and we got to know each other, but, turns out he's living with someone. BUT, he's an identical twin, and one night I'm in the store (went there almost daily) and MEET his brother. After getting to know them both, and their lifestyles, I didn't want either of them So, there you have it. |
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Post by faith on Jun 1, 2008 13:33:09 GMT -5
thegoodlife- very interesting question.
Beauty and sexual attraction are two different things to me.
Beauty encompasses far more. I can think someone/something is beautiful without being sexually attracted. I think one of the most beautiful women ever is Angelina Jolie. She is stunning. If I were a guy she would be it for me. She is beautiful on the outside and has a generous heart. But she does nothing for me sexually!
I have seen qualities in men I find beautiful. There is nothing more beautiful to me than a large, handsome man volunteering his time to teach Sunday school or to pick up a crying child. Beautiful, yes. Sexual, no.
Sexual attraction does have to include beauty. I can't think of anyone I find sexually attractive that there is not some aspect I find beautiful... either physical, emotional or spiritual.
There are things that are automatic sexual turn offs for me... someone who is dirty, a smoker, mean spirited etc... but for me personally I have never been turned off by someone who is "too disabled".
And the twin scenario... initially I would be attracted to the disabled twin, of course. And all other things equal, I'd pick him.
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Post by thegoodlife on Jun 1, 2008 17:59:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the interesting answers everyone, this is really helping me understand the comunity, at least the one side of it.
AB you made a really good point when you had suggested that Devotee's might be different for each gender. The desire a male devotee has towards a disabled female might be completely different from a gay devotte might have towards a same gendered disabled individual and that might be different from the desire a female devotee (or deva) has towards a disabled man. The social dynamics might be completely different. I never really thought of that. I'm actually interested in the latter though because the latter seems to be largely ignored in the negative literature on devotees.
I had the intuition that most of you devotees would choose the disabled twin, and I find it actually fascinating that you all did. The reason I actually made the example up was to see if disability was another trait that you prefer in men; similar to a "type". For example we can adjust the example to have a few of the exact same individual, but different hair color, the "type" that one would perfer prefer would indicate that that person do in fact have a type of hair color they prefer. This is a crude example, I know, but it does suggest that most devotees sees disability not necessarily as a negative physical trait but a positive one. It would have been more interesting if some of you had chosen the AB person, since if you had it seems like you make a large distinction between something you find attractive in a man, and what you find to be a sexual turn on. That is to say, you still think disability is a negative charicter trait, but still incredibly be turned on by it.
I understand that some of you have the beauty and sexual attraction as two different things. But for those of you who suggest that they are different things, I wonder if they actually make a really distinct separation. It seems that some of you might find something beautiful but not sexually a turn on. But I wonder if you might be inclined to think that if you are sexually turned on someone, then you have to find that someone beautiful.
Faith had suggested that she (at least I think you're a she) might find someone beautiful but not a sexual turn on. I'm inclined to think this is true for a lot of people. I find a painting beautiful, but I'm not sexually turned on by it. So I wonder if you can be sexually turned on and find something not beautiful; in particular can you be sexually turned on by a person with a disability but find them not beautiful?
Faith, I also wonder if you can find someone who has the right disability that would turn you on, but have him still be mean spirited, a smoker and dirty? or do those other things automatically overide your "devoteeness"?
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Post by thegoodlife on Jun 1, 2008 18:09:30 GMT -5
You ask very good questions, that aren't that simple to answer for me, but I'll try to answer as good as possible. And as you just want our personal thoughts I can't say anything wrong this time.. For me the stuff I find beautiful and the stuff that turn me on is something different for example, I personally don't see atrophied legs and hands and stuff like that as beautiful, but somehow they can be a big turn on. But just legs itself can't be a turn on for me, the legs have to be part of a guy, and that guy has to be beautiful (beautiful is such a strange word if I'm talking about guys, but maybe in English it isn't..). So something I don't find particularly beautiful turns me on, but only in combination with something beautiful. I don't know, maybe it's about contrast or something. And someone I wouldn't find attractive at all, if he wasn't disabled is not gonna be a big turn on for me, even with a disability. Well I guess I'm a _little_ less picky with disabled guys. But hmm on the other hand I'm not really sure about that one.. For me there are different kinds of turn ons, like there are the guys I watch on youtube or in movies or see passing by on the street or something like that. There I am turned on by guys I probably wouldn't notice if they weren't disabled. Not ugly guys, but normal ones, that aren't normally my type or something. But then there is a less creepy wax to be turned on, like not just watching something on youtube, but actually having sex with someone. And there I am even pickier with disabled guys, that's not really consistent, but I try to answer your questions as honest as possible. I think I separate what I find beautiful and what turns me on. I find a beautiful guy beautiful, and some parts of him, that I don't think are beautiful, turn me on.. And the twin question: I'd definitely take the disabled twin, if I'm thinking of my "dream man" he always has some sort of disability.. Because even if I'm saying I'm for some reasons pickier with disabled guys in real life, a really hot disabled guy is still hot in a way no ab guy can be. I hope this made any sense and my English is good enough to express what I really wanted to say.. medora, thanks for your honesty. I don't think it's that inconsistent to be pickier about having actual sex with a disabled man; I'll be the first to admit it can be a daunting task, since it requires a lot of effort, patience, open mindedness, imagination and even planning. It is certainly not an easy task. And yes your post made enough sense so thank you. |
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Post by Chan on Jun 1, 2008 18:59:42 GMT -5
I had the intuition that most of you devotees would choose the disabled twin, and I find it actually fascinating that you all did. The reason I actually made the example up was to see if disability was another trait that you prefer in men; This is a crude example, I know, but it does suggest that most devotees sees disability not necessarily as a negative physical trait but a positive one. I'm sorry, but it kind of seems like you're not really aware of what devotees actually are. Otherwise, I find it *extremely* surprising that you find so many of these, seemingly obvious if you know what a devotee is, traits surprising. |
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Post by thegoodlife on Jun 1, 2008 19:21:39 GMT -5
I had the intuition that most of you devotees would choose the disabled twin, and I find it actually fascinating that you all did. The reason I actually made the example up was to see if disability was another trait that you prefer in men; This is a crude example, I know, but it does suggest that most devotees sees disability not necessarily as a negative physical trait but a positive one. I'm sorry, but it kind of seems like you're not really aware of what devotees actually are. Otherwise, I find it *extremely* surprising that you find so many of these, seemingly obvious if you know what a devotee is, traits surprising. You're right I'm afraid I don't know what devtotees actually are, I'm trying to arrive at some sort of minimum requirement as to what a devotee can actually be described as. I've read a lot of literature on the topic, but i didn't want to make any presuppositions to begin with (because presumptions can often be wrong, and misguided). Rather, I wanted to arrive at them through questions and dialogue to become more clear that's generally how you do philosophy. The truth is I was never really surprised by some and perhaps most of these answers, I just find them interesting. |
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Post by Triassic on Jun 1, 2008 21:04:34 GMT -5
i think you've been in grad school too long, amigo.  i geuss i can separate beauty from sexual attraction; certain women, i just love to look at them, yet they provoke no lust at all. the actress anne hathaway is one of these. |
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Post by laurasweetou on Jun 1, 2008 23:23:51 GMT -5
As a whole, I cannot separate what turns me on from what I find beautiful. In order for me to be "turned-on", I have to find the whole person beautiful (yes, inside and out). I do indeed, find some aspects of disability quite beautiful. The general perception is that devotees can easily separate the what is beautiful from what is just a raw sexual turn-on. This has largely been based on findings within the male devotee community. From my experience on this board, female devotees have quite more complexity to their feelings and perceptions. As far as the twins go, of course you can have a set of identical twins where one is disabled. One of them being in a car accident can do that, right? Given identical looks, similar personality etc., I would naturally choose the twin with the disability because that is both what turns me on and what I find to be beautiful. We all have our standards of beauty and it doesn't always follow convention as dictated by the media. YEAH! |
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Post by Ray T on Jun 2, 2008 10:48:56 GMT -5
I have found that wheeler women that have had dealings with devotes, over all have had bad a exp. with it. As where male wheelers who have female devs most time have good exp. could that be dew to the mothering nature of females versed the aggressive dominate nature of males.
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Post by faith on Jun 2, 2008 15:58:02 GMT -5
thegoodlife- Yes, I am a she. And, no, my devness would not override big turnoffs. |
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Post by yoell on Jun 2, 2008 22:22:54 GMT -5
I have been following this thread for a while now and i find this topic very interesting. I have spent sometime thinking about the Sexual attraction and beauty. I do believe that these thoughts are intertwined. However, they can be very separate. For example, I find redheads extremely hot. I, however, find a redhead as more of a "fetish". A redhead has more of a sexual attraction, and predominately only have sexual thoughts related to them. When it comes to beauty I really find a brunette beautiful. I don't have the same thoughts with a brunette as i do with a redhead. I tend to be more interested in the woman, and not what she has. So, I do distinct between the two. There are probably other elements out there that I find hot, but not beautiful. So, I guess my point is that you can both have a sexual attraction to something. But, at the same time most of us have something that we have only has one or the other. I am sure we always are drawn to beauty over Sexual attraction. The sexual attraction may only be viewed as a "conquest". Something that you don't need everyday, but as something you have tried. But, that is just me.
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