Mmm...

[E]

Aug 20, 2009 9:31:05 GMT -5 Pony said:

but fixation or fetish, is too much.

I'm pretty sure most devs would call their desire a fixation, and, though some may shy from the term, a fetish.

I mean, look...

Aug 8, 2009 23:44:21 GMT -5 Ciao Bella said:

Pre-relationship, everything else suffered. My career was always stop-and-go. My social life suffered because most times, I would've rathered stayed home and surf the net for anything dev-related as opposed to say, mountain climbing. I graduated much later than my counterparts in Uni because I wanted my thesis to revolve around Disability and Media - which was not approved by my panel. My previous relationships suffered because there was always something missing from these men.

Aug 12, 2009 4:01:31 GMT -5 atbrisman said:

I cant seem to work out what to do with myself aside from spending all my spare time on the web looking for para & dev info/sites etc. I feel like I am completely obsessed and it seems to be swamping other aspects of my life.

Nov 27, 2007 18:56:22 GMT -5 devogirl said:

It's not a bad thing either--it's nice not to be so obsessed and wound-up for a change.

Oct 18, 2007 15:51:37 GMT -5 devogirl said:

Yeah, but why does this issue keep coming up? Why do some devos get so upset when it's called a paraphilia or fetish? This is a major issue. Identity politics do matter.
Creative-E really hit on the inherent contradiction here: we admit that it can be an all-consuming obsession, that has had a major impact on many aspects of our lives, but then try to claim it's no different than hair color preference. The real problem, IMHO, is that women feel uncomfortable using the "fetish" label because it conjures images of mental illness, and uncontrollable sexual urges, which are scary, not normal, and definitely un-feminine. We need to think in a more sex-positive way about the whole concept of the fetish, which the second definition of "paraphilia" hints at. It's ok to have strong, specific, unusual desires. It doesn't make you a freak, or somehow "damaged" as a woman.
On the other hand, we also need to have the courage to admit that it IS a fetish or paraphilia, rather than trying to explain it away as something more socially acceptable. That only perpetuates sex-negative ideas.

Oct 18, 2007 18:29:42 GMT -5 Claire said:

There is nothing "normal" about the physical reaction that happens to me when I see an attractive wheeler in public. It's nothing like seeing any other hot AB guy. It's not like your average everyday preference.

Jul 16, 2009 23:26:45 GMT -5 lindab535 said:

It's more or less a private - though sometimes all-consuming - fantasy for me.

Apr 27, 2009 9:12:43 GMT -5 @aliceofwonder said:

anything in the T level really turns me on, i saw this young guy wheel past my work the other day he was really athletic and buff, i nearly had an orgasm watching him. that is my kind of man.

There are a bunch more, even more compelling quotes, but they are in the Devs Only section... you get the idea, though.

Devoteeism isn't like your standard preference. It's nothing like preferring blondes or brunettes. I did not start researching brunettes before puberty, nor does my work suffer if there's no brunette in my life. I don't go weeks where I can think about nothing except for brunettes. I don't read and write short novels about girls with dark hair. I don't search for them on YouTube, either. How did most devotees find this site? By researching online. I've never once hammered Google, poring over the sites, looking for more info on brunettes or, for that matter, any of my preferences.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, not at all. I happen to like it. But I hate to see it watered down for our political correctness... or for consumption by the public. We're here on the Paradevo message board. Can't we be honest?

[Inigo Montoya]

Then I will honestly say that Tony's words bother me and I see them a lot here. Or versions of them. No, nobody wants to only be wanted for their physical attributes, I've spent my lifetime wanting to be wanted for WHO I am and feeling unwanted because physically I am not what the average man seems to want. So, I want to say up front that I understand where those words come from. And I respect them.

However, I also (for today... maybe only for the next 5 minutes) want admit that they sting. Words like that make me feel like a freak. I know that they're not meant that way. And I don't want anyone to feel as if they have to censor what they say. But just like you guys complain about devs only wanting specific levels of disability, you too only want women who only have a hint of devness. If I'm talking to someone, even from here, I'm not going to mention that I watch youtube videos or write occasional para/quad porn. Honesty is incredibly important to me and this makes me feel enough of a freak that I've lied to people about how I found this place... (If I don't remember for sure then it's not a TOTAL lie... right?)

It's a problem for me. The one time I was face to face with a wheeler, he said things that I took that way. That the physical attraction to his disability was not to be trusted as part of a relationship. He didn't directly say it about HIM or ME, but if he said it about someone else then why should I assume that it's not what he thinks about the entire thing?!? How am I not supposed to think it's me and my fetish that he doesn't trust? How do you get beyond that? What can you say to alleviate someone's fears? What have we NOT already said? How can you trust that they/he understands that you like WHO he is if you always have this between you? How can he trust it?

I'm not striving for political correctness when I say that the disability alone doesn't attract me, I'm speaking from personal experience. Because if that were it, well then I'd cream my panties for every man I see in a wheelchair, right? And that doesn't happen, not to me and not to anyone else here (from what I've read). I can't quantify what it is about a particular guy. Can anybody? It's something that I don't understand about myself, where it came from. I mean, how the hell you can know pre-puberty that there's something "not right" about the way you feel about something? (That's where the freak feeling started for me.) Sometimes, I get so f*cking tired of examining and trying to figure it out so that I can explain. Because it's got to have an explanation, right? Do other people with fetishes poke and examine them like this?

I'm sitting here right now feeling like a freak. I started to say... not like a Rick James freak but I think it is... after all he wouldn't take her home to mother... right?

I'm sorry... I think I'm rambling, so I'll stop. And I'm sorry that it bothers so many of you. I wish I could fix that.

Oh... and bananas... sorry for the hijack... I do love your story and the way you skirted morning breath.

[Pony]

Hey Clove I'm sincerely sorry if I made you feel bad, or weird. I didn't mean to. I was just rambling about my preference the same as I hear Devs, for lack of a better word, I really hate that word, state their preference about what kind of disable guy they like. I've heard girls on hear want struggling amblers to low-paras to amputees to blind guys. My preference is that a girl I'm interested in romantically isn't TOO into the chair thang. But hey, every situation is different. Nothing is written in stone, and who knows...

Anyway, sorry if I hurt you. Really!!

Bananas, stop reading, and get back to writing!!

[BA]

Aug 20, 2009 19:27:59 GMT -5 Pony said:

My preference is that a girl I'm interested in romantically isn't TOO into the chair thang.

What it sounds like you are requesting is a girl that 'tolerates' and/or 'can deal with' the chair and likes you 'despite' it. Devs, as a whole are not in the "can take it or leave it" category. It is a strong preference for us.

Remember, devs don't fall in love or lust with a piece of equiptment. We desire a person and it's got to be a person that we have chemistry with - strong chemistry. Once again, your post makes it sound like you still believe we are simply hot for the chair and not the person in it. You've been on this site for a long, long time. I thought you understood all this by now.

[Inigo Montoya]

I know that you didn't mean to, Tony, and it's okay. Truly. You're definitely not the only wheeler who's ever said that or something like it. And I get it, I swear I do.

It's just that there's nothing I can do about it, you know?

[mike]

Clover,

My impression is this: For a dis, of course we don't want a relationship that is based on only one single part of who we are as humans. I don't think dev's do either. Imagine if you were with a dis and the only thing they ever talked about was their disability, that would get really boring really fast. How about if the ONLY thing that was talked about was your ears? After a little while you would get tired of that too.

That said, at least for me, the depth of your interest in disability isn't important, I really don't care if a dev is idly curious or mentally glued to the subject - as long as that's not the only thing going on.

So Clover, don't think you must moderate your fascination to be liked, but in the interest of remaining interesting don't become exclusively focused.

Imagine how you want to be viewed as a person, and project that onto the other person and you are probably fine. And by the way, I don't mind how much time you have spent researching the subject, what's the difference if the same amount of time & energy was spent reading torrid romance novels? You wouldn't be a bad person if you did that would you? Of course not. And as long as you can occasionally put the 'romance novel' down and be a real person, you're just fine.

[devogirl]

Tony, I know you're a nice guy and you mean well, but your comment was a bit hurtful, if unintentionally so. You said you didn't even want to KNOW a devotee who is obsessive, but as E pointed out, most of us do feel that way, at least from time to time. It doesn't mean we can't function in society, or have a healthy relationship. I think it's a big misconception that fetish = mental illness, or at least serious dysfunction.

I think the reason this is upsetting is not because being a dev is the only thing in our lives, but because we devs often feel guilty or ashamed for being so obsessed (also why a lot of women don't like to use the word fetish). Also as Clover has said, it's incredibly hurtful to have your devo feelings thrown back at you. If you admit to your partner how you really feel, then he uses your confession as a way to invalidate your love for him and the relationship as a whole, it's devastating. It's happened to me more than once, and I know it's happened to others as well.

[Inigo Montoya]

To be fair, like Tony, that guy didn't meant to cause pain. He later said so. =/

I really hate to think what it would be like to have it thrown at you in anger or with the intent to hurt.

[mike]

Devogirl,

I have seen more than one reference from various people similar to yours, when you said

"I think it's a big misconception that fetish = mental illness, or at least serious dysfunction."

This is something I don't understand. Has anyone ever actually suggested that to you, or is this possibly a projection based upon your own anxiety?

To me, I haven't yet met a dev who seemed "mentally ill". I suppose it could happen, but I don't think the fascination is any different that a guy showing lots of interest in female breasts. People who read sexy magazines aren't necessarily ill are they?

As far as the sexual component, remember the old adage "I don't care where you get your appetite, as long as you eat at home." Well that's my attitude, as long as you don't scare the horses, everything will be just fine.

If someone did in fact make that assertion to you, isn't that strongly suggestive that they were feeling threatened? Forgive me for being so slow, but what exactly is it about the attraction that triggers guilt? Because it's not "mainstream"?

[roger888]

Dont often have the time to check out the stories page,but all of a sudden this debate makes me want to..

[Inigo Montoya]

Thanks, bananas. ;D I think you do a great job of explaining. And if I'm a Freak then you can be a Supa' Freak. :-P lol

[Claire]

Aug 20, 2009 21:38:28 GMT -5 devogirl said:

Tony, I know you're a nice guy and you mean well, but your comment was a bit hurtful, if unintentionally so. You said you didn't even want to KNOW a devotee who is obsessive, but as E pointed out, most of us do feel that way, at least from time to time. It doesn't mean we can't function in society, or have a healthy relationship. I think it's a big misconception that fetish = mental illness, or at least serious dysfunction.

I felt exactly the same way. And to take it a step further, it's also a misconception that mental illness = can't function in society.

[Inigo Montoya]

Mike, I skipped you and I shouldn't have... I'm sorry... I do appreciate the time and energy that you put into trying to ease my stress.

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

Clover,

My impression is this: For a dis, of course we don't want a relationship that is based on only one single part of who we are as humans. I don't think dev's do either.

Yeah, Mike, I thought that I said that right off the bat. We are in total agreement there. And I think you'll see that same thing said forty billion different ways by many different women on here.

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

Imagine if you were with a dis and the only thing they ever talked about was their disability, that would get really boring really fast. ... After a little while you would get tired of that too.

I've actually had that happen a couple of times im'ing. A man only wants to talk about his disability... and it makes me uncomfortable. I assume when that happens that it's BECAUSE I'm a dev. I wouldn't imagine that a person's only topic of convo with everyone they meet is their disability. Maybe I'm a weirdo among devs, but if you mention your bathroom habits in our first conversation then I'm not likely to talk to you again. Because what I'm thinking is that YOU think that's my depth. That I'm so shallow that I don't see you as the entire person you are, when it's the entire person that I'm looking to get to know.

Or, even better, I've recently had an experience where once a man found out I was a dev our conversation turned completely to sex and wouldn't leave. Woot... loving that, right? What woman doesn't? An interesting and intelligent man and to him I'm apparently... simply a talking vagina.

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

That said, at least for me, the depth of your interest in disability isn't important, I really don't care if a dev is idly curious or mentally glued to the subject - as long as that's not the only thing going on.

I am so not mentally glued to the subject. I'm pretty much a very curious want-to-know-everything-about-you kind of person. Unless I'm totally oblivious to myself, in which case all this searching and inner work is for naught.... wasted time.

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

So Clover, don't think you must moderate your fascination to be liked, but in the interest of remaining interesting don't become exclusively focused.

Thanks, Mike, I appreciate that. I truly hope that others who talk to me find me an interesting conversationalist.

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

Imagine how you want to be viewed as a person, and project that onto the other person and you are probably fine.

This is an attitude I try to take into ALL my interactions with other people. I think I've heard it referred to as the Golden Rule, right? Treat others as you'd like to be treated?

Aug 20, 2009 20:32:13 GMT -5 mike said:

And by the way, I don't mind how much time you have spent researching the subject, what's the difference if the same amount of time & energy was spent reading torrid romance novels? You wouldn't be a bad person if you did that would you? Of course not. And as long as you can occasionally put the 'romance novel' down and be a real person, you're just fine.

This is funny.... because I do read too many torrid romance novels. They're fun escapism. And I do hide it because it has a tendency to make people take you less seriously.

Thanks for your reply, Mike, I appreciate what you've said and hope you get something out of what I've said. And I apologize for the length of this post... geeze...

[Dee Dee]

Aug 20, 2009 15:09:26 GMT -5 E said:

Aug 20, 2009 9:31:05 GMT -5 Pony said:

but fixation or fetish, is too much.

I'm pretty sure most devs would call their desire a fixation, and, though some may shy from the term, a fetish.

I mean, look...

There are a bunch more, even more compelling quotes, but they are in the Devs Only section... you get the idea, though.

Devoteeism isn't like your standard preference. It's nothing like preferring blondes or brunettes. I did not start researching brunettes before puberty, nor does my work suffer if there's no brunette in my life. I don't go weeks where I can think about nothing except for brunettes. I don't read and write short novels about girls with dark hair. I don't search for them on YouTube, either. How did most devotees find this site? By researching online. I've never once hammered Google, poring over the sites, looking for more info on brunettes or, for that matter, any of my preferences.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, not at all. I happen to like it. But I hate to see it watered down for our political correctness... or for consumption by the public. We're here on the Paradevo message board. Can't we be honest?

I´d personally call it a fetish - and I´d happily "admit" that it is - if I cannot do it here, then where else? However; I think devoteeism is more than a fetish; I believe that it´s part of my personal habitus or perhaps even a way of thinking ... along with all the other things or phenomenons which define me as a person.

(What I said here fits into the "Etiology of Devness"-thread as well).

[Pony]

I knew I was holding the lighter too close to the gasoline when I wrote it, but it's good to have a BIG ole bon fire. lol

Again, I'm truly sorry if my post made anyone feel 'freaky'...labels have a LOT of gray area, so whether it's a fetish or attraction, or obsession, I guess there's mild to severe. Clove, I think somewhere you said it hurts coz you can't change it. There are times when I've felt hurt on here coz I didn't meet the criteria of the specific disability that a Dev likes. Maybe 'hurt' is too strong of word - more like 'left out.' It's kinda like being black. There's no changing it, and some chicks aren't going to go out with no matter how great the chemistry is. I like most peeps on here, but not sure how many dev-types I'd go out with, depending on the level of Devness...it's merely a preference, but definitely not meant to hurt anyone. And like I said, 'nothing's written in stone'...i've broken my own rules before!!! ; )

I'm kind of sorry I mentioned it, but it has def got some interesting conversation FIRED up!!! And that can't be all bad.