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Post by ruthmadison on Apr 28, 2011 14:08:40 GMT -5
This is an interesting article about the statement made by Rachel Maddow that gay news reporters have a responsibility to openly identify as gay. It sounds like the idea is that more people being out would challenge the assumptions of those who are being prejudiced against them. I see parallels in our situation, so I wonder what people think about this. I still see it as a personal choice, but I think it would be awesome to live in a world where we did not hide. How might be get there? www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201104/is-coming-out-responsibility |
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Lindsay :)
Full Member
Smile, It's a Good Day
Posts: 221
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Post by Lindsay :) on Apr 28, 2011 16:13:15 GMT -5
I don't think that anyone needs to out any information about themselves unless a) they want to or b) it directly affects another person. We do not expect straight new reports to openly identify themselves as straight. Why should we expect this of a gay reporter.
I do not see it as a personal choice but something that is determined genetically. Being a woman who has kissed a lot of women (as well as had sexual experiences with women) I can say with 100% honesty that my attraction to men is ingrained. I never sat down and thought about it and said "You know what, Lindsay, you're going to be straight and like men." It just is what it is.
I don't think that any gay person has done this either. They may think they like the opposite sex (as that is what they are often told and lead to believe is "normal") but when it comes to real attraction, who you like is just as pre-determined as what hand you write with. (FYI - up to as late as the 1970s schools would try to force left-handed children to write with their right hands. The idea was that if they practiced hard enough they could "retrain" their brains regarding the dominant and submissive sides of the body. It never worked and this teaching method is not used anymore.)
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Post by merry on Apr 29, 2011 14:52:04 GMT -5
Been thinking about this for a bit since you started the thread. I can see why you use the term "responsibility" here. In a way a lot of what we perceive as prejudice is nothing more than ignorance - largely because devoteeism is such an unknown phenomenon. I've read so many times in these posts how liberating it is for someone to discover that they are not "alone", that there is a "term" for what they are etc. So I think that increasing awareness may be a responsibility. But in today's day and age it is possible to do that without necessarily "coming" out. As was joked about in the "you know you're a dev when..." thread, many of us have separate online "dev" identities, and it is possible for us to be quite open and vulnerable about all aspects of our devoteeism without "coming out" to those near to us. When deciding whether or not to come out I think that's a very personal decision for each person to make. If being "in the closet" is somehow restricting one or other of one's relationships, then maybe coming out is a good thing. But I don't think it's a necessity yet. For now I think we need to just be more "out there" even if it is undercover. Posting on forums like this, blogging honestly, writing stories, making films etc that show the "positive" sides of ourselves: the honesty, vulnerability, mixed feelings, self-searching and genuine passion around disability issues that I see here are beautiful and very human. We need to tip the balance away from ideas of sexual predation and need for dominance that seem to be more pervasive...
I think that needs to happen so that we can create a safer space for "celebrity" devs to start identifying themselves. Do you think there are any???
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Post by ruthmadison on Apr 29, 2011 15:38:01 GMT -5
The word "responsibility" was used in the article, so that's why I used that. That's the question with homosexuality and the author of the article compared it to atheism. I saw parallels for us.
But really, I don't think we have a responsibility to. The world is not a safe place.
I don't know how to make it safe for us, but I'm doing whatever I can!
We can't require people to move into their own identity faster than they are ready to and we can't require people to expose themselves to the negativity that's out there.
I think some of us are ready to be "out" and others are not, and that's just fine. This will become a known and accepted thing someday, but maybe not in our lifetimes.
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Post by Emma on Apr 29, 2011 15:39:59 GMT -5
I think that needs to happen so that we can create a safer space for "celebrity" devs to start identifying themselves. Do you think there are any??? Yeah in my opinion Ruth Madison is a celebrity dev ;D |
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Post by ruthmadison on Apr 29, 2011 16:23:44 GMT -5
I think that needs to happen so that we can create a safer space for "celebrity" devs to start identifying themselves. Do you think there are any??? Yeah in my opinion Ruth Madison is a celebrity dev ;D  I'm sure she means people who would influence the greater society. Like if, say, Jennifer Aniston announced that she was a dev, the way people think about us and look at us would change quite a bit! Wow, that thought is so hilarious it makes me want to write a story where that happens. |
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Post by BA on Apr 29, 2011 21:43:21 GMT -5
Been thinking about this for a bit since you started the thread. I can see why you use the term "responsibility" here. In a way a lot of what we perceive as prejudice is nothing more than ignorance - largely because devoteeism is such an unknown phenomenon. I've read so many times in these posts how liberating it is for someone to discover that they are not "alone", that there is a "term" for what they are etc. So I think that increasing awareness may be a responsibility. But in today's day and age it is possible to do that without necessarily "coming" out. As was joked about in the "you know you're a dev when..." thread, many of us have separate online "dev" identities, and it is possible for us to be quite open and vulnerable about all aspects of our devoteeism without "coming out" to those near to us. When deciding whether or not to come out I think that's a very personal decision for each person to make. If being "in the closet" is somehow restricting one or other of one's relationships, then maybe coming out is a good thing. But I don't think it's a necessity yet. For now I think we need to just be more "out there" even if it is undercover. Posting on forums like this, blogging honestly, writing stories, making films etc that show the "positive" sides of ourselves: the honesty, vulnerability, mixed feelings, self-searching and genuine passion around disability issues that I see here are beautiful and very human. We need to tip the balance away from ideas of sexual predation and need for dominance that seem to be more pervasive... I think that needs to happen so that we can create a safer space for "celebrity" devs to start identifying themselves. Do you think there are any??? Exactly everything Merry said. Exactly. |
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Post by devogirl on Apr 30, 2011 20:52:26 GMT -5
Sigh. As great as it might be if a big celebrity came out as a dev, I don't think it will happen anytime soon. Look at how hard it still is for big-name stars to come out as lesbians. Even though there is so much more acceptance and plenty of gay celebrities, the biggest female movie and TV stars still have to project a very specific, narrowly defined image, and non-standard sexuality is definitely not part of that. And even though there is small number of out gay stars, how many female celebrities have owned up to any of the more common kinks? (SM, furries, latex, whatever) I can't think of any. It's ok for men, but not for women  No wonder we feel so much shame and embarrassment. |
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Post by ruthmadison on May 1, 2011 6:51:17 GMT -5
So true. The different ways that society sees men and women gets to me. As a girl I feel like I'm not supposed to express sexuality at all.
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Post by Circuit on May 1, 2011 12:39:35 GMT -5
Those female stereotypes hold true for nearly all forms of media, sadly enough. Movies, television, theater...I've pretty much condensed all of the parts in which adult women are cast in theater into roughly four roles: the love interest, the witch, the mom and the ho-bag.  Usually I'd just wind up cast as a little boy. Raising devoteeism awareness could help broaden that narrow view society and the media seem to have of women, right? Maybe the best way to do that is through the media itself. Scripts, books, screenplays, games, webcomics, whatever we can get that portrays us and does it in a positive light. It seems more important to get any good female devotee role model out there than to wait around for a celebrity to come out. |
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Post by ruthmadison on May 1, 2011 16:45:52 GMT -5
I'm working on a couple of stories featuring female devs who are out of the closet and matter of fact about it!
My writer's group just critiqued the first one, so I think it should be ready soon and I'm submitting the second one this month.
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Post by Circuit on May 1, 2011 18:31:58 GMT -5
Awesome! I've heard great things about (W)hole, so I'm totally stoked that you're writing more. Best of luck with the submission!  I'm impressed with a lot of the writing that's been posted to PD.net, actually. Romance is really tough to write well. If I tried a shot at one, it'd probably wind up more comedic than romantic. XD |
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Post by ruthmadison on May 2, 2011 7:15:22 GMT -5
Awesome! I've heard great things about (W)hole, so I'm totally stoked that you're writing more. Best of luck with the submission! I'm impressed with a lot of the writing that's been posted to PD.net, actually. Romance is really tough to write well. If I tried a shot at one, it'd probably wind up more comedic than romantic. XD There are a lot of good stories! I've also been impressed with the quality of the writing here. It makes me happy that I'm not the only one telling these sorts of stories |
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Post by Neffie on May 6, 2011 15:56:15 GMT -5
I have to say i would be happier if she looked less like a dyke.
I hate to say it but it's not like it would have been a shock to her MSNBC collegues. She is so gay it's unreal!
It's empowering and I'm really happy for her but I DON'T RELATE TO HER AT ALL.
She's comfortable with her gayness which is great but she's just too fired up for me. I like my gay women to be under the radar
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Post by Enid on May 6, 2011 17:43:40 GMT -5
I have to say i would be happier if she looked less like a d*ke. I hate to say it but it's not like it would have been a shock to her MSNBC collegues. She is so gay it's unreal! It's empowering and I'm really happy for her but I DON'T RELATE TO HER AT ALL. She's comfortable with her gayness which is great but she's just too fired up for me. I like my gay women to be under the radar I'm sorry, but I just can't stay quiet about this. This is the most homophobic, misogynist and offensive comment I've seen on this board in a while. First, Rachel Maddow is hot. I'm sorry if you can't appreciate that, but plenty of lesbian and bisexual women out there do. Second, maybe we could stop judging people for what they look like. No, really. Her appearance might tip people to the fact that she's a lesbian, but that's not a crime. I'm sick of people who complain about butch lesbians and feminine gay dudes. They have as much as a right to be as they are as the ones who "pass" for straight. And third, who the fuck cares if you relate to her? |
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No wonder we feel so much shame and embarrassment.
Usually I'd just wind up cast as a little boy. 
