Privacy

[dolly]

May 5, 2011 0:40:23 GMT -5 @merry said:

It might be interesting to post a similar thread to this in the open section to see what the guys here think about what they read in the devs-only section (and how many of them read it...)

please don't!

we've worked hard to keep our little area separate and as "private" as is possible.

if a dev wants to know what the guys think about something, ask them. in general terms, and without reference to any conversation in the devs only section.

but please keep devs only... as devs only. that's the point!

[dentelle]

Hi

I was actually on a forum that did have complete privacy. It was a daycare forum and the only way you could get into the 'At the End of My Leash' subject area, was if you were or had been a daycare giver. It was a place where you could rant without the parents reading and there were some mighty rants that came out of the ladies. They saved my sanity more than once and I didn't feel like I was alone any more.

But that was something completely different and it's pretty friendly here I'm starting to feel at home here as well. Some of you have hit on some things that I found inside of myself.

Oh well, off for supper

[doe]

May 5, 2011 18:19:58 GMT -5 lucretia said:

May 5, 2011 17:37:26 GMT -5 dolly said:

please don't!

we've worked hard to keep our little area separate and as "private" as is possible.

if a dev wants to know what the guys think about something, ask them. in general terms, and without reference to any conversation in the devs only section.

but please keep devs only... as devs only. that's the point!

But there ARE times when something has come up and a few of have wondered what the guy's take on this would be??

It's seems almost unfair to NOT ask them. I wonder if there would be a way, when that happens, to just post a completely unattached thread in the general board, without referencing devs only, or any specific posts.

Let's really discuss this, to see how we can keep dialogue going between devs and wheelers, while maintaining a safe place for devs to hang out when they need a break or some privacy.

I too, hope that we can come to some logical consensus on this. I agree with your comments Lucretia... but fear that no matter how general a statement is made in General, if the subject was also being discussed in Devs Only, some would always find the linkage offensive no matter how innocuous it is. As the matter is rather subjective, it might help us all if those who take offense at the cross referencing give some general examples of what they consider to be acceptable and not acceptable (without attacking anyone please - if that's at all possible).

The funny thing is... all of us who have seemingly been tripped up on this issue have never set out to intentionally hurt or disrespect anyone, a fact that I think is lost in the debate. Healthy discussion by as many members as possible that does not come at the expense of an individual can only be good for the board and this community.

[Dee Dee]

In the previous post, Doe was asking for examples of acceptable/non-acceptable cross-references.

I am one of the devs who think cross-references should be allowed as long as they are done respectfully and without name-dropping or -calling.

EXAMPLE:

Acceptable behaviour and cross-referencing:

Devs Only Section:

Devodiva88:

"I really want to have a three-some with two hot and cute wheelers ".

General section:

Member A: "Let us have a discussion about three-somes, whether they be with ABs, wheelers or a mix thereof"

Other members chime in with their views on the subject at hand.

Non-acceptable behaviour and cross-referencing:

Devs Only Section:

Devodiva88:

"I really want to have a three-some with two hot and cute wheelers ".

General section:

Member A:

"Did you see in the Devs only section, that Devodiva88 wants to bang TWO wheelers at a time?! WOW, I want PIX of that - LOL"

Other members chime in to comment on how immoral and apparently sex-hungry Devodiva88 really is.

(Please note the colour scheme for easy understanding: green = acceptable, red = non-acceptable )

[Lindsay :)]

May 5, 2011 20:25:50 GMT -5 Dee Dee said:

In the previous post, Doe was asking for examples of acceptable/non-acceptable cross-references.

I am one of the devs who think cross-references should be allowed as long as they are done respectfully and without name-dropping or -calling.

EXAMPLE:

Acceptable behaviour and cross-referencing:

Devs Only Section:

Devodiva88:

"I really want to have a three-some with two hot and cute wheelers ".

General section:

Member A: "Let us have a discussion about three-somes, whether they be with ABs, wheelers or a mix thereof"

Other members chime in with their views on the subject at hand.

Non-acceptable behaviour and cross-referencing:

Devs Only Section:

Devodiva88:

"I really want to have a three-some with two hot and cute wheelers ".

General section:

Member A:

"Did you see in the Devs only section, that Devodiva88 wants to bang TWO wheelers at a time?! WOW, I want PIX of that - LOL"

Other members chime in to comment on how immoral and apparently sex-hungry Devodiva88 really is.

(Please note the colour scheme for easy understanding: green = acceptable, red = non-acceptable )

I think this would work great in theory but don't see it being successful in practicality. Right now, as the "devs only" section the guy wheelers are not allowed to post their comments or reference conversations that take place on here in the general board.

BUT there is NOTHING to keep them from reading here.

The acceptable reference you give an example of will only work as long as none of the guy wheelers read this section. Personally, I don't see that happening, especially if a juicy comment such as 3-some (or anything else that is just the *slightest* bit risque or sexual) comes up.

I completely understand the desire to have a place that is devs only. And if we can find a way to make it truly devs only then I would be 100% welcoming of it. But until that happens, I see this the same as any other board and fully expect the guys to read what we say.

[Lindsay :)]

One more idea to keep in mind. On the front page for the message board is a link that says "the 10 most recent posts" (or something to that effect...). And when that link is clicked, it shows - literally - the 10 most recent posts.

ALL of the "devs only" posts display there. So, even if the guy wheelers try to respect our section and don't intentionally come into the dev's board, they are STILL shown our posts through the "10 most recent posts" link.

It also does NOT say what board the post belongs to until the commenter hits the "quote" or "reply" link - honestly, I'm very surprised more wheelers haven't posted baere accidentally. Being a dev I don't have to worry about what board I'm posting on and often will not have ANY idea as to where my comments go until after I have written and posted them.

Just more food for thought...

[Dee Dee]

Lindz, this is why it is SO important to discuss it and bring examples to the table.

Of course it can work with the wheelers reading the Devs only section and then bring up a subject in the general section on a general basis.

With my example I was aiming at demonstrating how a subject can be carefully worded to NOT insult or harm anyone and how it can be the exact opposite.

We live in free countries with freedom of speech. Fortunately.

It SHOULD be possible to discuss general subjects in the general section even if it has also been touched upon here. No one can claim ownership of a subject, but we can ask people to discuss subjects in a respectful way .

[Lindsay :)]

May 5, 2011 20:54:42 GMT -5 Dee Dee said:

With my example I was aiming at demonstrating how a subject can be carefully worded to NOT insult or harm anyone and how it can be the exact opposite.

We live in free countries with freedom of speech. Fortunately.

It SHOULD be possible to discuss general subjects in the general section even if it has also been touched upon here. No one can claim ownership of a subject, but we can ask people to discuss subjects in a respectful way .

This makes a bit more sense. And in this case - where the end goal is a respectful lack of name dropping, I absolutely agree with you. I think that names should be left out of all references, not just on this board but as a general rule in life as well.

I'm coming off an almost 13 hour work day (8am to 9pm) and when I first read your idea it gave me the impression you envisioned complete secrecy regarding the original post and that didn't seem possible.

[dolly]

May 5, 2011 17:37:26 GMT -5 dolly said:

if a dev wants to know what the guys think about something, ask them. in general terms, and without reference to any conversation in the devs only section.

ya, lucretia, that's what i was trying to say. and what i have tried to explain before.


people can ask whatever question they want on the general board, of course. just don't [orange]mention, reference[/orange] or [orange]link to[/orange] a [orange]conversation, opinion[/orange] or [orange]topic[/orange] that is in the devs only section.


it can be the same question/topic. just omit any mention that it's already been discussed in devs only.

a clean, fresh thread is not a problem. it's only when it's linked to our conversation here in some way that it violates the devs only policy and is not respectful to the people who post here.


asking them what they think of what we say in the devs only section is not cool.

asking them how they feel about something you don't tie-in directly to a devs only conversation is perfectly fine.


ie.

devs like the sound of tires squeaking on the floor. what do you think about that? [orange]= cool[/orange]

in dev's only we were talking about the sound of tires squeaking on the floor and how much we like that. what do you think about that? [orange]= not cool[/orange]



eta:
i'm super tired and the choice of conversation topic in my example was a bit odd (lol!) so i changed it. i need to go to bed!

[dolly]

just wanted to add...

the devs only section *has* been working, just fine, apart from a couple of infrequent slip-ups.

and in all of those cases some simple editing and a quick apology was/would have been all that was needed to rectify the situation.

newer members often seem to want to illuminate ways that it doesn't work. which i don't understand... since it has worked and will continue to work as long as the guys are respectful and we as devs think for a moment before we post on the general boards.

it's easy to start a topic on *anything* without referencing something that has gone on here, isn't it?

[merry]

Don't worry - I'm not going to jump in a post a thread out there just like that ;D (that's why I floated the idea here first - to gauge where people were). I agree, I think the devs-only section works pretty well from what I've seen. What I was suggesting was not so much asking for comments on specific issues raised in the devs-only section, but rather just asking a general question re the section of the guys (especially those who've been here for a while). What I want to know is whether any of them have had their ideas on devoteeism changed positively because they have access to what we write in devs-only. We know anecdotally that having it open to read has helped other devs realise that they're not alone (and at least here are "normal"). AM I the only one curious to know whether it makes the guys more accepting of us (or did all the guys who are here never have a problem with the idea of devoteeism)?

I don't know - there may have been an "opinion thread" on this for the guys at an earlier date. If so, I'd be curious to see what they said...Please someone send me a link if such a thread exists...

And Lindz: Your point re "new topics" is a very good one...

[dolly]

if you want to ask how the wheelers feel about devs in general after finding this board, that's fine. their responses would then be derived from everything they've personally been exposed to here (ie. devs only if they've read there). i'd be really uncomfortable and frankly very perturbed if you asked them (on the board) how they feel about what they read in the devs only section.

those of us who have been here for a long time have worked hard to preserve (and enforce) our little corner of our home. many of the guys here claim to respect our section enough not to read it, and practically all of the guys here respect us enough to not elude to their reading it.

this didn't happen overnight, and i would take offense to it intentionally being undone by a single post, especially by a new member.

am i glad that the guys are here at paradevo to add their perspective and experience? yes. is the board about them? no. i don't think a lot of them would answer a question like that truthfully anyway. i can't ultimately care what they think of devs as it's not like i can change who i am. and the truth is the guys here a) don't really understand us, b) don't really want to or would rather see what they want to see or c) accept us and love us for who we are. only time will bring clairty to who is who, their responses to a loaded question like that would not necessarily do so.

the most important thing about this board (and it's intended purpose) is to bring devs together to talk amongst themselves and find support and understanding with others like themselves.

the wheelers here are mostly great. but i don't see a reason to violate the safest place we have to talk by inviting their feedback on what we say there. the whole reason devs only came about was to prevent that.

once you open that door, you can't shut it. the door is there for a reason.

[merry]

Hi again Dolly. Your position is obvious and very clear, and I respect that. Also, as you mentioned I am a new member which is EXACTLY WHY I have asked what I have asked here INSTEAD of posting willy-nilly into the general board. Please don't panic, I am NOT going to do anything rash - I'll leave that more senior members

[dolly]

May 6, 2011 9:27:10 GMT -5 @merry said:

Hi again Dolly. Your position is obvious and very clear, and I respect that. Also, as you mentioned I am a new member which is EXACTLY WHY I have asked what I have asked here INSTEAD of posting willy-nilly into the general board. Please don't panic, I am NOT going to do anything rash - I'll leave that more senior members

merry, i totally get how cool it is to find this place and get involved and want to devour all the information at once. so, please don't think i am taking offense to you or your thoughts/questions, personally. you've joined the board gracefully and enthusiastically. i'm so happy you found us and you seem to already be a great addition to our family.

i just get a little confounded about the confusion, in general. i don't understand why people can't just ask questions on the general board (whatever they may be!) and leave any reference to the devs only section out of it. maybe i am missing something? it just seems so simple to me.

it also seems that these conversations or the times when the sanctity of the devs only section (such as it is!) get compromised tend to occur just when i feel like i want to share some personal experiences here or ask for support. it's just bad timing i guess. but it makes me feel less safe to open up and share with you guys... in the only place i have to do so. i find that sad and disappointing. and i think it defeats the purpose of the board. but that's my personal issue.

[Cake]

May 6, 2011 9:13:58 GMT -5 dolly said:

if you want to ask how the wheelers feel about devs in general after finding this board, that's fine. their responses would then be derived from everything they've personally been exposed to here (ie. devs only if they've read there). i'd be really uncomfortable and frankly very perturbed if you asked them (on the board) how they feel about what they read in the devs only section.

those of us who have been here for a long time have worked hard to preserve (and enforce) our little corner of our home. many of the guys here claim to respect our section enough not to read it, and practically all of the guys here respect us enough to not elude to their reading it.

this didn't happen overnight, and i would take offense to it intentionally being undone by a single post, especially by a new member.

am i glad that the guys are here at paradevo to add their perspective and experience? yes. is the board about them? no. i don't think a lot of them would answer a question like that truthfully anyway. i can't ultimately care what they think of devs as it's not like i can change who i am. and the truth is the guys here a) don't really understand us, b) don't really want to or would rather see what they want to see or c) accept us and love us for who we are. only time will bring clairty to who is who, their responses to a loaded question like that would not necessarily do so.

the most important thing about this board (and it's intended purpose) is to bring devs together to talk amongst themselves and find support and understanding with others like themselves.

the wheelers here are mostly great. but i don't see a reason to violate the safest place we have to talk by inviting their feedback on what we say there. the whole reason devs only came about was to prevent that.

once you open that door, you can't shut it. the door is there for a reason.

It won't come as a surprise, but: I like!