Bruno article--what about altruism?

[damedevo]

Has anybody read this soundly condemning article by Richard Bruno, PhD?

"Devotees, Pretenders And Wannabes: Two Cases Of Factitious Disability Disorder"
www.overground.be/article.php?code=72&lan=EN

I'm dismayed to find that I fit much of the psychological profile he describes. But I also think Bruno leaves out the important point that psychological "projection" (of the dev's own desire for care and attention, in this case) is very close to altruism.

For instance: Before I ever became pregnant, I was aware that I desperately wanted a chance to do a better job raising a child than my parents had done with me. My daughter is now in adolescence, and I'm extremely gratified to see how confident and engaging she is. Other parents and her teachers remark on it. Her best friends are uniformly kind and smart.

My success in not f--king her up has been a great salve to my soul. True, things could still fall apart during her teen years; but at her present age (nearly 12), I was already chronically depressed with periods of enraged "pressured speech" (which I could not control) and an eating disorder. She sings all day.

So, what if I had eschewed motherhood, on the basis that my wish to compensate for my own crappy upbringing was merely a pathologic response that would make me into a dangerous mother? Bruno thinks all devs are dangerous psychos, from which disabled people should flee.

Maybe some devs are stuck in "projection." Maybe the transformation to altruism comes with the dev's ability to pick someone who can be caring, in return, and to recognize, "I wish someone had been this caring toward me, when I was younger." (I also think a tender and caring partner is a sexy partner.)

What do other devs and wheeler dudes think? Does a dev's wish to make a positive difference in the life of a wheeler constitute a sicko "projection"--or rather its transformation into legitimate altruism, from which both parties can benefit?

[mrjefffurz]

i can certainly relate to what u say about your wishes to be a good parent stemming from your own childhood...my upbringing had the best of worlds & the worst...but i did my very best to give my daughter what i never got,,,time,,a sympathetic ear,,,and total acceptance...i think she is a fine young woman despite my ex'es best attempts to mess her up...which has left my baby scarred maybe permanently...then on the good side,,the maiden aunt that was my childhood nanny, for lack of a better word,,,had a huge influence in my formation of how women should be treated and the kind of woman i fnd attractive cant be under-stated...personally, from what i'm learning here is that women who view we crips as something special seem to not have the fear of the "unknown" ie. us...that the general female population seems to have...i feel that you are aware that we arent searching for a pity partner,,,a caregiver,,,a surrogate mother figure...you see us as complete...beings just as sexual,,,as capable.. as any able-bodied man,,,,and i think we react by treating you as special women,,,women that are a little bit better than the rest of the population,,,,that may be why you find that we tend to be partners that love the complete woman that you are,,,not just as a pair of breasts,,,an accessible(no pun intended) hand/lips/pussy but as a woman with whom we can just be ourselves,,,the good, bad, & ugly that our dis has given us...i am beginning to see the crip/devgrrl relationship as symbiotic...you fit well with our needs and we are able to satisfy what you are looking for in man...

[damedevo]

"you see us as complete...beings just as sexual,,,as capable.. as any able-bodied man"

MrJeff, what I see in your comments is a man who is MORE complete than your average Joe, therefore more enticing.

The extra element is your willingess to manage the daily, personal tax of physical disability responsibly--as a citizen, father, nephew--without habitual rancor or blame. That characteristic suggests that you have looked more deeply into yourself than most men ever have to--which, in turn, suggests a willingness and capacity to "love the complete woman," as you put it. That extra depth also suggests you would not fear a partner with strong emotions, whether she expresses grief or joy. Most people flee from deep emotions.

A friend of mine who lost vision in one eye, just a few years ago, briefly poured out her heart to me, when I told her a bit about my 35-year history of hip joint problems. She said her vision loss equated "a loss of innocence," and I knew instantly what she meant. She said she grieved about all that she can "never again take for granted," as a result of having pain and limited sight.

In her case and mine, the disabilties are currently invisible to the casual observer, which is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is obvious; the curse is that we struggle to keep up as able-bodied people, while laboring under a daily burden (intermittent pain and compromised function).

But before my hip joint problems ever began, I already felt that I had suffered a devastating loss of innocence that almost no one else could possibly understand. I'm referring to my awareness of being an unwanted child. My mother occasionally tried to assure me that she wasn't rejecting ME, in particular--rather, she didn't want a third child, at all. Her explanation served only to assure me that there was nothing I could do to earn legitimacy as a family member and human.

In childhood and youth, I turned this proposition on its head and assured everyone that I was my mother's favorite. The truth leaked out in odd compulsions, convictions, and emotional outbursts. In my late 20's, I had to face the truth and became suicidal. It has been a long haul.

I think the crip experience--which I've now tasted, repeatedly, myself--is often similar. The usual societal view is that crips are freaks, not legitimate humans with needs and feelings (even sexual!) and thoughts at least as intense and interesting as everyone else's. The disabled are society's unwanted children. Hitler waged a campaign to exterminate all disabled people, including children--a horror that gets far less press than his campaign against Jews.

And I've just read a fabulous interview in Bent, which suggests that profound rejection is also fundamental to every gay's experience. I think the interview is extremely insightful and well worth a read by everyone here--gay or not, disabled or not. Here's the piece and the URL:

"HOW TO FIND LOVE
WITH A FETISHIST

"BENT editor Bob Guter talks to psychotherapist Alan Sable about the difficult dynamic between men who desire disabled men and the objects of their desire."
www.bentvoices.org/culturecrash/sable.htm

Anyhow--I agree with your assessment that the crip/dev relationship has the potential to be deeply symbiotic. That should also make it deeply satisfying.

[carpenter]

As per usual, Harpo is right on target. Quirky, but eloquent, that is him through and through.

Altruistic and symbiotic are both good words to employ here. For it cuts both ways. One hand washes the other if you will. "Oh, that was a nice day, can you help me take my braces off?" "Wear shorts in a wheelchair? Are you kidding? I never do that. ... Oh ... ok. Yes .... shorts will work just fine today." Little things like that can get softly traded back and forth to enrich the moments.

I dont know if symbiotic is the right word. Symbiotic harkens a bit to close to predatory for me. Connotations like that asside, it does get very close to right once the issues of trust, compassion, and intimacy are dealt with properly.

[Lee]

I read that article a while ago. What disappoints me is the author's need to psychoanalyze devotees... which is not a surprise, since everyone wants to psychoanalyze everyone these days.

It pisses me off that anytime anyone likes anything that's not the Cosmo definition of beautiful, then they're fucked up and need to be analyzed. I've dealt with this as a devo, but also because I have another unusual preference that I've been exploring lately... one that I've caught equal amounts of flack about because it's not mainstream enough. I'm a WASP and if I crave anything except for the female equivalent of myself, then I'm labeled as a sick man in need of help. I'm tired of it.

The devotees who need help are the ones that stalk disabled people and rape/violate them. So do any men/women who stalk other non-disabled people. Just because I'm a devo, that doesn't make me any more likely to stalk someone. Unfortunately, it's the stalkers who call attention to themselves and get noticed.

When I "come out" to friends, many of them will confess to me their own little quirks. It's helped me to realize that we've all got our demons.

[damedevo]

Lee, I share your resentment about Bruno's gratuitous--and condescending, and condemnatory--psychoanalysis of devos, which is partly why I found the second reference (the Guter-Sable interview) so refreshing and interesting. Have you read that one?

At the same time, I have to admit that Bruno has come eerily close to sketching some basics of my own psychological make-up. I don't like it, so I'm looking at it. I don't feel free to enjoy my devo tendencies until I feel I've got a grip on what is making me (and my heart) tick.

I am struck by the Guter-Sable discussion of both gays and crips as fundamentally rejected--not only by the larger society, but often by their own families. Somewhere within the darkness of that rejection is the genesis of a positive counterculture that cultivates some wonderful things--black humor, compassion, tolerance, sexual adventure, and activism, for instance.

I greatly appreciate your running this board. I've never talked about this stuff anywhere, before.

[damedevo]

Lee, I stayed up too late and got up too early, so my brain's still going on this topic.

Crux of the matter: It's cowardly and creepy for people to pathologize the sexuality of disabled people and their admirers; but it can be equally cowardly and creepy to sexualize the pathology (the medical fact of the disability), apart from the whole person.

What bothers me: Shouldn't I be able to overlook the perfection of an able-bodied man and find him just as attractive as a disabled man? Am I not a smaller, more restricted person for being unable to make this leap?

[damedevo]

Yet another angle: Do we lust after people based on our estimate of how attainable they might be? Would I have lusted after gorgeous James Franciscus, if he had not played a blind detective on TV? He was certainly more interesting to me in that role than half-naked in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes"--although I did hope Longstreet would also disrobe...

members.aol.com/RayBailey2/FRANCISCUS.JPG

www.briansdriveintheater.com/beefcake/jamesfranciscus1.jpg (Drat, I can't post a direct link to that half-naked photo.)

Maybe I'd better stop thinking, now.

"We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security."
-Dwight David Eisenhower, U.S. general and 34th president (1890-1969)

[mrjefffurz]

quirky?.. ;D thats an interesting way to describe me carpenter,,,,but you have always had a grasp on my "out in leftfield" way of viewing the world...some would say im crazy as a peach orchard boar....batty in the belfrey....just plain nuts....but i think i like quirky better,,,

[devogirl]

That stupid Bruno article has been floating around for years. I seem to remember that he was totally discredited, but I don't recall the details, and I don't feel like plunging myself into the anti-devo debate to find out. Does anyone else know any details about him? Personally, I'm not at all like those women he described, and his overt bias against devos is really offensive. If you are finding some similarities with yourself and his case studies, I commend you for looking into it more closely, but remember Dr Bruno does not have the final word on devotees.
Anyway, thank you so much for posting that Bent article. I had never seen it before, but I think it's great. It really articulated for me a lot of things I had been thinking about, and I really like his description of getting past the impasse between devos and the disabled guys who are suspicious of our motives or who just hate us outright. Even though he's talking about gay men, I think a lot of it applies to us women devs too.

[BA]

I know him only on an aquaintence level, as I had worked with him in a rehab setting many moons ago. He happens to be a nice man, though I strongly disagree with his opinions in many areas.

[Lee]

jasononwheels said:

The only thing I know about him is that he is PPS (post-polio syndrome, I believe) and an expert on that subject, assuming it's the same Richard Bruno. He writes a column on PPS for New Mobility.

His motivation for writing the article makes a little more sense if he is disabled himself. I don't expect to see that kind of response from most men though. I think men are generally a little more accepting of the fact that these kinks exist, because I think most men have jerked off to something pretty weird at least once. But if he's had a bad experience with a dev or has some self-loathing thing going on, maybe that's his motivation.

[damedevo]

"Looking at it as altruism makes it seem like you are doing a favor, like people do by sending $$ to the poor overseas."

Matisse, maybe I've picked the wrong word. I'm trying to express the wish to keep the $$ at home, so to speak--to do right by my chosen man, because it thrills me to make him happy (and to tickle his thingie).

Bruno seems to dismiss such a wish as merely a sicko "projection."

[matisse]

Bruno's making too many conclusions with too little info. From the board here, it appears that Dev tendencies are just as likely to pop up without any apparent reason.

[wheelie37]

the only people who knows the facts about devotees and their different feelings are the the devotees themselves. the best place too find out about them is this site