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Post by alluringpariah on Mar 14, 2013 22:22:45 GMT -5
First I want to say, possibly the best thread started on the board that i've seen.
I don't really consider negative/positive personally, only honesty/dishonesty. So as long as what you answer is from inside and what you truly feel, nothing you say will upset me. I also hope people don't post an answer because it differs from the first few and they're reluctant to go against the grain
I've read on here that being a Dev has often been compared to being gay. With this in mind, do you think there will come a time when Devs, and to a lesser extent accepting disabled folk, will have to 'come out' so to speak to bring about change within society, of people's attitudes and perceptions? and would you take part in such a movement?
I hope I have offended anyone with this question, as it is'nt my intention. Apologies in advance if I have.
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Post by A££Y "Cuddles" Magoo on Mar 14, 2013 22:39:43 GMT -5
First I want to say, possibly the best thread started on the board that i've seen. I don't really consider negative/positive personally, only honesty/dishonesty. So as long as what you answer is from inside and what you truly feel, nothing you say will upset me. I also hope people don't post an answer because it differs from the first few and they're reluctant to go against the grain I've read on here that being a Dev has often been compared to being gay. With this in mind, do you think there will come a time when Devs, and to a lesser extent accepting disabled folk, will have to 'come out' so to speak to bring about change within society, of people's attitudes and perceptions? and would you take part in such a movement? I hope I have offended anyone with this question, as it is'nt my intention. Apologies in advance if I have. No apologies necessary, at least not in my eyes. I think many devs would prefer if that's how people viewed it. it would instill a more honest and pure outlook on what being a dev really is. and that's the way it should be imo. And yes, I believe that it is this way for alot of devs out there.
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Mar 14, 2013 22:41:32 GMT -5
First I want to say, possibly the best thread started on the board that i've seen. I don't really consider negative/positive personally, only honesty/dishonesty. So as long as what you answer is from inside and what you truly feel, nothing you say will upset me. I also hope people don't post an answer because it differs from the first few and they're reluctant to go against the grain I've read on here that being a Dev has often been compared to being gay. With this in mind, do you think there will come a time when Devs, and to a lesser extent accepting disabled folk, will have to 'come out' so to speak to bring about change within society, of people's attitudes and perceptions? and would you take part in such a movement? I hope I have offended anyone with this question, as it is'nt my intention. Apologies in advance if I have. I already think I am part of that movement. I am out to my immediate family, for the most part. A lot of my co-workers know... I've said the actual words to them... the others likely know without the words because of actions and things I've said. My close friends all know. I've actually discussed this a good bit with one of my friends who is a lesbian. And I think that this is kinda how that social change starts, slowly, with one person you know who is "out." Just quietly going about their business, living their lives, and being a dev or gay or whatever. And they're just kinda normal with it. Nobody I've shared it with has been even mildly titillated. It's been both a relief and mildly disappointing. lol And then, you have devs who really ARE fighting the Disability Rights fight. But I think it will also take devs like me... just quietly living a life with devness.
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vancityippy
Full Member
Posts: 209
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
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Post by vancityippy on Mar 15, 2013 0:15:01 GMT -5
First I want to say, possibly the best thread started on the board that i've seen. I don't really consider negative/positive personally, only honesty/dishonesty. So as long as what you answer is from inside and what you truly feel, nothing you say will upset me. I also hope people don't post an answer because it differs from the first few and they're reluctant to go against the grain I've read on here that being a Dev has often been compared to being gay. With this in mind, do you think there will come a time when Devs, and to a lesser extent accepting disabled folk, will have to 'come out' so to speak to bring about change within society, of people's attitudes and perceptions? and would you take part in such a movement? I hope I have offended anyone with this question, as it is'nt my intention. Apologies in advance if I have. Yes, A$$Y that's how I wish it were seen:) Most of my friends who are gay agree when we have conversations about it... The problem with a "movement" so to speak, is simply lack of numbers. We're spread across the globe so can't get together with rainbow flags for walk-roll marches;) Like Inigo, I make my contribution to "awareness raising" by being open and comfortable with it to all of my friends, family and classmates at school. Depending on the audience, I may not say "devotee" (God forbid they go home and google it only to find photos of disembodied stumps or the Wikipedia definition, which basically pathologizes it). But I tell everyone that I've always found guys in chairs intriguing, and that I get something emotionally out of the dynamic between myself and a disabled person...and that there's a community of others like myself. I also feel Dan Savage (Savage Love Column) has done a lovely job of posting positive perspectives on devoteeism over the years. My gay friends have been the most supportive, curious and understanding of the true essence of my sexuality. Like Inigo said, most others shrug it off...or even more often, laugh and make a wise crack "all in good fun" (this irritates me). So I guess what I'm saying is that in addition to small numbers, there's also a lack of interest from the general public...they find it somewhat "non-sexy" or even laughable to find aspects of disability attractive... As a result, no dis-dev parades anywhere in the near future I don't think
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Post by alluringpariah on Mar 15, 2013 3:13:47 GMT -5
Mate, I really wanted people to post answers, so I proceeded with caution Wow, I'm somewhat suprised at the answers so far. I was under the impression most devs kept their 'devness' secret and mostly dated/married AB guys, well that's been the norm for most devs I've communicated with. There you go, because of this thread i've learnt something different. Neat. Actually being 'out' with people in your life, is more in line with what I meant, as opposed to parades etc. I was more concerned with how can the whole dev thing be as universally known as being gay/lesbian is. Like you both mentioned, most people probably don't really care. But those within the disabled community who are threatened by devs, or the perception by society that disabled persons are 'not sexy, or attractive'. I think changing peoples attitudes or way of thinking, could change the way people view disability and help to remove the stigma attached to being a dev.
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Post by dentelle on Mar 15, 2013 6:16:59 GMT -5
Hey, it's been a while, but I'm back, for now... In response to Mike's question.... I prefer comfort over all. Has nothing to do with being more visible or not... I can't stand being uncomfortable so if my guy is not comfortable looking more invisible, then forget it.. It's like buying a pair of shoes that are a size or two smaller because they look better or were the last pair.. 'It's not how you feel.... it's how you look' doesn't work for me And I would not get rid of my devness... it's a part of me.
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Post by Inigo Montoya on Mar 15, 2013 7:33:40 GMT -5
Mate, I really wanted people to post answers, so I proceeded with caution Wow, I'm somewhat suprised at the answers so far. I was under the impression most devs kept their 'devness' secret and mostly dated/married AB guys, well that's been the norm for most devs I've communicated with. There you go, because of this thread i've learnt something different. Neat. Actually being 'out' with people in your life, is more in line with what I meant, as opposed to parades etc. I was more concerned with how can the whole dev thing be as universally known as being gay/lesbian is. Like you both mentioned, most people probably don't really care. But those within the disabled community who are threatened by devs, or the perception by society that disabled persons are 'not sexy, or attractive'. I think changing peoples attitudes or way of thinking, could change the way people view disability and help to remove the stigma attached to being a dev. I want to discuss this a little further. I hope it's ok. If not, we can copy and move it to a different thread. I DO date AB men. Mostly because that's who's available and who contact me on the dating sites. I don't have my preference listed on plentyoffish or okcupid because it has my picture (if you don't have a pic, men don't contact you AT ALL) and my location is given. I work with kids in a very conservative part of my country and people can be weird about gay/fetish/stuff and working with kids. Ignorance. I also don't want AB guys to choose not to contact me because of my having that listed in my profile. My targeted searches on the dating sites have turned up maybe one dis guy in a 2-3 hour drive. I would love... and I dream about... bringing a disabled man into my life that would be a part of my work, in that it involves a lot of volunteers and I develop pretty close relationships with some of these kids. I already know some disabled guys whom I'd love to introduce to some of the people I know. At this point, I am working towards reconciling myself to a fullfilled life of alone-dom. Because men are men, whether dis or AB, and my skillage is kinda shit. So, my advocacy probably will stop where it is, personal relationship wise. I have been, for the most part, a miserable failure at dating disabled men. I originally told some of my peeps because I was infatuated with wc user guy #2 and was actually flying to meet him. I had visions of bringing either him and/or other guys home and didn't want to worry about people "figuring it out" so I just told. And it grew/expanded from there. Since then, I have flown to meet 3 guys from here... but my efforts on dating sites, contacting dis men and having one contact me... has been kinda shit because of the distance and my personal challenges with outing myself to disabled men. The last guy I communicated with was a 9 hour drive from me, a total playa, and will probably never know, at this point, that I'm a dev. Guys don't generally seem interested in long distance dating and that's really the only choice I have. So, I wish I were braver about that. Outing myself to actual people with disabilities. I have considered (and it's been suggested to me) doing a post on one of the dis boards... "An Ask a dev" post using an email address for that specific purpose and setting rules like, "Disrespectful emails won't be answered." And when I'm feeling strong and self confident I think about it... but I don't want to get my IP addy banned. Because I think THAT would be super beneficial. To be able to answer questions and educate some of the people whom we desire. The ones who are borderline or are willing to be just a little open minded. Because then they can have private conversations with other disabled peeps they know that are, hopefully, dev positive. Because I have very rarely ever seen one defend us in those dev bashing threads. Now I have a question for you... off to the AAW thread...
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Post by ~Z28gal~ on Mar 15, 2013 12:35:28 GMT -5
Wow, I'm somewhat suprised at the answers so far. I was under the impression most devs kept their 'devness' secret and mostly dated/married AB guys I think those things tend to be highly related. For devs who have no interest/ability/desire to meet and date wheelers IRL, there is no NEED to tell anyone (besides maybe close friends). For those of us who are actively pursuing relationships with wheelers, it kind of becomes a necessity. Once you bring home the second wheeler, people get curious. Of course, there are always exceptions to this, but that's what I've noticed. I am "out" to some (very close) friends and my immediate family. If I had ended up marrying the first wheeler I ever dated, I really don't know if I would have told my family.
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Post by Enid on Mar 15, 2013 12:43:26 GMT -5
I was more concerned with how can the whole dev thing be as universally known as being gay/lesbian is. Like you both mentioned, most people probably don't really care. But those within the disabled community who are threatened by devs, or the perception by society that disabled persons are 'not sexy, or attractive'. I think changing peoples attitudes or way of thinking, could change the way people view disability and help to remove the stigma attached to being a dev. The thing is, as a bisexual woman I'd say devness is not on the same level. You can be pretty open about dating somebody with a disability without having to explain why. I'll openly comment on who I find hot (which is how most people end up finding out I like girls), but particulars on what turns me on are private and reserved for a handful of very close friends. I don't want to "come out" on that (although most of my friends know). I do my bit. I'm open about having dated guys with disabilities, and will challenge people's perceptions about disability if I have the chance, but won't go around talking about fetishes (which is what I consider devness to be). On the other hand, I think the disabled community is the one who needs to do work. They keep shutting us out from their spaces, and generally mistreating us. Then go fuck off. I'm not going to fight with them for a space there. I think we could be great allies, but they don't want us, so whatever... I'll let their pity parties go on. And yeah, I realize that last paragraph is potentially offensive. In case it isn't obvious, I'm not talking about the guys there (although as allowed members of those communities, maybe you could pull your weight...).
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Post by whoaitsz on Mar 15, 2013 13:24:10 GMT -5
I was directed here by a dev lurker. She is someone I somewhat fell for but I was never quite her type. Then some things in her life added up and I was like 'so, she's attracted to disabilities'. About six weeks ago we had a 'talk' and she said she was a devotee. I told her I knew (and I thought I did) until she directed me here. I can admit it hurts and makes me almost jealous due to me having a disease that actually makes me more dependent on others than your average paralyzed or amputees. Now I see her differently... in a good way. I'll never have her heart (or smokin' hawt body), but I've a terrific friend who has put up with a lot of drama from me. Her 'coming out' neither surprised me, repulsed me, or gave me any negative feelings. I don't understand why anyone would give a f*ck. I am attracted to almost every female I've ever met, but thicker women with a big chest and red hair makes me...... woooooo. yeah. it's just a preference. I have a good friend who is black, but always dates 'snow only'. Okay, who cares? Never ever, ever be ashamed of what turns you on. It's your control that matters! Seriously, anybody who is more than confused can go to hell. They are not YOUR friend. They are the friend they thought you were.
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Post by Emma on Mar 15, 2013 14:27:30 GMT -5
I've read on here that being a Dev has often been compared to being gay. With this in mind, do you think there will come a time when Devs, and to a lesser extent accepting disabled folk, will have to 'come out' so to speak to bring about change within society, of people's attitudes and perceptions? and would you take part in such a movement? I compare being a dev to being gay because I think of it as something that encompass everything about my sexual attraction, I am truly only attracted to guys who are amputees. I also recognize however there there are some distinct differences between being a dev and being gay. The one I think about most often is that I can show up at a social event with a wheelchair user as a date and no one will think, 'she must be a dev' however if I showed up with a woman people would assume I was gay. If I showed up repeatedly to social events with different wheelchair users as my date people would then assume it was my thing, however that has not been the case with me. I have dated two wheelchair users and not very many people met or even knew about the first guy since we only dated for a month or two. If I had ended up marrying the first wheeler I ever dated, I really don't know if I would have told my family. Yup that's me. I have told my close friends but not my family. Like Enid said, there is no reason for me to share with my immediate family what turns me on, that is reserved for my conversations with my female friends. If they were to ever ask I would explain things to me but so far noone has been all that interested.
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staron
Full Member
Posts: 158
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled Male
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Post by staron on Mar 15, 2013 14:35:45 GMT -5
About six weeks ago we had a 'talk' and she said she was a devotee. I told her I knew (and I thought I did) until she directed me here. I can admit it hurts and makes me almost jealous due to me having a disease that actually makes me more dependent on others than your average paralyzed or amputees. Just like with everything else, different devs like different things. While the devs that likes the lesser disabilities may in the majority, though I'm not sure about it. There are devs that like guys with more severe disabilities. Just contribute in the board and maybe you'll get a nice PM one day.
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vancityippy
Full Member
Posts: 209
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
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Post by vancityippy on Mar 15, 2013 20:39:43 GMT -5
Once you bring home the second wheeler, people get curious. Of course, there are always exceptions to this, but that's what I've noticed. I am "out" to some (very close) friends and my immediate family. If I had ended up marrying the first wheeler I ever dated, I really don't know if I would have told my family. Definitely. The first wheeler I dated didn't know. Only a few close friends...To the rest of the world, I was just dating a disabled guy. Persuing my second relationship (and long disatance at that) was when It all came out. I absolutely refuse to "hide" anyone I'm dating, so the awkwardness of letting the cat out of the bag was no longer relevant. I just kinda had to be open. I think the reason for many of us to not wanting to flaunt it, isn't because we're not proud (I'm actually totally proud to have this attraction!), but because...(well, I'll speak for myself) I'm afraid people will think that the disability is the reason I'm with someone. I want my relationships to be seen as just as holistic as other relationships and would never want anyone to degrade my relationship by thinking like that.
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vancityippy
Full Member
Posts: 209
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
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Post by vancityippy on Mar 15, 2013 20:46:02 GMT -5
I can admit it hurts and makes me almost jealous due to me having a disease that actually makes me more dependent on others than your average paralyzed or amputees. Keep your head up! I have a boy friend, but so you know, I have always preferred being with a guy who requires lot's of help. Being caring is my strongest quality, so to be with a guy who benefits from that, really makes me confident, comfortable and satisfied. There are tons of perks to helping! for example, if I help a guy eat while I eat, I eat slower, enjoy my meal more and hopefully, drop a pound or two!!!!! Anyway, there are other girls who feel this way too:) (sorry, off topic!)
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Post by lavly on Mar 15, 2013 23:26:24 GMT -5
On the other hand, I think the disabled community is the one who needs to do work. They keep shutting us out from their spaces, and generally mistreating us. Then go f*ck off. I'm not going to fight with them for a space there. I think we could be great allies, but they don't want us, so whatever... I'll let their pity parties go on. And yeah, I realize that last paragraph is potentially offensive. In case it isn't obvious, I'm not talking about the guys there (although as allowed members of those communities, maybe you could pull your weight...). +1 I think one of the main reasons I stayed and still chose to stay ( some what) in the closest is cos of the reaction I have received by the dis community. It's always funny to me that a community that talks about not judging ppl cos of there differences can be so judgemental in its view about devs.
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