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Post by jturk on Mar 30, 2014 15:50:11 GMT -5
Firstly, I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, it has been an utterly fascinating read. I don't really have much to add to the main topic but there is one brief thing I want to share. I only speak for myself and maybe it's different with an acquired disability rather than one emerging from a congenital condition. But from my own perspective, other than maybe for a couple years when I was just losing the ability to walk at age 12-14, I've actually never had any real emotional pain or felt like I was really struggling with anything in the first place, it has always been more of just a state of being than any particular challenge I felt I was facing. I say this not to dismiss or in any way lessen anyone's feelings, but just to point out that many times things in our lives about which we are anxious or fearful can come about due to a misunderstanding of what someone else's perspective might actually be. One of the interesting things to me about the human condition is the fact that at least while we are restricted to physical bodies, there is no way for us to fully experience a different perspective than our own. So we rely on our imperfect methods of communication with one another to continuously try and expand our understanding of the world around us. Sometimes this doesn't work, with either frustrating or at times humorous results, and other times we find that we can connect with another or many others far more easily than we ever expected, which opens up totally new ways of understanding human life. I'm glad to see this level of discussion coming out of what could have turned very contentious IMO
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GGSE
New Member
Posts: 25
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by GGSE on Mar 30, 2014 18:59:32 GMT -5
Deriving pleasure from someone else's misfortunes made me incredibly guilty in the beginning, I somehow out grew that, and it had a lot to do with lurking on here all these years, it made it "okay" knowing there were other people out there who felt the same.
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Post by devogirl on Mar 30, 2014 21:03:19 GMT -5
Another dimension of the guilt/shame factor is that most of us started showing interest in disabilities from early childhood, around 4 years old. In my case, my mother noticed and freaked out. She made it very clear that my interest was WRONG. I know I'm not the only one to get that reaction from a parent. That kind of negative reaction at an early age gets deeply programmed. It took me until well into adulthood to get over it.
Also, I've said this many times before, but women are still discouraged from having any sexual agency, especially not non-standard kinks. Sure, a lot of guys THINK they like it when a woman wants sex or kinky sex, which is why you see it in porn, but IRL is a different story. When I was dating and open about being into BDSM, most guys I met clearly were uncomfortable, even the ones who wanted to try SM themselves. There are guys who are more enlightened, but they are few.
Which brings me to the negative reactions. So many times dis guys said to me "devs are great!" but they didn't mean it. Deep down, they hated the idea, but they wanted to get laid, so they lied to me and probably also to themselves. After two years dating a quad, he turned around and told me I was sick, messed up in the head, etc. That hurt a lot.
Still, I think it's super important to disclose. If it's so much a part of you that you're reading and posting on this board, how can you keep it from your partner? What happens when he checks your browser history and sees it? No disrespect to TC, it sounds like she is in a good place. But for devs just starting a relationship, my advice is always to tell, the sooner the better. I always told AB partners as well. When I started dating the guy I would later marry, I could easily have not told him, but I didn't want to have the kind of relationship where I was hiding something, sneaking around online, and not being open about why I liked certain books or movies. It's not a matter of spelling out exactly what you're attracted to, but just acknowledging that the attraction exists, that it's a part of your identity. I spent my childhood and teen years hiding it, and it was horrible. I didn't want to live like that as an adult.
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Post by Maurine on Mar 31, 2014 2:29:13 GMT -5
ill never forget that condasending look and voice my boss had when she said do you want to talk about why you pick these types of men ... do you know your own worth ... and i cant punch her in the face she is my boss. I'd rather be unemployed than work for a person like that.
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Post by lavly on Mar 31, 2014 2:44:29 GMT -5
maurine dyslexis with fucked up back cant be choosers
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Post by darthoso on Apr 2, 2014 2:00:43 GMT -5
Great thread. Regarding guilt: socially I think the world is generally moving towards a position of accepting all forms of sexuality as long as it isn't harmful and everyone involved is a consenting adult. Its a weird convergence between libertarians and progressives, same thing is happening with drugs.
For me a dev getting off on my pain/discomfort/struggle is fine. My only request would be if I'm in pain/whatever, don't let me struggle, help me out first if I ask. For me its a power thing, I need 100% certainty that health and safety come before pleasure. I'm not saying a dev would CAUSE pain (instant deal breaker if they did), but I'm not cool with someone just standing by and watching either. Its the same logic behind why in the BDSM community "safe words" are critical and never to be ignored.
Regarding disclosure: Don't use the term devotee right away. Most people have never heard of it so they'll Google it. At which point you've just turned how you define yourself over to a search algorithm. Instead just say you're attracted to disabled guys. Most people won't Google that and it empowers you to define who YOU are. Same reason if I met someone I wouldn't disclose I have SMA right away, instead I'd say "a form of MD". I wouldn't want the bullshit stat that I should have been dead at 2 to be the first thing they learn about me.
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Post by rebel6842 on Apr 2, 2014 14:49:17 GMT -5
Great thread. Regarding guilt: socially I think the world is generally moving towards a position of accepting all forms of sexuality as long as it isn't harmful and everyone involved is a consenting adult. Its a weird convergence between libertarians and progressives, same thing is happening with drugs. For me a dev getting off on my pain/discomfort/struggle is fine. My only request would be if I'm in pain/whatever, don't let me struggle, help me out first if I ask. For me its a power thing, I need 100% certainty that health and safety come before pleasure. I'm not saying a dev would CAUSE pain (instant deal breaker if they did), but I'm not cool with someone just standing by and watching either. Its the same logic behind why in the BDSM community "safe words" are critical and never to be ignored. Regarding disclosure: That's a great point here, and at least partially why I believe that devs have the trouble that they do. If the rehab stories of "Watch out for the devs" are to be believed, a lot of guys already have the negative connotation in their heads, whereas if you just say that you're attracted to disabled guys-things are more likely to roll better. Now, if HE brings up "devotee"-all bets SHOULD be off
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Post by jrm on Apr 2, 2014 15:22:40 GMT -5
For me, there's a huge psychological difference between being attracted to someone IN SPITE OF their disability vs. BECAUSE OF the disability. I think the guilt feelings are why I'm still struggling with my identity as a dev. I DO feel guilt at being attracted to someone because of their challenges. I still try to convince myself that the couple of relationships I've had with disabled guys were in spite of their disabilities, but when I'm truly honest, it was more than that.
While the BDSM analogy was apt in a lot of ways, in those situations, both partners are into that sort of situation. With someone with a disability, in most cases, he didn't ask to have the challenges. I don't know if I'm making myself clear. It's a subtle difference, but to me psychologically, it makes a huge difference.
As for disclosure, I'm still struggling with admitting to myself that I am a dev. So, admitting it to a partner probably wouldn't happen at this point in my journey as a dev.
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theodora
New Member
Posts: 18
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: In a relationship
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Post by theodora on Nov 12, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -5
Namaste and hi to this great community! I’m new here, a 30 years old devotee (wheelers!) and have been closeted for my whole life without any exception.
I’ve never felt guilty (weird, yes, but not guilty) on the inside but I’ve always felt a lot of shame. I realized my strong affection for disabled when I was a little child (about 4 or 5 years old) and I clearly remember that I have always felt ashamed. Today it makes me wonder “why”? My parents never told me that disability is something bad, sad or horrible and they never told me that I shouldn’t stare at disabled people.
Like I’ve just said, I’ve been closeted my whole life. When I was 19, I decided to follow my attraction to wheelers and found an online dating platform for disabled. I remember reading the guidelines and they stated that devotees (in german they are called Amelos but I have no clue what that should mean) are banned from this site. It was the very first time that I heard that word.
The dating platform stated that devotees are banned as they are basically sick and that they want to protect their disabled clients from these perverts. At that point in my life I was already confused and self-conscious enough and that statement made me feel even worse. Anyway, not following their ban, I met an incomplete quad at that site. We felt a strong emotional, intellectual and physical connection from the beginning and I fell in love with him. Thinking I was sick and feeling ashamed, I didn’t tell him I was a devotee nor did I tell anyone I was with a wheeler. This made me feel guilty. It all ended up in secrets towards him and towards my friends which destroyed the relationship/friendship even before it had really begun. Okay, I’ll come to my point now, you poor readers of my bad English! I wonder what this relationship could have been; what my life could have been and what it could have been for this wonderful man if I had – or somebody had given me - the courage to feel comfortable with my feelings!... And if people who know nothing about dev feelings wouldn’t be so ignorant? It could have been such a wonderful thing! I would have had so much to give. Love, desire and comfort… and he too missed the chance to give that to me in reverse. What a waste. It still makes me sad after 10 years.
Dating sites and others that demonize all devs really don’t know what they are doing. Not only to the devs but also to the disabled. I’m not saying that all devotees are saints but this forum shows pretty much how special and normal alike many devotees are.
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Post by Maurine on Nov 12, 2015 16:45:49 GMT -5
Namaste and hi to this great community! I’m new here, a 30 years old devotee (wheelers!) and have been closeted for my whole life without any exception.
I’ve never felt guilty on the inside but I’ve always felt a lot of shame. I realized my strong affection for disabled when I was a little child (about 4 or 5 years old) and I clearly remember that I have always felt ashamed. Today it makes me wonder “why”? My parents never told me that disability is something bad, sad or horrible and they never told me that I shouldn’t stare at disabled people.
Like I’ve just said, I’ve been closeted my whole life. When I was 19, I decided to follow my attraction to wheelers and found an online dating platform for disabled. I remember reading the guidelines and they stated that devotees (in german they are called Amelos but I have no clue what that should mean) are banned from this site. It was the very first time that I heard that word.
The dating platform stated that devotees are banned as they are basically sick and that they want to protect their disabled clients from these perverts. At that point in my life I was already confused and self-conscious enough and that statement made me feel even worse. Anyway, not following their ban, I met an incomplete quad at that site. We felt a strong emotional, intellectual and physical connection from the beginning and I fell in love with him. Thinking I was sick and feeling ashamed, I didn’t tell him I was a devotee nor did I tell anyone I was with a wheeler. This made me feel guilty. It all ended up in secrets towards him and towards my friends which destroyed the relationship/friendship even before it had really begun. Okay, I’ll come to my point now, you poor readers of my bad English! I wonder what this relationship could have been; what my life could have been and what it could have been for this wonderful man if I had – or somebody had given me - the courage to feel comfortable with my feelings!... And if people who know nothing about dev feelings wouldn’t be so ignorant? It could have been such a wonderful thing! I would have had so much to give. Love, desire and comfort… and he too missed the chance to give that to me in reverse. What a waste. It still makes me sad after 10 years.
Dating sites and others that demonize all devs really don’t know what they are doing. Not only to the devs but also to the disabled. I’m not saying that all devotees are saints but this forum shows pretty much how special and normal alike many devotees are.
This makes me so angry with the dev haters! May I ask what dating site that was? They don't fully get rid of the really creepy devs that exist out there like this. All they do with their policy is shy away many insecure devs and intensify their feelings of shame and guilt for their attraction, preventing many wonderful relationships. I can also see this causing prejudices against devs in people who haven't had an opinion on that subject before. I met my bf at such a dating site. I'm not sure if they officially accepted devs there. Some members, including me, mentioned their devness or at least hinted at it in their profiles. On the other hand, I know of devs whose profiles were deleted without an explanation. I think it's incredibly condescending of them to "protect" their disabled clients from devs. There are creepy devs out there and there are creepy people on any dating site. People should decide for themselves if they want to date a dev or not. I haven't yet met anyone with a disability who was openly against devs. Many seem to be very accepting of devs. And then there are those who haven't heard of devs. I'm wondering why the dev haters are so vocal. I don't think they make up the majority.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 18:39:10 GMT -5
Me personally, I don't want any female to feel guilty for having feelings for me. But I might be a bit biased on that one.
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theodora
New Member
Posts: 18
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: In a relationship
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Post by theodora on Nov 12, 2015 18:56:19 GMT -5
Thank you for your thoughts!
Yes, Maur1ne, they make me kinda angry too – and sad. Like all people make me angry who judge without having any idea what the feelings of others are about. I know that there are devs who take pictures of disabled secretly and hand them over on the internet. That’s certainly not okay but I would rather call them stalkers than devotees. I can only speak for myself but I treated the disabled men I found attractive in a very respectful way as they were very special to me. On the other hand side, I have to admit that I consider the shame and the whole not-telling-him-or-anybody-else thing that I was writing about, as some sort of disrespect.
But as I said, I’ve never felt guilty about the affection itself. I don’t get off by the pain but by the things the pain has done to the man. Me, knowing that he has found his way although he had gone through pain and loss makes not only his body- but very much his personality interesting for me. It makes him strong and vulnerable at the same time and I admire this contradiction in a human being. And if there is still pain, I don’t enjoy the pain but the opportunity to help him get over it. – Just like I love to get help from him. To answer your question Maur1ne, the site was handicaplove. It still exists but I don’t want to look into their policies if they have changed anything about the dev ban.
Tc123, no, I feel like for me, the door has closed forever or at least for the next decades. After the emotional disaster I experienced with this wheeler 10 years ago, my devness was almost gone I decided to date AB guys. I found my AB boyfriend 7 years ago and it seemed to be fine. My devness seemed to have gone. I was still enjoying the sight of a handsome wheeler in the streets but my fantasies were gone. Everything was great for many years until the sleeping beast woke up again from one day to the other and without any known trigger! And then I found pd, read all you witty, funny and profound post and learned so much about myself. I’m in a high dev phase including the whole fantasizing thing and really struggle hard to stay in my AB relationship.
Disclosure isn’t really a topic for me right now as I’m a total mess and have to somehow get back on track before I can even think about that.
Thank you tc123, it’s really glad I’ve found you too!
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xcaptainx
New Member
I love summer weather!
Posts: 25
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: In a relationship
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Post by xcaptainx on Nov 12, 2015 19:33:17 GMT -5
Dating sites and others that demonize all devs really don’t know what they are doing. Not only to the devs but also to the disabled. I’m not saying that all devotees are saints but this forum shows pretty much how special and normal alike many devotees are.
This makes me so angry with the dev haters! May I ask what dating site that was? They don't fully get rid of the really creepy devs that exist out there like this. All they do with their policy is shy away many insecure devs and intensify their feelings of shame and guilt for their attraction, preventing many wonderful relationships. I can also see this causing prejudices against devs in people who haven't had an opinion on that subject before. I met my bf at such a dating site. I'm not sure if they officially accepted devs there. Some members, including me, mentioned their devness or at least hinted at it in their profiles. On the other hand, I know of devs whose profiles were deleted without an explanation. I think it's incredibly condescending of them to "protect" their disabled clients from devs. There are creepy devs out there and there are creepy people on any dating site. People should decide for themselves if they want to date a dev or not. I haven't yet met anyone with a disability who was openly against devs. Many seem to be very accepting of devs. And then there are those who haven't heard of devs. I'm wondering why the dev haters are so vocal. I don't think they make up the majority. I myself haven't spent any time in disable chat rooms or on dating sites for PWD so I, fortunately, haven't encountered the dev haters and their personal reasons for their hatred. I can say from personal experience that people who feel the need to insult and ridicule others desires, beliefs, needs, and kinks often do so out of ignorance, prejudice, personal insecurities and just the fact that they can't see past their own point of view. I can understand why a dev would want to hide their devness. Most things not considered "normal" are often looked at negatively. That being said, things are definitely changing. Especially in the LGBT and BDSM communities. When people are exposed to new things for a long time, it eventually becomes the norm. Sure, there's always going to be haters but I think that the more people who encounter and learn about devotees, the more it will become a normal part of the world we live in. I'm sorry for those who have had very negative experiences as devs. I hope you find people who will except you for who you are without judgment.
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itsmurdocksfault
New Member
Posts: 30
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Married/Domestic partnership
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Post by itsmurdocksfault on Jul 3, 2016 8:10:29 GMT -5
Hi, I know this post is old but it was so enlightening that I just had to comment. Yesterday I was watching a video where a blind girl was talking about her experiences on tinder. She said that she did not disclose her disability because she didn't want guys to reject her because of it, but more importantly, she didn't want guys to accept her because of her disability. I thought, oh oh, here comes. She said that, believe or not, some people have disability fetishes, and that she didn't want anyone to feel pleasure because of her disability. She wasn't really offensive but I still felt bad for a while. Then I came here and find this thread and I feel better already. It was great to read about devs experiences and that the men here are supportive. Guilt? I don't feel it very often because I know that I'm not harming anyone. However, the shame is ever present, that's why I'm very much in the closet.
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Post by malibu on Jul 3, 2016 9:35:01 GMT -5
Hi, I know this post is old but it was so enlightening that I just had to comment. Yesterday I was watching a video where a blind girl was talking about her experiences on tinder. She said that she did not disclose her disability because she didn't want guys to reject her because of it, but more importantly, she didn't want guys to accept her because of her disability. I thought, oh oh, here comes. She said that, believe or not, some people have disability fetishes, and that she didn't want anyone to feel pleasure because of her disability. She wasn't really offensive but I still felt bad for a while. Then I came here and find this thread and I feel better already. It was great to read about devs experiences and that the men here are supportive. Guilt? I don't feel it very often because I know that I'm not harming anyone. However, the shame is ever present, that's why I'm very much in the closet. You don't need to feel guilty, I'm glad you feel better. Just because one person doesn't like to be liked for her disability it doesn't mean it's wrong. There are many out there who don't care or even find it good to be liked for the disability, what makes a lot more sense actually. I know it from myself. I dont like being liked for my vulnerability. But it doesn't mean the guys who are into me because of that are wrong it's actually the opposite. They probably want to protect me, it's cool. I just can't stand being protected, it's something I need to work on myself. I am wrong here. I can understand in this very case that it must be a lot harder to go to a tinder encounter. It's already a bit scary if you can see the guy. So maybe thats why she reacted like that. Anyways it's different for women I guess. I'm sure there are many very nice male devs into women, but what if not. So no need to feel guilty, it's a complete different story and background.
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