Why do devotees get such a bad wrap?

[pinkcrusader]

I wonder why people think badly of devs? All the devs that I know are really great people. I want to know what you all think are the reasons for the bad blood.

I'll start...

I think that a big reason is that the whole devotee issue is still relatively unknown. And the only devs that really draw attention to them selves are creepy people. All you nice normal devs don't talk about it openly. I know why you don't. It's hard and scary to talk about such personal things with people who might not understand or approve. And people can be judgemental and down right mean sometimes.

Another reason I think is that devotees get lumped together with other issues. From what I've seen most people who speak out against devs have had a run in with a voyeur who happened to have a disability fetish. They weren't even really a devotee. But peoples ignorance leads them to believe that a dev was the source of their problem. When really it's not devotees but voyeurs that they disprove of.

Let me know what you think.

Tim

[Cake]

Hm... Complicated, very complicated.
I guess what scares most of us devs off from coming out is the fact that "devness" is a thing you can't really explain to anybody who isn't a dev their selves. When a dev tells someone, who isn't neither dev nor disabled, "I'm really into paraplegics" they mostly don't know what to make of such a statement.
We all have made this experience, I believe. The inevitable question "How, exactly, do you mean that?" is followed by the answer "Well... like... I'm sexually attracted to wheelchair users". This usually doesn't help a bit to lower the other person's confusion. The only way for the dev now is to explain further. And she eventually has to face the question "So you actually do get, like, turned on by the disability??" And this is the point where terms like sadism pop up in the head of the other person. To explain how it is possible to be attracted to a thing that actually makes life harder and/or even painful - how it is possible to feel attracted to a person's disability without being sadistic, can be very, very difficult.
And we all know that this is only one half of the whole thing. In reality the thing we call "devness" is much more complex, involves many emotions, opinions, and, and and...
The point I'm trying to get to is: Sadly, most people are not open-minded enough to understand what "devness" really means. To get a fair idea of it they would have to listen to a dev for quite a little while. And if we choose to tell them only the "surface" of the whole thing, which says "I find wheelchair users attractive", they will only be confused and try to figure it out by themselves. And how would they do that? Hell, most of us devs were struggling with ourselves for years and years, because we couldn't understand - let alone accept - what was going on with us. Can it be surprising then, that most other people can't make heads nor tails of it and thus get a negative idea of the whole thing?
Just a few thoughts, but I don't know...

[Ouch]

The reason why Devs get a bad 'rap', is quite simple. People fear what is different and unfamiliar to them. It's the remnants of instinct crawling out to shroud people from understanding.

[devogirl]

Hi there, welcome to the board! Sorry I dissed your vlog Nothing personal, I'm just not a fan of the format, but I agree with the things you said, and I'm so grateful that you have taken up our cause. So many of us grow up feeling guilty and ashamed, so it really helps a lot to get reassurance from wheeler guys.

As for why devs get a bad rap, I'm so touched by your comments that I hesitate to even reveal the seamier side of the online devo world because I don't want to spoil that lovely thought. Yes, there are plenty of devs, such as many of our members here, who are kind, considerate people, and should not feel bad about being devotees.

However, devotees can be their own worst enemy, and a few, but a noticeable few, deserve the bad rep. You don't really see it on this board, because women in general are usually more circumspect in approaching guys they like. But there are some male devos who behave very badly. Check out some of their websites. Sorry I can't bring myself to go dig up links. The yahoo group paraquad used to be a sink of nasty postings, although when I went back to it just now for some reason I couldn't access the messages. Things may have changed (and I hope they have) but beginning in the pre-internet days (when it was called "the hobby") and devo dudes communicated through magazines and mailing lists, and into the late 1990s on paraquad and other e-groups, it was fairly common for guys to stalk disabled women they encountered in public, following them around, compiling lists of addresses and phone numbers, and taking pictures of them without their knowledge and posting them on the internet. As if that wasn't creepy enough, when I posted a message saying that was not ok, they actually defended themselves, saying that being devotees made this kind of behavior acceptable, and that I just didn't understand their obsessive desires. Bullshit. These guys also haunt conventions and support groups for amputees, hiding behind potted plants and observing the women but they don't have the balls to approach one and maybe initiate any real interaction. Pathetic.

Also, when I posted to paraquad, many guys thought that I was a disabled woman, and would try to proposition me in the most demeaning, disgusting manner. These were guys utterly lacking in social skills, driven by obsessive desire, harassing women who might already feel conflicted about their sexuality. It's not a good combination. If I were a disabled woman, I'm not sure I would hang out on devo sites, just because the ratio of assholes to normal guys seems too high, and of course it's the assholes who send you the most email.

One other horror story: my ex-bf, a quad, used to email with devo chicks online, it's how we met. One woman offered him $500 if he would send her a video of him doing "anything difficult." She wanted to see him struggle. Ok, we admit that's part of the attraction, but the demand for a video plus the offer of money made the whole thing kinda sleazy, and really put him off. Then another person he thought was a devo girl turned out to be a gay devo guy, who had requested lots of photos, which he sent. Later, he discovered the guy had used his photos to create a website pretending to be him, and detailing his daily life, of course all made up, utter bullshit, the guy didn't know the first thing about SCI. He was furious, of course, and he couldn't get the server to take the site down. That was not the only site which had used his pics without his permission, although it was the worst. It's one thing to post a photo yourself, it's another thing to discover it accidentally on someone else's fetish site, sometimes with a leering comment. That's why when Lee put up the "real photos" site, I insisted that all photos had to be submitted by the subjects. He also included a bunch from other sites that were "public" and less personal, which I felt a little iffy about. But now that it's so easy to post your own photos, it's become less of an issue.

So yes, some of the disabled people who complain about devotees have had bad experiences, and with "real" devotees, not just voyeurs. (I don't think that's a valid distinction anyway.) It's sad and upsetting to me, but the best way to prevent this kind of anti-social, harmful behavior is to be more open about devness in general. If it's not a secret hidden thing, we can date more normally, and if there are photos and videos produced by disabled people themselves and willingly distributed, there's less of a need for stalking. So thanks, people like you really do make a difference.

Ok, so what about the disabled people who have no personal experience but automatically hate all devos? I think they haven't come to terms with their own disability. If you hate your body, think it's ugly and broken, then you can't accept someone loving that same body. The negative messages I get from those people are usually along the lines of "Fuck you, you'll never know what it's like." Well no, and I don't pretend to. I try to leave those people to deal with their issues on their own.

Finally, as for the general AB population, I find they usually don't have strong feelings either way. Some people don't care, some think it's weird, or unexpected, but I haven't seen them get worked up. The real hate, I'm sorry to say, comes from disabled people. Hopefully that will change over time.

[pinkcrusader]

No hard feelings some people don't like blogging no big deal. That being said thanks for the insight. I may be a wheeler but I'm not a dev so I only get one side. And whether or not you like blogs they are a good way to get things out. If it's OK with everyone I'd like to read a bit of what you all have to say? It'll keep you anonymous but still get the message out there.

[charlene]

I guess it's because most of the time disabled people aren't considered as sexual human beings by society...
Like we go out to a restaurant and the waitress asks me what my bf wants to drink... Like my friends ask me "So, u couldn't get no "healthy" bf?"...
and then it's not like you go out and be like "Hi, I'm Mike, I'm into girls with big breasts!" or "Hi, I'm Charlene, I like chairdudes!"...
I found out the best way to exclude all possibility of doubt is to make out in public

[Deleted]

The thing is, there are so many reasons why there is a negative association with Devs; Fear, lack of understanding, confusion, surprise, judgement, etc. To place those who oppose Devoteeism under any of these umbrella terms would be inaccurate simply because the issue is too complex to be explained away with a single word. In fact, to presume we know why we cause such discomfort for some would be to impose assumptions upon them, just has been done to us. I know this sounds like I'm playing the devil's advocate but just as Devogirl mentioned some negative encounters in her past, we really don't know the extent or frequency in which these things may have happened to others.

It seems that a possible solution, though perhaps the most intimidating, is to establish a dialogue between a dev and an individual who opposed her. From that point, discussion could move forward from hypotheticals and past experiences into a shared understanding of the issue. This may be idealistic but communication is always a step in the right direction. Case in point: this forum.

[Pony]

Man, that's what I like about this site...the open communication about this subject of relationships with chairdudes, or with AB girls. Most of my friends are AB, except Triassic, which is one cool chairdude, and I dig him, but my life, from a chair perspective, is rarely discussed. However, I'm very open about it, and at times, i get questions from friends, or comments that sometimes surprise me. Like the other night, a friend's girlfriend told me i was the sexiest guy she knew. That was a cool compliment coming from a totally non-dev, and definitely not a pick-up line. It was just cool to be noticed in that way because, as somebody on here just said, many times chairdudes aren't seen as sexual. I like Charlene's method of dispelling the notion - 'making out in public!!!' lol

Well, I gotta tell you, I'm extremely sexual, and that's a trait that starts much deeper than the sex organ.

I'm just glad we have this site to exchange ideas, break down some walls, shatter some stereotypes...even if it's just in this shadowy area of society!!

[pinkcrusader]

I agree Tony I haven't even been onhere for a week and already I've learned a ton. And everyone is so open to talking it's refreshing to see. And if we keep trying we'll get out of the shadows. Because everyone ought to know how great these ladies are.

[devogirl]

Well thanks, we really do appreciate it. Personally, I think it's more important for us to feel good about ourselves. If someone is determined to hate me, there's not much I can do about it, and I don't intend to take on the world. I really think the AB world in general is pretty indifferent to us, the real hate comes from a few disabled people, and sometimes, their non-devo AB wives. There are a few threads on that, if you care to dig back in the archives. But just to clear up some confusion, the reason many of us grew up feeling guilty and ashamed is not because of anti-devo ill-will, or backlash from the disabled community, most of us were not even really aware of that until we "came out" as devs. The reason why we feel so bad about ourselves is a lot more complicated, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that "good" girls are not supposed to have such strong sexual feelings, that fetishes are considered freaky or a sign of mental illness, and that disability is supposed to be something bad and tragic, not sexy and exciting.

As for reading our posts on your blog, I don't mind if you read what I wrote as long as you don't use my name, even my alias. Also please don't construe my personal consent for the consent of all the other posters, you should ask each individual. That may seem picky, but several of our members work in health care or other high-profile jobs and anonymity is really crucial to their continued presence here. Even for those of us who are not doctors/nurses/PTs etc, we'd rather not have too much revealed of a very personal nature.

[pinkcrusader]

I always ask, I'd never presume to use an other's words without consent. And I fully understand the need for anonymity. This world is a crazy place to live in.

[Valkyr]

Sorry for use a guess account but I'm repearing this laptop and my computer is out of line. I can't remember my pass!! LOL.
Like u know, I'm really new in the Dev universe and it was great to find this comunity. I've known some of the users here and it felt wonderfull. Here, AB and non AB tought me that what I felt all my life wasnt something strange, something "weird". I'm still "in the closet" but I thinking, seriously, to tell at least one of my friends about my feelings.
In my country, where the "macho culture" is so deep, is almost unthinkable to know a woman can be sexual and/or sentimentally atrackted to a chair user.
I was really lucky cause the first site I entered to come to know what to be a Dev is, was Paradevo.
Since my youth I discovered that people use to see things only in two tones: black or white but... there are so many shades!! and what people like or feel is not only black or white, there's a large spectre of grays.
Here, in Paradevo, I began to be proud of my devness, I`m not ashame anymore. Now, I need the courage to "come out of the closet"
Please, forgive the errors or the syntaxis... but the lack of sleep is afecting my mind!!!
I'm going to try to be here more often, I think that this week I'll have less work to do.
Love u all, people

[BA]

Hi Pink, welcome to the board. A bit late, as I was on vacation. I think everyone has said or touched upon what I feel are superior answers to your very good question. I have personally not seen your video blogs, but glad you made it over here. It is always good to have fresh points of view.

[Pony]

Val....very well said, even in your broken Danish/Spanish/Ingles accent!! You know I'm playing. You're right, so many 'gray areas' of what people feel, desire and find attractive. The Latin culture is filled with 'machismo', but don't be fooled, Norte Americanos aren't as open-minded as you might think. We're glad you're here!!

[candisland]

Hi. I know I'm probably late on the jump for this thread but after I saw it, I just had to throw in my two cents....
I have been running my own wheelchair fetish modeling whatever-you-want-to-call-it website since May06 and I have known a lot of devs. There are a few that I would say were unsavory but the huge majority were just plain nice people... the same ratio as the rest of the world I guess.
My bottom line is that everyone has turn-ons and turn-offs, regardless of what they might be and no one really knows how those things get installed anyway. One guy may only like blondes with green eyes. Or may go nuts for guys. Or may go crazy for a T7 paraplegic with nasty foot drop and spasms. ;D