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Post by myrrh on Jul 10, 2020 0:46:11 GMT -5
Recently I came across someone telling their story of BIID. She went on about how her body gave her dysphoria so bad that she wasn't able to keep a job or support her two children. She sought help, and her psychiatrist ended up prescribing a wheelchair, which she ended up using for "relief" for an hour or two a day. Now she's working and able to provide for herself and her kids.
Historically I've been very harsh on BIID. This woman's story gave me.... something to chew on. On the one hand, she was not functioning in society until her prescription chair got her to a point (she attributed her recovery to the chair and its "relief") where she was able to rejoin society- supporting herself and her children. On the other hand, she got a piece of equipment that was intended to go to someone who can't walk. She can walk. She got a power chair, too! Fuck that's expensive! But it's not more expensive than her living off of benefits and charity because she was unable to maintain a job. In a roundabout way, this mobility aid has enabled her to gain independence and contribute to society.
So.... what then? Do we not have enough power chairs for everyone who needs them? We've spent $139 million on Trump's golf trips and we famously have the highest military budget in the world. It's not a resource scarcity issue.
I don't know where that leaves things. Maybe it just shows that we're less advanced than we think we are, if indulging someone's outlandish fantasy is the best treatment for something that prevents a person from living normally. If prescription of a power chair is offensive, then I think we should be angry at the fucked up society that puts selfishness over caring for our (physically or mentally) ill. What's left, moral outrage? I don't think that's an invalid answer, not necessarily, but moral outrage tends to vary wildly over time. It's pretty flimsy.
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Post by mike on Jul 10, 2020 2:42:22 GMT -5
We need to avoid conflating issues. A good example many people are aware of is conflating homosexuality & pedophilia. In this case we need to avoid the connection between pretending & inappropriately consuming resources. One is a personal choice and the other is a matter of dishonesty. For me personally, I really don't care if they indulge their fantasy as it is harmless in and of itself. Consuming resources is a matter of dishonesty, and that would be a problem for me. But the two are not necessarily connected. It would be virtually impossible to discern the motivation of the other person, so it is easier to simply let it go. If a pretender asked me questions to enhance their pretending or merely because they were curious it wouldn't bother me in the least, who would it be hurting? Likewise if someone was a cross-dresser, as long as they are not trying to deceive me to fool me into getting involved, why would I care? It's their life, let them live it in any way they want as long as it's not hurting others. Attempting to triangulate our response predicated upon the ASSUMED motivations of the other person is a waste of time, you either like the other person or not, there is nothing to be gained by being judgemental.
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Post by cilantro on Jul 10, 2020 9:04:54 GMT -5
I’ve said this before in another thread on this topic, but just like devness, I don’t think this is a choice for people. I don’t think it’s something that they can change about themselves, likely they would if they could. As far as taking resources, be mad at the system. There should be enough resources for everybody. I brought this up in that other thread as well, but in my women and gender studies class in college we were assigned a bunch of articles debating wether Trans women should be allowed at all women’s institutions, the argument being that they were “taking resources.” The argument feels outdated now and I think it should also feel that way when made about biid.
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KingRichard
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Post by KingRichard on Jul 10, 2020 9:16:52 GMT -5
So long as the pretenders are not claiming benefits I really don't see the problem
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Post by Braced4Impact on Jul 10, 2020 9:25:46 GMT -5
Apologies for this thread, didn't know it would turn as bitter as it did.
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KingRichard
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Post by KingRichard on Jul 10, 2020 9:28:16 GMT -5
Apologies for this thread, didn't know it would turn as bitter as it did. No need to apologies everyone has different views when it comes down to pretenders
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Post by someonerandom on Jul 10, 2020 11:47:39 GMT -5
Apologies for this thread, didn't know it would turn as bitter as it did. You’ve not contributed to any ornery behavior, you just made a good thread. I don’t think anything people have said in this thread so far has been too bitter. As far as use of resources goes, it’s not just benefits or handicap parking I’m thinking of. For sports events or certain live shows there is disabled seating which I would need since I’m in a wheelchair. Sometimes these spots sell out, and I have seen unscrupulous AB people use them because they are more comfy and there is no official regulation of who can buy them. Should a pretender be entitled to use these spots? If related to BIID an argument could be made in favor of that. Same with handicap bathroom stalls, which even I preferred when I was AB. It does cause an inconvenience though when I have to wait for someone when there are 3 regular stalls available. Devogirl mentioned (if I’m interpreting correctly, haven’t re-read since last night), that for some pretenders it’s the sensation of being treated and seen as disabled by people in public. Technically nobody would be hurt by this, but the thought of it does rub me the wrong way as someone who experiences stupid bullshit from people in public because I’m in a wheelchair. While not in any way a perfect comparison, the closest example of a similar moral ambiguity I can think of would be cheating in a monogamous relationship. If they don’t find out then nobody is hurt, but is it still wrong? A partner would be hurt if they did find out, just as some people may be hurt to find out that a pretender does not have an actual physical disability. Like a betrayal of trust. I don’t think it’s a conflation to say that it’s possible for some pretenders to use resources that PWDs would use. Just like some pretenders just pretend at home and take pictures for their personal enjoyment. It’s an interesting subject I think. I’d be curious to hear from some pretenders or people who consider themselves to have BIID. Also the original question was whether or not you would date a pretender. Have seen like 3 answers to that including mine I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 12:47:59 GMT -5
Even though I am not a PWD, I don't have issues with pretenders as in them pretending with their equipment every once in a while. I can get on board with that but it does not touch me in a devy way. For me being a dev is not just looking at a wheelchair and getting off on it. So much more to it fir me. But let's say I had a real life pretender friend, I can see myself hanging out with them and them fulfilling their needs in pretending. If they want to be in a chair, it's no problem for me. I have just recently talked to a pretender friend online who acquired a wheelchair and went out with it. I am supportive. He also wanted to be nice and asked what I would like to see and he would send me a video or something. That's where I didn't need him to do that, first off because the chair he has is not a chair I like and second because he is not my type as in attraction. But he is happy just sharing with me his adventures. And we may meet up sometime and he can do his thing.
With actual BIID, it's difficult. I don't have a problem with what they long for but more so the difficulties when it comes to the mental aspect. To me it's like dealing with a mentally ill person and that can be painful and difficult. It's like an addiction of some sorts and it's hard to grasp when people want to hurt themselves to achieve the balance they seek. I do believe it's an imbalance in the brain and I feel bad for the people that have it. I shy away from connecting with BIID sufferers because I can’t deal with the often deeply manifested desire to be disabled. I don't judge them but it's too heavy for me from the mental aspect. I have found them to be completely occupied with themselves Of course lots of those definitions overlap sometimes, devotees, PWD, BIID, pretender, wannabe, certain fetishes/kinks aso...I have found lots of intersections over the years by talking to numerous people.
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KingRichard
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Post by KingRichard on Jul 10, 2020 14:46:52 GMT -5
Even though I am not a PWD, I don't have issues with pretenders as in them pretending with their equipment every once in a while. I can get on board with that but it does not touch me in a devy way. For me being a dev is not just looking at a wheelchair and getting off on it. So much more to it fir me. But let's say I had a real life pretender friend, I can see myself hanging out with them and them fulfilling their needs in pretending. If they want to be in a chair, it's no problem for me. I have just recently talked to a pretender friend online who acquired a wheelchair and went out with it. I am supportive. He also wanted to be nice and asked what I would like to see and he would send me a video or something. That's where I didn't need him to do that, first off because the chair he has is not a chair I like and second because he is not my type as in attraction. But he is happy just sharing with me his adventures. And we may meet up sometime and he can do his thing. With actual BIID, it's difficult. I don't have a problem with what they long for but more so the difficulties when it comes to the mental aspect. To me it's like dealing with a mentally ill person and that can be painful and difficult. It's like an addiction of some sorts and it's hard to grasp when people want to hurt themselves to achieve the balance they seek. I do believe it's an imbalance in the brain and I feel bad for the people that have it. I shy away from connecting with BIID sufferers because I can’t deal with the often deeply manifested desire to be disabled. I don't judge them but it's too heavy for me from the mental aspect. I have found them to be completely occupied with themselves Of course lots of those definitions overlap sometimes, devotees, PWD, BIID, pretender, wannabe, certain fetishes/kinks aso...I have found lots of intersections over the years by talking to numerous people. I think the main problem what disabled people have with pretenders is we don't have a choice on the matter when it comes down to our disabilities but with pretenders there choices to use a wheelchair or other disabled equipment when there really don't need it which rubs the disabled community the wrong way
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jordy
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Post by jordy on Jul 10, 2020 14:56:50 GMT -5
While I understand BIID is a medical condition, I refuse to engage in conversation about them wanting to be disabled or trying to injure themselves. Part of it is because I’m still active within my field and not reporting those conversations could severely impact my livelihood. If they did injure themselves, I could be in some serious trouble. Anything else is fine, but I also need to set this boundary for my own mental health. I generally Have a positive outlook, but some days are tough just dealing with my own disability. I find that many people with BIID have a romanticized version of what disability is like. Meaning they don’t take into consideration the fact that if they were to become disabled, it would involve things they wouldn’t enjoy. BIID isn’t new to the medical community (specifically mental health). However, it has been misdiagnosed under other umbrella terms and conditions. These observations are based on my professional interactions. BIID does need more attention in the medical field because it can become a very dangerous thing to deal with.i do not think these individuals deserve to be denied treatment, but the treatment for BIID is extremely specific and has to be done in a well balanced way with the individual’s specific needs and trauma in mind. It’s not a one size fits all type of thing. So if part of their treatment involves using a wheelchair at home or periodically in public then medically, they have every right to use one as it is a necessity for their treatment. They typically will not be given a parking pass and are told to load and unload the chair from the trunk of their car. In short, the resources those with BIID use are actually resources they should be using to avoid their condition reaching a crisis level.
Pretenders who have a fetish I don’t mind (as long as they use their own resources), but I do not support those who pretend so they can get benefits (any type of benefit reserved for PWDs. If they use their own money, fine). Unfortunately, there are people who will mimic symptoms, take medications that induce symptoms, and use benefit money in ways it is not meant to be used. They know what they are doing and are well aware of it. Even brag about it. Despite justice system involvement, they find loopholes like using children or elderly family members to get rent assistance or other cash assistance for them to take advantage of. This is absolutely not ok and situations such as those are hell to weed out when they do happen. But, it’s a statistically rare situation so not exactly a top concern.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Jul 10, 2020 15:07:59 GMT -5
To be clear, I meant to say pretenders who practice in their own homes. I also disagree with pretenders using the resources of PWDs, such as handicapped parking, seating, or anything in public. If they buy off-market stuff on eBay or whatever, cool, fine. As long as you're not hurting someone else, or doing something illegal, I don't care what people do in their own homes.
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KingRichard
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Post by KingRichard on Jul 10, 2020 15:11:08 GMT -5
To be clear, I meant to say pretenders who practice in their own homes. I also disagree with pretenders using the resources of PWDs, such as handicapped parking, seating, or anything in public. If they buy off-market stuff on eBay or whatever, cool, fine. As long as you're not hurting someone else, or doing something illegal, I don't care what people do in their own homes. Agreed what people do in they own home is their business
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2020 18:17:52 GMT -5
Sometimes the goal to be mistaken for and admired as a real PWD, which is why we have such problems here with pretenders targeting devs, but not targeting the PWDs here. The wheeler guys I have known don't mind if a girlfriend sometimes messes around in their chair or tries it out, but in my mind, that's not at all the same thing as pretending. It is very unfair when pretenders target devs and basically try to fool them or just try to blend in with our community and are not honest. Of course they won't be honest most likely because it defeats the purpose of pretending. It's happened to less experienced devs and it's not very nice. I'm suspicious of people often and I know that makes me seem like a b.... sometimes but I have a very hard time with people who try to fool or use devs for their own selfish gain. I can connect with pretenders if they are upfront and honest about it. But again, that doesn't happen very often.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 18:26:23 GMT -5
I find it difficult to sympathise with pretenders, and I’m not sure why I feel that way. I agree with jordy that a lot of pretenders have a romanticised idea of disability and only cherry pick the bits they like as opposed to the reality. Perhaps it’s being in a relationship with a pwd and seeing just how difficult and frustrating day to day life can sometimes become, it makes me think that pretenders are appropriating something they have no right to. In your own home, no problem , do what makes you happy. But outside where people will feel sympathy or treat you differently I just don’t feel is right.
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