Can you make a perfect movie?

[BA]

Question to wheelers and devs: How would you really like to see a wheeler portrayed in a romantic movie? If you could write and direct such a movie, what would be your plot, subplot, etc? I'd love to hear your creative ideas, fun ideas and serious ideas.

As for me, I'd like to see a modern movie where the wheeler gets the girl, keeps the girl and doesn't get miraculously "cured" somehow along the way.

[Claire]

I'm with you, AB. And he's also not an asshole or some kind of diabolical genius. Just a genuinely nice guy. The actor would have to be a real para, and I'd like to see lots of leg and transfers.

[devogirl]

Nov 14, 2008 22:40:53 GMT -5 BA said:

As for me, I'd like to see a modern movie where the wheeler gets the girl, keeps the girl and doesn't get miraculously "cured" somehow along the way.

Yes!!! I agree. Also he's adjusted and self-sufficient when they meet, no "recovery" stories (like Waterdance) where you're wondering if she will leave him because of the injury. Also no suicidal wheelers (like Gattacca or Freak City). And the guy is a normal, three-dimensional person, with more aspects to his personality than just "disabled person."
Since we're dreaming here, I'd really like to see a film where the girl is a devotee, not a wannabe like in Quid Pro Quo, and without the simple-minded psychologizing (ie, some childhood trauma that is revealed at the climax of the film). And yes, I am available to play the part, ha ha ha ;D

[BA]

I'd like to play with ideas for a script. Indeed, Devogirl, no 'recovery' storyline, no suicidal issues or horrible drug/alcohol habits to quell the "terrible anger". I'd LOVE to have the girl be a devotee, without being a wannabe and where the psychology gets deep, but in terms of the relationship itself. How would the relationship go, in terms of trust issues? Would this just be too 'mundane' and boring for a film?

Thoughts?

[Pony]

Hmmmmm, good question, AB!! I'll throw my ideas out, not sure it's movie material coz you gotta have some drama, especially for an ending, right? Or, do they just live a normal life as the picture fades out? I, personally, think there's lots of room to create a good drama, and maybe that cool ending where the dude gets the girl. Not sure how you weave the Devo desires into it, as you'd have to show her keen interests in chairdudes, not just the one dude coz there's lots of girls that will fall for a guy in a chair, not necessarily a Dev, right?

I always loved the story line in the movie "Coming Home". It had the right amount of 'chemistry' that was built upon and tension to make it emotional and not love easily won. However, the ending wasn't pleasant, and they didn't run off together into the sunset. i like the idea of a woman discovering this Dev, or sexual feelings, within herself after meeting this guy that totally blows her stereotype images of a paralyzed guy away. I must admit, this is personally satisfying, as it's happened many times in my chair-life, and anytime you BREAK that wall of preconception of 'pooor guy, he's paralyzed, he must be sad, or mad, or something' it feels good. So just imagine how good it feels to transform a girl, who couldn't understand how 'hot' sexually she might get with a dude in chair. It's really all about pushing the right 'mental buttons', and so the girl actress in my movie comes to an 'awakening' that this guy is the BEST damn guy she's ever been with. Not only in intellect, sense of humor, emotionally, but yes, sex, too.

If you build this dialogue, history, mixed feelings, inner-battle among the Dev, then I think you have a damn good movie. I'll be the casting director for Devs...for FREE!!! lol

[§cαrL£t]

This is an awesome idea, I'll give it some thought.

[BA]

If I had the connections, I'd be seriously willing to get this story told.

[devogirl]

Ok, since you asked, here is my ideal devotee-wheeler film. It's sketched out in a bare-bones kind of way, without the real details that make films interesting, but here's the plot:

The setting is some big city, maybe Chicago or San Francisco. Both the girl AND the guy are professionals of some sort, fairly successful but in a real way, not a glam fake Hollywood way. They're both just regular people, no issues with drugs, alcohol, depression, abuse, etc etc, none of that. They're maybe in their late 20s, early 30s.

The story is mostly told from the devotee's point of view. It starts with her meeting a gorgeous para guy by accident somehow, maybe at a coffee shop or through friends or tangentially through work or something. She wants to ask him out immediately, but how to approach him without being weird or stalkerish? The conflict at the beginning is how they get together, and her telling him that she is a devotee, which he finds strange at first. But they have a lot in common and form a strong connection quickly. The middle of the film is them falling in love and the relationship becoming more serious. Lots of scenes of them doing regular things together, her learning about life with SCI, but it's mostly handled in a mellow way. He's had at least one previous girlfriend post-injury, and there's no debilitating self-esteem issue.

The main conflict comes from outside the relationship: her friends and especially her parents strongly object to the relationship, and make things difficult. Her girlfriends can't understand what she sees in him, and exclude them from social events because they feel uncomfortable. Her parents know she's dated other disabled guys in the past, and try to "fix" her. They treat the guy with hostility.

Impulsively, our two main characters move in together early in the relationship. Maybe her apartment wasn't accessible, and she decides to move to a new place and rearrange her life to accommodate him. But after they move in together, things get tense. He's angry about how her friends and family treat him, and that she won't stand up to them. She starts to doubt herself as a devotee, and he wonders if she's really taking the relationship seriously. And the reality of his life starts to get to her: she gets increasingly angry about lack of access or people's condescending attitudes in public. They argue and break up temporarily, but somehow they come back together and resolve their differences. She finally stands up to her parents, and her friends finally come around. Once she's learned to be more assertive, the little things bother her less, and she regains a more positive outlook. He's reassured that she's not just living out some devotee fantasy with him. They live happily ever after. The end.

[Triassic]

no...no...i'm afraid i've gotta stick with the ol' Evil Genius type of movie crip, a la dr. strangelove. but maybe he could be tamed and reformed by the love of a devotee? yeah...

[BA]

Nov 16, 2008 6:12:31 GMT -5 Triassic said:

no...no...i'm afraid i've gotta stick with the ol' Evil Genius type of movie crip, a la dr. strangelove. but maybe he could be tamed and reformed by the love of a devotee? yeah...

poo on you Tri for being so boring!

I LOVE Devogirl's basic outline. I love it alot. I'd love to see the Dev's self-talk (doubts, guilts, fears) treated in some sort of interesting and tangible way. Maybe her internal dialogue could be acted out as part of the movie. But I would like to get inside HIS head too, perhaps do the same thing from his viewpoint. Play out the same scene from his point of view as well. I don't know, it's hard to describe. With a movie like this, assuming that the majority of the audience would be suspect of ulterior motives on the part of both characters because it's an unconventional scenario, I think it would be very cool to uncover the true emotions going on inside their heads and allow them to have at least one smoking hot sex scene without it being fetishized. Quid Pro Quo was the opposite, the focus WAS the fetish. In fact, I'd like this movie to go down in history as having the single hottest sex scene in movie history, simply because she so longs for this man and he is able to do things for her that nobody else ever could. Hmmmm. Getting hot thinking 'bout it.

[roger888]

Nov 16, 2008 20:44:56 GMT -5 @jasononwheels said:

Wow, devogirl, it sounds like you've put quite a bit of thought into this. That sounds great. The only thing I could add (and understand that I'm not creative enough to make a cake, much less a movie) is that the ending is not dramatic enough. "They lived happily ever after" doesn't cut it in Hollywood anymore. Something needs to happen where he proves to her family and friends that he is, indeed, the love of her life, all she needs, etc. But what? I really don't know. Maybe she gets in some kind of jam, and despite numerous obstacles he has to overcome, he rescues her.

OK,here's a variation on The Graduate.Wheeler snatches girl from her wedding day to an AB(Looks of outrage,horror & anger from all weddings guests apart from one who may or may not be a dev) & gets married.Friends & family can't do anything about it.

THE END?

[Phil]

It seems like you people have a pretty good start. Whatever goes in, please leave out the gratuitous "He tried harder" BS heroic nonsense.

[Ouch]

I'm a bit of a 'film devotee' (I'm not trying to use 'devotee' in a joking sense, I'm mean that in a seperate sense), and this has been something (this topic: make an awesome dev movie) has been something I've literally been working on for years!

Actually, I had written up (well several now...yes, I'm weird and boring! I write screenplays for fun!) a full-fledged screenplay (that no one but me (and now you all) knows about) called 'Holy Grail' that was a Devotee-Wheeler romance of sorts (with specks of drama and comedy within, as well). I began it years ago - I was told several times I would make a 'great actor', and I have enjoyed performing (in various ways), but I always resolved not to pursue an acting career, because my mentality was 'I'd never make it - the image of a 'wheeler actor' is not something Hollywood wants'...so I've never really pursued it - but for the sake of self-indulgence, I wrote myself the 'ideal' film I would have loved to starred in. I originally began writing it when I was fourteen, so the first draft, in my defence, was not very great. I have revised it several times (and have done a lot of work recently, a lot being done after I was shown Paradevo). At the time, I only knew about male devotees, so as far as I knew, there was no such thing as female devotees (though I figured in the back of my mind, there had to be female devotees - I had been inquisitive one day and found out about the whole devotee thing years ago...more for personal reasons rather than 'I wanted a dev girl on my lap' sorta' thing...)...so I wrote the screenplay idealising an encounter with a 'Holy Grail' - a 'Female Devotee', lol.

A lot of films with a wheeler and lady romance in it, we all know, is a lot of 'blaaargh' for lack of a better expression. I think however, to strip drama, and personal issues from the characters entirely would 'cinematically sterilise' them - they wouldn't be 'real', I think 'normal' people have issues just as anyone else, and even as a 'wheeler' and those 'complications', I don't think it would be believable to have a character without 'issues', but those 'issues' don't necessarily have to be related to being a wheeler...a person can have inner daemons that don't relate to health and living circumstances.

...in the case of my script/my ideal film with this set-up, I think we have to 'explore' what a Devotee is, otherwise, it just looks like a mundane relationships. We really have to show that a Devotee is exceptional...and to a lot of folks, a disabled person in general is 'exceptional', so taking two 'exceptional' elements of society, I think what really is desired by a lot of Devotees is to show that these two 'exceptional' elements, can engage in a completely, typical, mundane (but what really is mundane/normal/vanilla?) relationship...a process that is completely 'normal and usual' to society. Two 'Exceptions' acting 'Normal'. That is a general goal, and I would love to have that general theme portrayed (and had it portrayed in what I wrote). However, that would not constitute a film, that would be a biography - and...many would argue just that general premise could get quite boring...there has to be a plot beside that, and a story to tell, somewhat in parallel to this central theme of a pairing.

My film (and some would probably already begin to snub this and walk away here), would show a 'bad depiction' of a Devotee (and I'm sorta' crucifying myself this way, lol)...It would take place mainly in a 'medium-sized' city, not a big name 'Boston, New York, L.A.', place, but a sizeable place that isn't a sleepy, creepy, backwoods place...and wouldn't quite qualify as a 'Small town' either...but it has a slight bit of anonmity so I have license to give it its own personality. I originally pictured my personal writing of such a plot to take place in Connecticut in a suburban area between a rural farming area and a big city (perhaps like New Haven), upper middle-classish area. We'd begin with seeing a wheeler, who is educated (though not arrogant because of this...really just a guy minding his own business, and if anything, a bit mechanical and pattern oriented...he was in the 'dating game' before, but higher education and a prospect for a really good job (he's young, relatively fresh grad.) has him focusing most of his efforts on this, and he developed a mentality of: 'I'm done chasing for awhile' after an unfortunate and unexpected end to his previous relationship (thus a bit of personal drama) - he was in a relatively stable relationship, with a 'normal' woman (as in 'non-Devotee') but an illness or catastrophic event was fatal and she was killed, thus ending the relationship. He became introverted (but not necessarily a recluse or a hermit, or bitter by any means) and focused on his career (because he focused on career to avoid confronting emotions of his loss, again, for the dramatic element) - I see him being a junior executive/junior management of a fairly large company - something perhaps like ESPN or that like...I pictured him being in media of some sort. He has a 'working personality' where he is quite 'social' while at work and he's good at what he does, hence why out of grad school, he is desireable by a large renown company for a big-time position. He has the skills, and the personality to get the job done, and done well. To begin, he is watching television (and to introduce the film we're going to get a look at his 'daily grind') and there is a local news report that speaks of a short story about a woman (a disabled woman) who was being stalked, and the stalker was arrested that night (the stalker was a male devotee). Obviously the story is a bit misconstrued, and details are not quite correct, but there is a minor little aside to the story mentioning 'Devotee' (as one of those local 'special interest' stories) and there's a little blurb talking about what we know Devotees to be, of course, the facts are quite muddled and misinterpreted...but it's the 'news' and most people watching the report take it for fact. This wheeler character (who I envisioned named 'Dante', or 'Victor'...) is a little more inquisitive and does what any red-bloodied young American does these days: consults wikipedia! He reads up a blurb or two on the few listings he finds on Devotees, and is a bit interested...but it's late and goes to bed, and sleeps on it (and several other thoughts) - during this sleep sequence, I figured you'd actually 'see' his dreams - naturally a lot of it is desiring after women (he is a man, after all...and I think this is a 'normalising' aspect of the film)...him having some fantasy dream...some 'skanky sex dream' of some sort I would figure is in order, followed by a more 'romantic' "Wow, I wish there was a woman 'Devotee'...that would be cool to be stalked...well maybe not...and then naturally there's a 'flashback' scene in his dream depicting what happened with his last relationship.

Eventually some social event (probably related to his work, seems most believable and realistic), he ends up encountering a woman that is in fact a Devotee...he notices she has an 'unnatural interest' in him, during the whole event. Actually, the character would probably be involved in wheeler sports as well...and that could be another chance for an encounter...a volunteer with the sports association that he is a part of could be a Devotee ('The new girl', perhaps even)...I know that there is both a IWS team and a NWBA team in Connecticut (and they have a lot of hot grad. girls as volunteers...it is quite possible ), so that could be an avenue for the encounter - or as aforementioned, the 'work event' gets them together.

Yeah, that was a lot of boring blah detail probably (Hell, I even have music selections already picked out for certain sequences! Fleetwood Mac's 'Dreams' for the aforemetioned 'Dream sequence'...I think the lyrics are fitting...(it can even be raining outside his window) "...women, they will come and they will go..."), but I've always felt rather passionate about this prospect and topic (and I never really saw it discussed before or I missed it), so forgive me lol! I'm starting to sound like one of the Devs, myself...

...anyways, more generally, once the genesis of the relationship happened, I see the movie taking more of the role of chronicling the evolution of the relationship, and overcoming some of their personal issues: The guy probably has some natural insecurity (Ladies, I know you don't like it...but it's true for some of us...we need a little time to process the reality, we can't initially believe the odds are working for us!), his grieving issues from his last relationship (the Dev is probably a bit 'aggravated' at times, that he can't get over the past...'Hollywood material' in my opinion), struggling with what could be seen as 'workaholicism' (He has such energy and drive for his career previously, he needs to learn to take it down a gear 'more Hollywood material'). Her issues could involve the obvious 'family/peer approval' I envision her (whom I named 'Giana'; I picture her being beautiful/good looking, of course...but definitely not 'plastic fake supermodel'-like...(and of course not looking akin to a bulldog either as well)...age, possibly younger - a year or two finishing grad. school...) parents disapproving, or being very, very callously indifferent...and having a very supportive sibling (who'd I like to be a totally heterosexual, normal non-douchebag brother). Her friends probably are a bit leery or awkward to the situation...and a struggle will be for them to support the relationship - they both may even have a wildcard 'common' friend (another link) that supports the thing, and is an advocate (who could even be a 'closeted dev' (a nice male one, maybe!)) for them. The specifics of all this 'filler plot' would be tedious and probably painfully boring to read...

...as for the end - I believe there does need to be a 'dramatic' element to transition to the end...something happens (usually a negative thing, a sort of struggle to overcome), and it acts as a 'proof' that the relationship is good, and should endure...therefore after surmounting the challenge, the said couple makes 'more permanent arrangements' (and their life circumstances of course magically seem to suit that option), whatever those would be...and...have 'a chance for happily ever after'...which of course is a bit sickeningly idealist...but how else could it be ended...? I'd like a more 'realist idealist' ending if possible...

...and okay, I've horribly embarassed myself, I'll shut up now...

[BA]

Wow, how cool is it to have a devotee/wheeler screenplay written by a wheeler!? Wind, you have some very workable and great elements in there. I have to print out your post and take a few days to look it over.

I think your initial presentation of "devotee as pariah" via the TV is rather brilliant. I also like the fact that this guy's issues are there but not surrounding his being in a chair (workaholic, greiving a loss, etc.). However, I would have had his last relationship end because he was too much of a workaholic, not because of a death tragedy. Maybe he is a workaholic because it helps him to avoid real intimacy in some way. What could he be afraid of? It would be nice for him to have typical flaws and faults where the relationship with the devotee forces him to confront those issues that have killed past relationship(s). (without it being Jerry McGuire) It would also be nice for the devotee to also have a few realtionship killing flaws (maybe trust issues or whatever). In some way, these two have to get 'real' with eachother for the first time and it is scary for them because they have both been wearing masks (has she ever revealed herself as a devotee to anyone before him? Is this her big "outing" of herself?).

Dream sequences are very cool... love them. Music is an afterthought but I'd def. stay away from the typical tried and true (yeah, kill me for being the NYC girl) and get with some more cutting edge independent music... but that's WAY down the road, right?

I think it's very cool that you have been working on this for so long! Way to go Wind.

[Phil]

I like Wind's idea. I don't like the athlete part, though. It's been overdone, IMO, and it's already a stereotype. Since it's a film to dispell stereotypes, can't we start there?