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Post by Claire on Mar 16, 2009 7:12:21 GMT -5
claire's example is exactly what i mean by 'no social skills'. if some woman acted like that to me, i'd be freaked out too. well...unless she was really hot, i geuss. What I found weird was the lack of eye contact. He wasn't looking at ME much, just my chair, my legs, and talking all the time of wheeling. Of course later I wondered how long he had been watching me. And he wasn't hot, but he didn't look like some big loser either. Just a totally normal guy, dressed rather well actually. If he is anything like me, he's probably way better socially with non-wheelers.
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Post by Ouch on Mar 16, 2009 21:57:40 GMT -5
claire's example is exactly what i mean by 'no social skills'. if some woman acted like that to me, i'd be freaked out too. well...unless she was really hot, i geuss. What I found weird was the lack of eye contact. He wasn't looking at ME much, just my chair, my legs, and talking all the time of wheeling. Of course later I wondered how long he had been watching me. And he wasn't hot, but he didn't look like some big loser either. Just a totally normal guy, dressed rather well actually. If he is anything like me, he's probably way better socially with non-wheelers. You find it weird...but do you find it understandable from being a Devotee yourself? Would you say similar things are foci of your attention, even if you're not 'overt' about it? I think that's the primary difference, is most male devotees go about things, like well...males, and 'go for the kill' with their attraction, whereas female devotees tend to linger and agonise and avoid. The awkwardness really stems from social mores related to interaction both with persons with disability and between male and female intercourse (no, not the physical kind, the social kind...which leads into the physical kind if the social kind goes well...).
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Post by laurasweetou on Mar 17, 2009 19:37:29 GMT -5
That is kind of a creepy story, Claire. My theory is that the traditional role is that men do the pursuing and women get pursued. I don't have a disability but if a guy is too aggressive, I get creeped out. Aggressive men are a HUGE turnoff to me. Part of it might be fear of some kind of physical threat, since I'm quite small. I think dev guys can be especially aggressive and women can get very freaked out. However, I think men are much less likely to be scared off by an aggressive woman. At worst, they get annoyed, but they don't feel threatened the way we do. I don't think a man has ever had to have his buddy escort him to his car because he was afraid of some girl following him, which is definitely something I have had to do many times. RIGHT ON AMY!
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Post by Claire on Mar 18, 2009 6:15:03 GMT -5
What I found weird was the lack of eye contact. He wasn't looking at ME much, just my chair, my legs, and talking all the time of wheeling. Of course later I wondered how long he had been watching me. You find it weird...but do you find it understandable from being a Devotee yourself? Would you say similar things are foci of your attention, even if you're not 'overt' about it? Yeah, of course. The irony's not lost on me. But I always made an effort to NOT do that, because it is weird. If I talk to a wheeler I concentrate on his face and talking to HIM as normally as I possibly can. This is not really an issue for me much anymore, though. I think female devotees to that out of a desire to act appropriately and NOT appear like some predator. So why do so many male devotees not care about predatory behavior?
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Post by Ouch on Mar 18, 2009 23:10:27 GMT -5
You find it weird...but do you find it understandable from being a Devotee yourself? Would you say similar things are foci of your attention, even if you're not 'overt' about it? Yeah, of course. The irony's not lost on me. But I always made an effort to NOT do that, because it is weird. If I talk to a wheeler I concentrate on his face and talking to HIM as normally as I possibly can. This is not really an issue for me much anymore, though. I think female devotees to that out of a desire to act appropriately and NOT appear like some predator. So why do so many male devotees not care about predatory behavior? It's not that they don't care, they don't realise... ...it's going back to the male vs. female approach. Even in terms of 'regular' men, if you went around one day, trying to look 'available', but went walking vs. wheeling; men would behave similarly, except the objects of interest would not be a chair, etc. - it would be your chest, and such. In the case of Devotees, the chair just happens to be the first object of interest, not the mammaries, or the rear, etc., etc. The female Devotees don't necessarily act out of some higher moral ground, it's just not in their nature to be 'predatory'... ...again, these are generalisations, there are unlike individuals in both categories, and I have seen first-hand individuals from both those categories in contrast with the normal ones typically encountered.
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Fred
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Post by Fred on Apr 15, 2009 12:12:18 GMT -5
I've been lurking on this board for a long time, but not for the usual reason! This thread interested me because I'm a male devotee of paraplegic women and I agree that a site like this does not, and probably could not, exist to connect male devotees to female wheelers.
I appreciate the more thoughtful musings on devoteeism that can be found on here, and often find them to chime with my own experiences, despite the gender reversal.
Deep down I really don't think there is much difference between us... I guess in general, socially inadequate weirdos tend to be men, and so socially inadequate weirdo devs tend to be men too. But we're not all like that!
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amy
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Post by amy on Apr 15, 2009 19:39:51 GMT -5
Fred: I think you're right that disabled females tend to be wary of devs because the ones who make themselves known are the crazy ones. Honestly, I'm a little wary of male devs. If I were a disabled female, I would to stay far away from you guys. Isn't that hypocritical? So I'm glad you joined and maybe you can prove me wrong.
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Post by Claire on Apr 15, 2009 20:47:37 GMT -5
I appreciate the more thoughtful musings on devoteeism that can be found on here, and often find them to chime with my own experiences. Deep down I really don't think there is much difference between us... I guess in general, socially inadequate weirdos tend to be men, and so socially inadequate weirdo devs tend to be men too. But we're not all like that! Thanks Fred for coming out of lurk mode for us. I always suspected there were more male devs who would appreciate our discussions.
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Post by Triassic on Apr 16, 2009 0:36:34 GMT -5
i never doubted that there are plenty of completely normal male devos.
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Post by Claire on Apr 16, 2009 8:34:42 GMT -5
Oh I know, I know very well there are, but usually when one shows up (or a female wheeler), they are pointedly told "this isn't the place for you" and made to feel unwelcome, which I think sucks. I would *like* to hear what they have to say.
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Post by E on Apr 16, 2009 9:22:04 GMT -5
Oh I know, I know very well there are, but usually when one shows up (or a female wheeler), they are pointedly told "this isn't the place for you" Well, there's a good reason for that... This isn't the place for them.
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Post by Claire on Apr 16, 2009 10:43:45 GMT -5
Well, Eric...technically it's not the place for you, either! And yet you have something to contribute and I think we are all better off for your participation. In fact it wouldn't be the same without you. When I first joined, there was this big brouhaha and was told by some people that I should leave, but I stuck with it, and did NOT bring droves of pretenders/BIID people with me, and it turned out okay.
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Post by E on Apr 16, 2009 12:19:25 GMT -5
Well, Eric...technically it's not the place for you, either! I can point to dozens of times that I've said this. And yet you have something to contribute and I think we are all better off for your participation. This could be debated. Not just me, but wheelers in general. When I first joined, there was this big brouhaha and was told by some people that I should leave, but I stuck with it, and did NOT bring droves of pretenders/BIID people with me, and it turned out okay. You're a devotee of disabled men. You fit fine. There are a myriad of sites for devotees of disabled men. Tons. If any female devotee wants a male devotee's opinion, they're not hard to find...
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Fred
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Post by Fred on Apr 16, 2009 13:41:56 GMT -5
It is true that there are plenty of sites catering to the male devotee, but they are almost exclusively about picture sharing. There are none that provide the kind of forum for frank conversations on the psychology of devoteeism that exists on this board.
I wonder if it might be because a greater proportion of female devotees actually end up having real world relationships with male wheelers, than do male devotees with female wheelers. Partly this might just be statistics - there far fewer spinally injured women, but I’m sure there are other reasons as well… I’d be interested in people’s thoughts.
Personally, I have dated paraplegic women, and I whilst I still enjoy looking at pictures, I find myself wanting to dig a little deeper into what it means to be a devotee…
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Post by matisse on Apr 16, 2009 15:40:14 GMT -5
It is true that there are plenty of sites catering to the male devotee, but they are almost exclusively about picture sharing. There are none that provide the kind of forum for frank conversations on the psychology of devoteeism that exists on this board. I wonder if it might be because a greater proportion of female devotees actually end up having real world relationships with male wheelers, than do male devotees with female wheelers. I think it's because chicks like to talk......and talk.........and talk...........
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