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Post by Ath on Jul 21, 2014 12:40:22 GMT -5
And ofc "I only hope my baby is healthy and not disabled." yes i'ts controversial, I usually respond to that "You know you will love your baby just as much even if he or she is disabled, it's just difficult to prepare for it."
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nas
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Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by nas on Jul 21, 2014 12:58:30 GMT -5
"Oh quit whining, you could have been killed or worse, paralyzed!". Is it the first time you hear such a line? It IS a line, I've heard it so many times here where I live. I'm sure I heard it before but this time it really stuck. Also things like what Ath said. No, but seriously, do those people really want their family members dead rather than disabled? I doubt that, honestly, even though with the amount of accesability here, being in a wheelchair really limits your options regarding your social life. I forgot though, where do you live?
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Post by orchid on Jul 21, 2014 13:24:42 GMT -5
Nice topic indeed! Ok for me the main one is people being stupid or more accurately not thinking before speaking and/or acting. I dislike that generally in all facets of my life but when it comes to PWDs/disability it hits a bit too close to home to just ignore it. As a side note, I'm not open as a dev except to my boyfriend, a good friend who didn't bat an eyelid when I told him and my sister who kind of knows more or less but we never really talk about it. My close friends know my boyfriend uses a wheelchair but not more than that. I was called admirable by one for being able to disregard the wheelchair. I've had colleagues tell me how they would be rather dead than disabled, express how it was best that actually a woman we both knew died in a car accident with her husband as otherwise she would be paralysed (no one seemed to realise that by saying that they were actually saying that this was also good for their 20year old daughter who lost both her parents..). And these kind of statements make my blood boil. It gets me thinking that somebody may have actually said that about my boyfriend. This then makes me quite emotional. My father once called me a pervert for saying that I thought that pistorius was good-looking (that was before the whole gf/murder case). A pervert? Really? How stupidly narrow-minded. That comment I just ignored. Then there are some people who are overly kind to me/us when I'm out with my boyfriend. Now I would like to say that this is perhaps extra good service they provide in the UK but sometimes it is a notch too much and makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. I'm sure it is well-intended but still sometimes I would prefer if they dialed it down a bit . My sister actually asked me if I liked PWDs cause I was insecure about myself. For me that sounds a bit silly, I'm confident and secure in my decisions. So I don't think it applies but it is difficult to argue against. What I've also heard a lot lately, and again it is good-natured so I shouldn't be fussing too much about it, is 'oh take good care of him' (him being my boyfriend). Funnily enough in our relationship he has been the one taking care of me.I just find it odd that people's minds don't go there, I assume cause of the physical aspect they think I need to do the caring. I liked how Maurine phrased it: if you don't tell people you're a dev then they think it is true love, that you are the most admirable and noble of women for being with someone disabled. If they know you're a dev chances is they will reduce the attraction to the wheelchair!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 19:29:58 GMT -5
It makes me wonder how much of a cultural influence affects this? Of course I have experienced first hand, and second hand, some of these stupid comments here in the USA. But they are more the exception to the rule, rather than the rule. I think North Americans might have a little different POV when looking at PWD's, including in regards with relationships. And I am starting to feel very fortunate for that! At least my personal experiences haven't been nearly as horrific as some of you have described! Of course, I am sure that even in the States, a paraplegic is looked at differently than someone more severely disabled. So maybe that is also a reason why I haven't received that much negative feedback. Maybe my experiences would be different if I were married to a quad? Or Cp... Or MD? Im not sure where everyone is from, and how much of an impact the cultures, and maybe severity of disability, have on this. But it seems pretty clear that it has a bigger impact than what I had realized. I've never had anyone look down on me for who I am married to. At least no one would dare say it to me directly.
I'm so glad you brought up the cultural aspect -- I definitely think it plays a huge part. Although I'm a Canadian born Asian and consider myself to be pretty westernized, my parents and family are very much traditionally Asian. Not sure how many of you here are familiar with how the typical Asian family is, but they can be pretty closed minded when it comes to anything that's not considered the "norm" by society. Of course there are always exceptions, but in general and in my experience, Asians tend to be a lot less open to accepting and/or willing to learn about PWD. Personally, I have been told numerous times not to drink/party excessively or else I'll have a disabled baby. I've also seen my parents cringe when seeing disabled people in public and then whispering about how they feel so sorry for that person. If I were to decide to marry a disabled man, I'm pretty sure my family would disown me (no joke). Even though I want to educate my family and tell them that their rigid definition of acceptable/normal is so wrong, because I haven't revealed my devness to anyone I know in real life, I just don't say anything at all...
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Post by Emma on Jul 21, 2014 23:24:16 GMT -5
Wow this thread is getting good!
I agree with you tc123. I haven't had anyone say anything really bad to me either. I am also in the US on the west coast. My husband is pretty obviously a military veteran based on his age and injury (he actually used to have a purple heart on the back of his chair but got way too much attention so got rid of it). Anyway I've been told we were a beautiful couple, that I was an angel and other comments like that but nothing over the top or obviously inappropriate. The thing I get most often is when people find out how he was injured they always comment about how hard it must have been for me when he was injured. I smile inside and quietly explain that I met him after he was injured so it wasn't upsetting fr me at all. They are always super surprised and I love how they walk away from that having to rethink their perceptions of disabled men.
kaylee your situation with your family sounds really tough. I hope you can figure out a way to open them up to the idea of disability without it involving being disowned. I worked with several Asian families who had kids with developmental disabilities and their perception of disability was so skewed that it made things much harder.
Orchid where are you located?
Oh and the whole have a healthy baby thing....I totally remember thinking that I wanted a healthy baby too but my definition of healthy is different than other non devs. I would have been okay having a baby that was an amputee or with some other disability that was not life threatening.
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Post by Maurine on Jul 22, 2014 3:22:06 GMT -5
I agree it depends on cultural environment and the level of experience those around you have had with disability. Age and level of education might be a factor, too. I never get any outright negative or unsuppotive comments. My family and friends like my partner a lot. Some were a bit shocked when they were told about his SCI, but when they met him, he proved wrong any prejudices they might have had. I don't think it only depends on the severity of the disability as from my experience, AB often consider the wheelchair or the not walking part the most limiting aspect of my partner's disability. I have a hard time explaining them that he could be completely independent if his fingers worked properly. AB seem to distinguish between congenital and acquired disability. There was a friend who seemingly didn't consider my bf's wheelchair a big deal at all, but then she said: "I mean he's normal. He was in an accident and once could walk." Would it have made a difference to her if he had been disabled for all his life? Another friend told me there was a difference between "normal people who just happen to use a wheelchair" like my partner and such wheelers who's speech is affected or who couldn't control their facial muscles. She didn't intend to say that this was her attitude. Quite contrarily, she said this was what society in general thought.
While I haven't heard any comments yet that were supposed to be mean or called me a pervert, I get these well-naturedness orchid talked about a lot. In the very beginning I enjoyed everyone being nice to me. I once had a seller at a market stall change from annoyed and grumpy to kind and friendly within seconds due to my bf rolling by, making clear that we belonged together. If this happened again, I would feel a bit offended. I also hate those who consider me mature and admirable for being with a wheeler they have in most cases never met.
This "better dead than disabled" attitude is something I consider dangerous if a whole society thinks like that. I didn't get this comment yet, but an acquaintance had a hard time believing that my bf wasn't nearly as miserable as her but actually happier than the average European.
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melita
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RIP
Posts: 141
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: Divorced
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Post by melita on Jul 22, 2014 5:46:44 GMT -5
This "better dead than disabled" attitude is something I consider dangerous if a whole society thinks like that. This kind of attitude (which explains the translation of ONE book with a disabled hero - Me Before You - in my surroundings - assisted suicide, remember?) is one of the reasons I am here. There is another as dangerous as this: "You can HELP the disabled, but you can NOT whatsoever FALL IN LOVE with them!" The society responds only on charity level, which angers me to no end. I have said in another thread that average family hides their disabled members as a shame. 19th century attitude? Maybe even worse. There was a monk from New Zealand in a monastery I often go to (he had passed away). He had a bad lag and had lost an eye. He was told to be a shame for the saint whose name he got! No wonder I am so embittered. I can go on and on having had disabled students at school where teachers are a problem, and not other kids!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2014 18:00:04 GMT -5
I agree that doing what's right for you is important but for me, family is not only important, it's my number one priority. I would give up anything for them and would do anything to make them happy. That being said, I don't think that I have eliminated the possibility of being with a disabled man because of my family's opposition to it -- I'm not seeking out a relationship with a disabled man because I've already found the man I'm meant to be with (though it's a complicated relationship lol...long story). However, if I was single, I don't think I could be with a disabled man...but I'd probably still fantasize about it Put it this way -- the fact that I'm with someone who's not the same type of Asian as I am (nevertheless Asian) and my family has accepted this -- it's a hugeee deal. The idea of me being with someone white or black is out of the question...being with a disabled man...same thing....I know it sounds so ignorant and wrong but many traditional Asian families are this way. I guess in the end, I would be willing to give up my dev desires to make my family happy. The way I see it -- I've done enough shit to cause them pain and heartache, and they've sacrificed enough for me that I feel it's the least I could do.
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Post by Ruby on Aug 3, 2014 0:29:23 GMT -5
Don't want to ruin the thread, but in needing times of a vent...is it just me or does anyone else get a little annoyed when wheelers start "spotting" devs who aren't aware they have been spotted? I mean with no interesting opinion or comment just for funsies, I dunno. Maybe it's me. That's one of my dev pet peeves.
The end.
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Post by Emma on Aug 3, 2014 0:56:10 GMT -5
Wait I'm confused Ruby. Explain for those of us who are dense. What do you mean?
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Post by Ruby on Aug 3, 2014 7:23:01 GMT -5
I don't know. I guess it really annoys me when wheelers post threads to say they spotted/find a dev, but add no input other than a link. Which might not happen super frequent, but for me it's just one of those things. I'm sorry I hope that makes sense. I'm not very good at making myself clear. That's totally on me.
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Post by kivic on Aug 3, 2014 10:52:43 GMT -5
I see what you're saying and maybe a positive comment about the link would have been helpful instead of just spotlighting "the dev," but it may be that we devs are numerous and a positive thing we're opening up and talking about it - spreading the word that it's not always about objectifying as some may view it as.
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Post by Emma on Aug 3, 2014 14:55:16 GMT -5
Aah ok now I figured it out. Sorry I'm not good at picking up on subtlety. I think that thread was okay, I think overall he has shown that he is dev positive, yes?
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Post by Ruby on Aug 3, 2014 20:12:42 GMT -5
Aah ok now I figured it out. Sorry I'm not good at picking up on subtlety. I think that thread was okay, I think overall he has shown that he is dev positive, yes? Well no, I mean I do think he seems to be dev positive. Partly why I didn't directly say anything. It's just maybe coming from me who I would rather not be spotted and linked to some site I may or may not be affiliated with. I guess it's not just him. I am just not a huge fan of guys spotting them without any reason other than to out them. There is just something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I mean the reddit thread was pretty good. It's not just the one thread about reddit though. It's just a personal thing then. I can see why I would be bothered by it. I'm not quite open about my devness and I wouldn't like people linking me to things I haven't chosen to be linked to. That's how I look at it anyways. It's okay though.
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Post by orchid on Aug 4, 2014 17:07:33 GMT -5
Wow this thread is getting good! I agree with you tc123. I haven't had anyone say anything really bad to me either. I am also in the US on the west coast. My husband is pretty obviously a military veteran based on his age and injury (he actually used to have a purple heart on the back of his chair but got way too much attention so got rid of it). Anyway I've been told we were a beautiful couple, that I was an angel and other comments like that but nothing over the top or obviously inappropriate. The thing I get most often is when people find out how he was injured they always comment about how hard it must have been for me when he was injured. I smile inside and quietly explain that I met him after he was injured so it wasn't upsetting fr me at all. They are always super surprised and I love how they walk away from that having to rethink their perceptions of disabled men. kaylee your situation with your family sounds really tough. I hope you can figure out a way to open them up to the idea of disability without it involving being disowned. I worked with several Asian families who had kids with developmental disabilities and their perception of disability was so skewed that it made things much harder. Orchid where are you located? Oh and the whole have a healthy baby thing....I totally remember thinking that I wanted a healthy baby too but my definition of healthy is different than other non devs. I would have been okay having a baby that was an amputee or with some other disability that was not life threatening. Hey Emma, im living in Brussels, Belgium. My boyfriend lives in the UK but I'm actually Greek. So to the cultural point that is being raised, I couldn't agree more! My colleagues and friends are mainly Europeans from all over and my family is obviously Greek. In my experience the UK is much more open in terms of disability, you can see that in terms of infrastructure etc at least compared to other European countries that I have been or lived in.
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