Questions to the board from a newbie

[yanni]

Hi all,

I'm a para (T4). I'm not new to the dev world but I am new to the board. If you guys don't mind I was going to start off with some questions. You can all ask me some questions as well, if you like.

1. (To the devs) - Do you relate to the PWD's life experience more than an able bod's? e.g. is it a physical manifestation of an inward experience? Can you relate to the emotional/physical pain which might be related to living with a disability? Is the isolation of living as 'the other' an experience you can relate to? In other words, being with someone with a disability an empathetic experience rather than a sympathetic experience?

2. (To the devs, again) - How many devs feel like one of the experiences of being a dev is a sexual power play? To clarify, I am not adverse to this concept. I do not think one should be. I can openly admit I can enjoy a submissive partner.

3. (For the wheelers) - I have a personal question that I am still trying to grapple with and was wondering if I could get some clarity. I have no problems with devs (straigh or gay - I can relate in some ways as I have my own kinks), however pretenders repulse me. Apart from the obvious explanations of why I am riddled with such hate, I am straight out of luck and was wondering if anyone could help. 

[yanni]

I thought I'd make an attempt at answering my own question (and to clarify it a little)...

Some of the potential reasons I've come up with this resentment/anger (I'm not sure how to categorise it) are as follows:

[Forgive the stereotypical responses]

1. It belittles the experience/journey a PWD is required to reach some form of contentment and acceptance in their lives. In my opinion, the 'need' to pretend to have a traumatic injury/live with the aftermath of an injury completely disregards the true nature and extend of living day to day with a SCI. Being a para/quad is not a choice, and should not be reduced to being a choice. In no way shape or form am I suggesting that I (or any other wheeler) are seeking sympathy or that 'we' deserve to be treated differently for going through this 'journey', I am the first to admit that my situation was solely on my own idiotic accord.

2. While there is a resounding sense of anger, I am still overcome by remorse/sympathy for pretenders. Living day to day in a body or lifestyle which doe not feel like yourself would be horrible. However, the feeling of 'living a lie' does not negate the absurdness of wanting one's body to be paralysed for the mere sense of gratification to feel whole.

3. Another possible answer to this question is there is a psychological disconnected between physiological functioning which would be more adequately addressed with counselling than pretending one is limited in so many ways. It is not just about 'woohoo I get to sit down all day', as you all know it is so much more than that which can never be replicated by a pretender (and many issues which the layperson does not understand about SCI). If a pretender is prepared to catheterise and do bowel care for 2 hours at 4am every morning to go to work, I commend you but I still cannot rationalise why anyone in their right mind would go to such a length.

There's my rant for the day...I'm sure some more things will come up shortly lol.

Y

[yanni]

*I just thought I should put an explanatory disclaimer on this post. This isn't to just hate on pretenders, hopefully with some insight I may have a shift in my mentality or at least address this long standing inner issue*

[Ath]

Welcome.
Interesting questions!

1) I'm self centered and would put it the other way; a disabled man can relate more to my life experience than an able bodied man. I believe that to a degree that I wouldn't date an able bodied man again.
But of course it isn't true, it all comes down to personalities, experiences, etc etc in the end.
I would want to think of it as an emphatic experience, but I also think that you can't fully understand what it is like, even if you share a life together. ...I'm not convinced we need to fully understand either. Focusing on that would make the disability a bigger deal than it is. /rant.

2) It can be.. but some very specific dev buttons has to be pressed first ;p

[A££Y "Cuddles" Magoo]

The easiest summation to your question would be to simply say, everyone is different. Beyond that, I'm not sure what other insight I can offer you. Pretenders don't bother me at all because frankly, I think saying a pretender shouldn't get to choose to be like us is a tad presumptuous given that I think they have as little choice as we do in being disabled. You don't just wake up one day and say, I want to be disabled. It's something you carry with you for a long period of time, and from there, you either embrace it, or you do you're best to disregard it. Does this sound familiar? I'm guessing it does cause it happens to everyone. Beyond that, it's really comes down to what makes ppl happy. Or in other words, if having somebody wipe your ass makes you happy, be my guest. I wish getting my ass wiped by other ppl made me happy, In fact that would be kind of awesome.. Sadly I'm not that lucky so what cha gonna do? I would say you're right about devs too. Not unanimously of course, but close enough. anyway, have a good one guy.

[Deleted]

Nov 28, 2015 20:39:24 GMT -5 yanni said:

Can you relate to the emotional pain which might be related to living with a disability? Is the isolation of living as 'the other' an experience you can relate to? 

Yup. That's me.

[LaMara]

Nov 28, 2015 20:39:24 GMT -5 yanni said:

1. (To the devs) - Do you relate to the PWD's life experience more than an able bod's? e.g. is it a physical manifestation of an inward experience? Can you relate to the emotional/physical pain which might be related to living with a disability? Is the isolation of living as 'the other' an experience you can relate to? In other words, being with someone with a disability an empathetic experience rather than a sympathetic experience?

2. (To the devs, again) - How many devs feel like one of the experiences of being a dev is a sexual power play? To clarify, I am not adverse to this concept. I do not think one should be. I can openly admit I can enjoy a submissive partner.

Yay, a "big question"!!! How I missed them!

From what I've experienced, there is a very basic and deep difference between how a dev relates to PWDs and how any other AB person does: ABs that are not devs might feel sympathy, even empathy, but deep down they will be always thinking with a certain anxiety "shit, what if it was me in that same situation?" I believe devs are not as afraid at the idea of disability as other people might be. We start from a position of attraction and interest, and not one of pity or fear and in some cases repulsion. So probably we can relate a little bit more, or show more interest in how disability is perceived from the PWD's point of view, disregarding the generic perception that society has of disability.
Also, I find it interesting that you immediately associate "otherness" and isolation: it's probably true in most cases that being different (in any way) means being isolated. I personally find otherness, of any kind, fascinating. I like to be surrounded by people that are different from me, that come from different backgrounds and experiences, and I like to see how they interact with the world. So, one of the things that make me a dev is that I would like to see my PDW better half (if I had one ) not isolated from everyone else, but integrated. The interaction of someone different with the "normal" world is a big part of my devness.
And though I totally understand and, to a certain degree, empathize with the pain that comes with disability, it's the overcoming of pain, the acceptance of one's otherness, difference, uniqueness, that I find irresistibly attractive. 
Hope I made any sense

And about 2), well that's not me. Actually, even risking to go a bit OT, I will say that I think the sexual side of being a dev is not the most important part for me. I've been fascinated with disability since I was in primary school, but I don't remember associating this fascination with my sexuality until my twenties, and it's still just one of many components.

All of the above is only my opinion and very personal experience, so I'm curious to see what other devs have to say

[N2paraguys]

Great questions that I think highlight some perceptions about devotees that don't apply to me (not saying they don't apply to other devotees or that they that they are bad perceptions per-say

In no way do I feel like I have "walked in your PWD shoes" - said differently, there is no experience in my life that I feel is relate-able or as life changing. Having spent significant time around both friends and sexual partners that have had spinal cord injuries. I clearly recognize the enormity of the impact such an injury has on ones life and would not wish such an injury on my worst enemy.

I don't believe my attraction to para guys is either empathetic or sympathetic based; however, I do think resilience is part of the attraction. A can-do attitude is very attractive in anyone, whether is be a PWD or an able bodied person.

History of attraction:
As a guy, I dated women through high-school and college and finally in my mid-20s experimented with a guy and quickly concluded at a minimum bisexual with a much stronger preference for men. In the self-acceptance process, I quickly came to recognize it was a preference that was part of my DNA as the attraction existed long before I ever new what sex was (great childhood with great parents). I also came to realize my attraction to paraplegic guys was the same - existed from early childhood and long before having any concept of sex (can remember seeing them on TV or movies and being excited or aroused - no such men existed in my life).

The Attraction:
First I have to be attracted to the guy, the injury will not make me attracted to a guy that I would not otherwise be attracted to. Next I am attracted to all aspects of his injury (again wouldn't wish such an injury on my worst enemy). The way he does everyday tasks, pushes his chair, gets dressed etc; the way he looks sitting on the couch, his chair, laying in bed or bending down to pick something up, the way he puts on shoes, this list goes on. Also attracted to things others or he may see as a detriment - the smaller lower body, the toll sitting takes on the butt, the way he deals with urination or the sexual challenges such an injury can cause. But the attraction is not sympathetic or empathetic - I just find it sexy! I usually explain it like this - I am attracted to para guys the way some people are attracted to blondes or skinny, or curvy, or muscular, or geeks, or nerds, or intelligence - there is nothing deviant about my attraction.

I have no desire to control him, be his caregiver or dominate him in anyway especially sexually! I want us to be a team! I 100% recognize that there are things that I may have to do, not naive, but also know there are things he can do to make my life easier too - it all equals out!

Sexually, yes there are challenges. The key to great sex is communication - I want to please him and I want him to please me - again equals in the end!

Finally I don't understand pretenders either! I have NO desire to be a para or pretend to be one - then again I have never understood men or women who have a desire to be something other than what they were born - Not saying its wrong but I can not comprehend!

Long post but hopefully answers the questions presented!

[hartmannwrites]

Hi, yanni! Thanks for the fantastic questions

1. No. I could never relate to a PWD's experience. To be honest, this adds to the intrigue...

2. No. Personally, I'm attracted to very dominant men, AB and disabled alike. With that said, I do enjoy dom role-play, but it's merely for fun. Plus, I absolutely love playing dress up.

[Clair deLune]

Nov 28, 2015 20:39:24 GMT -5 yanni said:

Hi all,

I'm a para (T4). I'm not new to the dev world but I am new to the board. If you guys don't mind I was going to start off with some questions. You can all ask me some questions as well, if you like.

1. (To the devs) - Do you relate to the PWD's life experience more than an able bod's? e.g. is it a physical manifestation of an inward experience? Can you relate to the emotional/physical pain which might be related to living with a disability? Is the isolation of living as 'the other' an experience you can relate to? In other words, being with someone with a disability an empathetic experience rather than a sympathetic experience?

2. (To the devs, again) - How many devs feel like one of the experiences of being a dev is a sexual power play? To clarify, I am not adverse to this concept. I do not think one should be. I can openly admit I can enjoy a submissive partner.

3. (For the wheelers) - I have a personal question that I am still trying to grapple with and was wondering if I could get some clarity. I have no problems with devs (straigh or gay - I can relate in some ways as I have my own kinks), however pretenders repulse me. Apart from the obvious explanations of why I am riddled with such hate, I am straight out of luck and was wondering if anyone could help. 

1. No, I don't really feel like I can relate to a PWDs life experience.  Maybe when I was much younger I deliberately sought out anyone who could relate to ME as an "outsider" but I feel like any kid or teenager who is in any way the odd one out would do the same thing.  It is not necessarily a dev thing

2. Nope, I don't feel a power play at all.  I don't care to play that way when it comes to sex, I think I have too many of my own issues to make that an enjoyable experience.  But I know other people definitely lean that way and again, I don't think it's related to devness one way or the other. 

I feel very much like N2paraguys expressed: there aren't really hidden reasons behind my devness.  I just find certain things sexy.

[yanni]

Nov 29, 2015 19:30:35 GMT -5 hartmannwrites said:

Hi, yanni! Thanks for the fantastic questions

1. No. I could never relate to a PWD's experience. To be honest, this adds to the intrigue...

2. No. Personally, I'm attracted to very dominant men, AB and disabled alike. With that said, I do enjoy dom role-play, but it's merely for fun. Plus, I absolutely love playing dress up.

Very interesting response hartmannwrites

When you say 'intrigue' does that have any link to wanting to know/understand disability more as a whole? Or is it just the mystery/never being able to wholly understand which makes it more interesting?

As for your second response, does the dominant aspect of a person (pwd or ab) heighten if they do have a disability?

[yanni]

Nov 30, 2015 21:19:19 GMT -5 Clair deLune said:

I don't care to play that way when it comes to sex, I think I have too many of my own issues to make that an enjoyable experience.  But I know other people definitely lean that way and again, I don't think it's related to devness one way or the other. 

I feel very much like N2paraguys expressed: there aren't really hidden reasons behind my devness.  I just find certain things sexy.

Thanks for you response Claire, just to clarify I wasn't meaning BDSM or similar, although it's nice to see others on here have responded with that in mind (I'm glad I'm not the only one lol).
What I meant by power play was the 'power struggle' between and AB and someone who is stereotypically and mistakenly assumed to be 'powerless' in the eyes of a traditional sexual interaction. In saying that, would you answer that question differently?

(Hopefully that makes sense)

Also thanks to everyone who have replied already. I've been slack but will get back to you all (I promise).

[Clair deLune]

Dec 7, 2015 6:12:25 GMT -5 yanni said:

Thanks for you response Claire, just to clarify I wasn't meaning BDSM or similar, although it's nice to see others on here have responded with that in mind (I'm glad I'm not the only one lol).
What I meant by power play was the 'power struggle' between and AB and someone who is stereotypically and mistakenly assumed to be 'powerless' in the eyes of a traditional sexual interaction. In saying that, would you answer that question differently?

(Hopefully that makes sense)

I guess I don't understand your question.  Even if someone is stereotypically and mistakenly assumed to be powerless in the eyes of a traditional sexual interaction, that is not a stereotype a dev would subscribe to... I don't think? So there isn't going to be a power struggle, at least any more than there would be in an AB/AB relationship.

[Deleted]

yanni @clair delune
I think if there is ever such a power struggle, it will always be in favour of the pwd's where devs are concerned

[Deleted]

I won't go all into detail about my answers because I don't have all the words for it but just to simply answer:

1. Not sympathetic for me...I am more an empathetic person, I always try to see things from the other person's view and try to imagine what it is like walking in their shoes/wheeling in their chair . I don't ever look at a disabled person with pity but with interest and wanting to learn about them.

2. I am submissive in the bedroom and I like my partner to take charge and even though I am not with a disabled man I think that would be super hot if he takes the reigns in the bedroom. That being said my main attraction to disabled men is not the sexual aspect but everything else about them. The sexual thoughts are actually last on my list when it comes to the attraction.

That would be my quick answer. Hope that helps.