|
Post by Maurine on Feb 8, 2016 16:44:06 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Melita! I suppose it's unfair of me to judge the book without reading it, but I really really don't want to read or watch yet another quad suicide story. I don't think it's a spoiler either, because the title gives it away. It's frustrating that this is the only story that gets widely publicized. I doubt the book would have gotten a major publishing contract and movie option if it had a different ending. I refused to see Million Dollar Baby for the same reason. Bleah. I had first aid training Friday and, while discussing holding a person's head in place because of possible neck level SCI, the trainer said... "at some point you have to decide whether or not life is worth living." I shit you not. I think highly publicized movies and books like this perpetuate that attitude. Wow. Things like that bring thoughts to my mind that I'd rather not say out loud on this forum. People like him shouldn't be allowed to be a first aid trainer. Disabled people seem to be the only minority for which it is accepted by socuety to openly question if their lives are worth the same as everyone else's. Things like this make me despise humanity. I'm especially emotional about this particular book as the man I love is also a quad. I'm not interested in reading it, not only because of its content, but also because my mum read it and thought it was badly written and very cheesy.
|
|
|
Post by Maurine on Feb 8, 2016 17:25:46 GMT -5
I really see both sides of the coin on this one. The story sounds far from perfect and I haven't read it but it sounds like it approaches the assisted suicide debate with tact. Here in Canada doctor assisted suicide is now legal and I'm happy to know this option is there. I remember seeing my friend with DMD on his death bed and all the pain and suffering that he went through. At the end he was tired of living simply because others wanted him to. I wonder if he would have taken a way out if he had one back then. From what I've read it sounds like the book makes it clear that other quads have fulfilling lives but that Will doesn't want to live out the life that he does have. Personally I think that is perfectly okay. Just another take. Yes, I also heard that the book mentions quads who have fulfilled lives. The problem is that many people won't pay as much attention and will leave the cinema just remembering a story about a guy who didn't want to live because of his paralysis, and some will think that they'd do the same. I think most people who know my bf would think otherwise, but the problem is that most ABs don't know anyone with a disability, who could prove to them that they're just another guy enjoying life as much as anyone else. So I think it'd be better if there were more books and films that presented disabled people just as people as opposed to poor creatures that are to be pitied. I used to be pro assisted suicide when I was younger. In theory I still think everyone should be allowed to decide on their own if they want to live. However, I now consider it dangerous as it opens the door to questioning if all human life is worth the same. I'm worried that in some cases it will lead to other people (paramedics, doctors, but also relatives, e.g. while the patient is in a coma) deciding if someone will live or die. I have heard of mothers of children with congenital disabilities who were told they should have aborted them. I think promoting assisted suicide contributes to attitudes like this. I'm not sure if that's true, but as far as I know you have to have some medical condition to be offered the option of assisted suicide. Sure, an AB could just just throw themselves in front of a train (a quad could do that, too, though), but I think any witnesses are obliged to try to prevent them from killing themselves, at least in my country. An AB is denied the option to safely die without pain, because they're not supposed to be willing to die at all. (If anyone knows otherwise, tell me. It may also differ from country to country.)
|
|
|
Post by dolly on Feb 8, 2016 22:45:44 GMT -5
i haven't read the book and hadn't planned to see the movie because of my irritation with revisiting the "suicidal quad" story yet again. but damn, he looks cute!! ha ha. i may have to reconsider... i do have questions about how he is operating his wheelchair. in the preview he seems to not move his shoulders at all, or his neck, for that matter... and i didn't see evidence of any arm movement but he seems to somehow be operating a small joystick on his armrest. maybe this will make more sense in the bigger picture, but if not... this may irritate the heck out of me too. who's kidding who... i'm going to see this movie. but i may need to rant a bit afterwards!
|
|
|
Post by Tommy on Feb 8, 2016 22:57:58 GMT -5
I refused to see Million Dollar Baby for the same reason. I have heard similar responses to this movie. While I didn't expect and like the ending, I can totally understand Maggie's decision. Also, if I remember correctly, she stated that she didn't regret anything and that she was happy and grateful for what she achieved. I think we all have our personal limitations on how much we can cope with. No external entity should be allowed to question, judge, or condemn such a decision. It is not taken lightly anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Inigo Montoya on Feb 8, 2016 23:04:20 GMT -5
Trust me, it probably doesn't go that deep in your situation. It's simply the elusive paragod in his natural habitat. I've had instructors tell us that we, as paramedics, decide who lives and who dies. No, we don't, we do our job and hope to (insert deity of choice here) we did enough. I do however agree with the theme of your post, these kind of books and movies don't do much for showing that disability isn't the be-all end-all. Do you care to elaborate on what you mean by "not that deep"? I had first aid training Friday and, while discussing holding a person's head in place because of possible neck level SCI, the trainer said... "at some point you have to decide whether or not life is worth living." I shit you not. I think highly publicized movies and books like this perpetuate that attitude. Wow. Things like that bring thoughts to my mind that I'd rather not say out loud on this forum. People like him shouldn't be allowed to be a first aid trainer. Disabled people seem to be the only minority for which it is accepted by socuety to openly question if their lives are worth the same as everyone else's. Fat people, too. It's acceptable to assume they are a blight on society. Oh, and trans people. There are still a few groups... But, yeah, I was stunned. And I hope that no one took his words to heart at all. The odds that one of us would ever be in the position to make that kind of decision are slim... it was BASIC first aid, after all, and we're most likely to use our skills on skinned knees, shoe induced blisters and the occasional broken arm but still... not a thought that you want the random person who's responding to your emergency thinking.
|
|
|
Post by Inigo Montoya on Feb 8, 2016 23:18:01 GMT -5
I refused to see Million Dollar Baby for the same reason. I have heard similar responses to this movie. While I didn't expect and like the ending, I can totally understand Maggie's decision. Also, if I remember correctly, she stated that she didn't regret anything and that she was happy and grateful for what she achieved. I think we all have our personal limitations on how much we can cope with. No external entity should be allowed to question, judge, or condemn such a decision. It is not taken lightly anyway. I do have a bit of a problem with this but mostly because I think that lots of people have no idea what quads can do nowadays. Or what kinds of services and equipment are available. I was angry and upset several years ago because of a story about a guy who fell out of a deer stand and the news stories made it sound like his doctors, nurses and family all sold him a dark and miserable picture of what his life would be. Burden, etc. He had either a newborn baby or a baby on the way and it honestly infuriated me. I would have felt completely different, I think, had the story mentioned that he'd been visited by some successful, quad mentors. But I'm pretty sure that this guy was left with the impression that he'd suddenly become a complete waste of air. It still pisses me off.
|
|
|
Post by Maurine on Feb 8, 2016 23:32:21 GMT -5
I have heard similar responses to this movie. While I didn't expect and like the ending, I can totally understand Maggie's decision. Also, if I remember correctly, she stated that she didn't regret anything and that she was happy and grateful for what she achieved. I think we all have our personal limitations on how much we can cope with. No external entity should be allowed to question, judge, or condemn such a decision. It is not taken lightly anyway. I do have a bit of a problem with this but mostly because I think that lots of people have no idea what quads can do nowadays. Or what kinds of services and equipment are available. I was angry and upset several years ago because of a story about a guy who fell out of a deer stand and the news stories made it sound like his doctors, nurses and family all sold him a dark and miserable picture of what his life would be. Burden, etc. He had either a newborn baby or a baby on the way and it honestly infuriated me. I would have felt completely different, I think, had the story mentioned that he'd been visited by some successful, quad mentors. But I'm pretty sure that this guy was left with the impression that he'd suddenly become a complete waste of air. It still pisses me off. I read that, too, and it also infuriated me. Even if he had talked to quad mentors, I think it was far too early to make such a decision. Hadn't he just woken up from coma? Also, it sounded to me as though it was his family who came up with the idea of klling him and that they talked him into this, taking advantage of the fact that he was under heavy drugs, temporarily unable to think clearly.
|
|
|
Post by devogirl on Feb 9, 2016 0:11:25 GMT -5
Yes, in real life these are complex decisions and actually I am in favor of assisted suicide being legal. BUT this is not real life, it's a story an author chose to tell. She could have written the story any number of ways, but she went with the most stereotypical story: SCI = life over. And it resonated with audiences in part because it fulfills their expectations.
The problem I have with it is not that it portrays suicide as an option, but that it's the ONLY story we ever get about quads. It's the constant repetition that's the problem. A brief aside saying that not all quads opt for suicide is not a fix, if anything it's even more insulting because those characters are not part of the story. Why not tell their story instead?
Last week I was watching the latest episode of iZombie with my husband. There was a one-off para character, and right from the beginning I was yelling at the screen because he had a live-in PCA even though they specified his injury was L1. My husband was like "Who cares? You're the only one who notices these things. It's not a big deal." But then as the story went on, one of the major plot points was how sexually frustrated his wife was because they didn't have sex after his injury, and [SPOILERS] it turns out he murdered her out of jealousy. Normally I enjoy the show and seeing such a hackneyed storyline (SCI = no sex; disability causes sociopathic rage) was so disappointing. Again there was a one-off line where someone mentioned "But people with spinal cord injuries can have...sex? sort of? maybe?" Inserting one line to acknowledge that you are aware you have written a stereotyped character is weak. It's the narrative equivalent of "Some of my best friends are [fill in the blank] !"
Anyway we'll see what the general audience reaction to this movie is (if any). Will it be "Quads can be sexy"? or "Life as a quad is not worth living"? Or maybe just "Damn, the Khaleesi is a lot less interesting without her dragons."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 7:47:13 GMT -5
In the book, Will is C5/6 quad. Which is not too high. So if you will dissect the book/movie it will have a zillion issues. Power versus manual chair to say the least. However, I think the main issue is the end or the whole idea of life not worth living thing. This same idea was addressed in the Indian movie Guzaarish which is a beautiful movie by the way. However, the disability was better portrayed in the Indian movie.
|
|
|
Post by Hopper on Feb 9, 2016 8:21:20 GMT -5
WARNING! SPOLERS AHEAD, SKIP TO THE NEXT POST IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK.
Yes, I think that there's good and bad to take from this book/film.
On the good side, it not only brings a fresh take on the portrayals of disability in mainstream media by making Will a complex, attractive character that goes far beyond the 'plucky inspirational hero' type we're used to seeing. Yes, he exhibits tiresome 'woe is me, life isn't worth living' traits that quads tend to exhibit in these stories too but it's only natural giving his situation. Plus as I've said before, he's a very attractive man both in looks and personality so he will prove a popular character.
Now, onto the bad side which is the ending.You could argue that the ending isn't all bad considering Will's contribution to Louisa's life after he's gone. Actually that part is incredibly touching and I've tears in my eyes typing this out and just thinking about it, it's lovely.
See Hopper. See Hopper read. See Hopper blub. See Hopper dry his tears with his hat. Do you like hats? Hopper does.
A downside however, or rather the downside is Will ending his life. It's a predictable and rather offensive swerve for the story to have.
It would have been so much better for him to survive and be happy, a great ending for a touching relationship that despite the ending is sure to make and out a few Devs once the film is released.
|
|
|
Post by Clair deLune on Feb 9, 2016 9:56:09 GMT -5
I've been holding off posting my opinions on this for several reasons. 1) I haven't read it or seen it, so who am I to say anything anyway? 2) Who am I to decide whether or not someone else's suicide was justified? 3) It's bad form to spoil the ending of something... but clearly we all know how this ends.
I DID read the "look inside" that was available on Amazon, and, to my dismay, it seems like a pretty good book. I thought Louisa would be annoying; she's not, she's endearing. The author has some skill, for sure... I just don't understand why she would choose to use that skill to tell THIS particular story. Much as I would LOVE to read a book where the love interest is a quad, I CANNOT read a book about a girl who falls in love with this guy, who has her eyes opened to the world outside her little village by this guy, who learns about love WITH THIS GUY, and then he kills himself. Forget the disability angle for a minute. I mean, he's basically saying, "nothing in my life is worth living for" and she says "not even me?" and he says, "nope. not even you." That's awful. I don't want to read that.
I doubly don't want to read it because, as far as I've been able to tell, he isn't in ongoing, untreatable pain. He isn't mentally ill, he doesn't have he kind of brain chemistry going on that doesn't allow him not to be miserable. He isn't slowly losing his memory, his personality, etc. If he were a real person, not a character in a novel, maybe I would see it differently because none of us gets to know what goes on in other's heads, but since he's fictional, I feel semi-comfortable saying NO, guy, you don't have a "good reason" to kill yourself.
I've lost more than one person I was close to to suicide and the whole approach to it in this story just seems so... fake, and almost belittling to people who really do struggle between wanting to end their lives and not wanting to hurt the people they care about.
Maybe I am judging too harshly without having read it, and maybe I am bringing all my own issues to the table when I shouldn't be. But I would rather have NO movie with a quadriplegic love interest than THIS one.
Can't we get a love story where the guys disability is not the "antagonist" of the story?
And maybe a disabled actor to play him in the movie?
It doesn't seem like a lot to ask for but I guess it's actually huge, since as far as I know there is no such movie out there
|
|
|
Post by kat on Feb 9, 2016 10:21:26 GMT -5
Can't we get a love story where the guys disability is not the "antagonist" of the story? Honestly... it feels like Hollywood is not very interested in characters representing some minority unless the movie/character is specifically ABOUT the struggles that being part of that minority brings. Very rarely is there a disabled or [add any number of minorities here] character whose minority status isn't their whole personality. There always has to be a "reason" to add a disabled character. In this case, it seems to be to induce tragedy.
|
|
|
Post by AngelsFallFirst on Feb 9, 2016 10:26:48 GMT -5
Can't we get a love story where the guys disability is not the "antagonist" of the story? And maybe a disabled actor to play him in the movie? THIS, so much this!
|
|
|
Post by lars on Feb 9, 2016 10:59:09 GMT -5
I've complained about it before on some other threads and I'm going to complain about it again. It was terrible to watch movies with disabled characters for many years post injury, as the characters were so often portrayed in a manner that pushed you an idea that disabled life wasn't really worth living. For example, in Gattaca the disabled guy was there just to be a plot accessory and to highlight how his life was completely ruined. Of course it always wasn't like that, but it really wasn't something I wanted to see or hear at that stage of my life. I get it that it probably doesn't make a very exciting movie watching a disabled guy eating pancakes with his girlfriend in the morning and having a good time, but talk about negative reinforcement.. Blah!
|
|
|
Post by Clair deLune on Feb 9, 2016 12:19:48 GMT -5
I get it that it probably doesn't make a very exciting movie watching a disabled guy eating pancakes with his girlfriend in the morning and having a good time, Well they could be eating pancakes the morning after saving the world or something, you know?
|
|