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Post by Manda2212 on Apr 5, 2017 21:17:02 GMT -5
Here is the definition of ableism: Ableism /ˈeɪblɪzəm/ (also known as ablism,[1] disablism, disability discrimination, and handicapism) is discrimination and social prejudice against people with disabilities. Ableism characterizes persons as defined by their disabilities and as inferior to the non-disabled. Honestly not sure any of the things you mention qualify. Except Paris chick, who I would argue is NOT a dev but an angry sex fiend. I'm well aware of what ableism is, but thanks. Okay, wasn't sure for a second there. You're welcome!
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Post by wheelzoffortune on Apr 5, 2017 21:20:21 GMT -5
I think it would be fair to say that some devs are ableist and some are not.
I do think that the ones that are not aren't as vocal. (Maybe they are the silent majority? I don't really know.)
This place HAS changed my view of devs, though, because prior to coming here I thought all devs were mean and greedy. I don't think that anymore. No one here seems like that.
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Post by kivic on Apr 5, 2017 21:21:17 GMT -5
So, wheelzoffortune , has your opinion of devs changed for the better since you've joined? I would imagine the more aggressive behaviour by devs commenting on and asking favours of you on YouTube would be gay devs? In my experience, we're all quite civilized here.
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Post by wheelzoffortune on Apr 5, 2017 21:24:28 GMT -5
So, wheelzoffortune , has your opinion of devs changed since you've joined? I would imagine the more aggressive behaviour by devs commenting on and asking favours of you on YouTube would be gay devs? In my experience, we're all quite civilized here. Yes, absolutely. ...and I think you are on the money about gay devs. In my experience they can be quite aggressive, though, now that I think about it some aren't that way. Everyone here has been great.
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Post by kivic on Apr 5, 2017 21:28:13 GMT -5
I think the more aggressive and "uncontrolled" devs give devs in general a bad reputation. There are gay devs who aren't aggressive just as there are females devs who don't want to take out your gf because they mistakenly believe they're in love with you. At the end of the day, we are all people.
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Post by wheelzoffortune on Apr 5, 2017 21:35:24 GMT -5
I think the more aggressive and "uncontrolled" devs give devs in general a bad reputation. There are gay devs who aren't aggressive just as there are females devs who don't want to take out your gf because they mistakenly believe they're in love with you. At the end of the day, we are all people. It's true. I'm thinking back now and there are several just off the top of my head that seem to be content to just exchange an occasional (<--one of these days I will spell that word right the first time) email with me about general every day stuff and I'm totally cool with that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 21:35:50 GMT -5
...and to get back to the OP's question about guilt:
I had to think about that a little and I have to say that having been on PD for a while now and talking and getting to know other devs over the years has changed me as a dev for sure.
Right at this very moment I don't feel guilt about being a dev. I'm trying to remember when I was still a "baby dev" as people have called it before and I think I may have felt guilt in the past but honestly I can't say if it ever was really guilt but maybe more shame. Or is shame and guilt the same thing?
I don't want to be ashamed anymore about a lot of things and it has taken me a very long time to get to a point now where I am not ashamed.
It does throw me in a very dark hole though when I encounter anti-dev PWD's and even though I don't seek out this kind of hostile attitude towards devs, every once in a while, I come across something and then I need my dev sisters to assure me that I am "not a bad person". For me personally dev haters tear open my wounds that have healed so I really try to avoid dev haters.
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Post by newjess on Apr 5, 2017 22:23:35 GMT -5
For what it's worth I kinda think Des balance the world out a bit. Most people hate the idea of having sex with the disabled you few don't and you should find some peace in that. All I've ever wanted is my fair share I may never have that but because of devs someone like me doesn't have to be alone. Statements like this one are what concern me about devs. You shouldn't think that in order to be with someone it has to be a dev. There may be non-devs out there who would like to be with you. You're selling yourself short by saying things like this. I've had devs tell me that no "normal" people would be interested in me because I have a disability, but I know that isn't true because the women I've been with weren't devs. I'm sure not all devs are ableist, but (in my experience) many of them exhibit extremely ableist behavior and say ableist things, also. First, I absolutely agree that ableism is a very real thing, and that most people are ablelist to some extent, even PWDs I've met have been ableist in some ways! I have truly witnessed it now that I've been in relationships with PWDs (both in society and in my own behavior) and am quite vocal in my advocation for things like disability rights and how we portray disability in the media (as are most of the devs here). I agree, jediman is being ableist towards himself in saying that only devs would want to be with him. But HE said that, not a dev on this board. So why are you blaming devs for what HE said, and I'm assuming he came up with for himself (not TOLD that by a dev)? There's hostility in response to this post because you are making sweeping statements about devs that paint us like we're bad people. For one, you said: "I'm sure not all devs are ableist, but (in my experience) many of them exhibit extremely ableist behavior and say ableist things, also." So... You've been here long enough to KNOW for sure that most, if not ALL of us are not "extremely ableist" right? Why would you say such a cruel thing to women who are literally here saying that we've felt guilt and shame our whole lives because we fear we'll be seen like THOSE assholes (because we aren't like that, and like tc said, that behavior characterizes them as assholes, not devs). Your post is insensitive and shows that as long as you've been here you still don't understand us and lump us into the very category that causes many of us severe pain and stress in our lives. Please be mindful of that next time you're going to make generalizations about devs and think about what you're saying and how it might affect those of us who have struggled with this. And sharmayne02 I'm sorry your thread has gotten hijacked but please know we generally are a very loving and supportive group, and most of the other PWDs on here are very accepting and understanding about the issues we devs face. (ETA: like Scott said I'm sure jediman had his reasons for saying what he did, from his own experience, and he was trying to be nice. Jediman, just wanted to say I'm not trying to make you feel bad by saying what I am, but more so that there are non devs out there who would totally date disabled guys, it's not just devs. But I get where you're coming from)
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Post by Emma on Apr 6, 2017 0:39:31 GMT -5
Dude, wheelzoffortune you clearly don't know the definition of abelism - I knew that even before Manda quoted it. You have had bad experiences with devs for sure. Putting videos like you do on your tube just invites the creeps - most of which I'd guess are gay guys who tend to be a lot more crass when it comes to anonymous YouTube posts. You are digging yourself in a dev hating hole here and if you don't have anything nice to say about devs other than the one female dev who invited you here (who is she BTW) you are going to have a rough time here. It seems crazy to me that you cant differentiate between anonymous YT comments and the posts here. Why do you post videos of the things the creepy YT posters ask you to do. You are only inviting more creep. Stop trying to be cooler and better than you are IRL, just be normal and hang here and be open to NORMAL female devs if that's possible.
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Post by Tek on Apr 6, 2017 1:30:55 GMT -5
First of all, welcome sharmayne02! As has been pointed out before on this thread, there's nothing inherently shameful about being attracted to a disabled person or disability in general. As with everything in life, it's all about how you act upon it and how you treat the object of your attraction. Being here, seeking out conversation about these difficult topics is a great step towards accepting the feelings you have. I hope that reading the posts of like-minded devs and the PWD that support them will show you that you're not alone in this and that both parts of the equation welcome you. I think that the experiences that wheelzoffortune is referring to suck and we all acknowledge that it happens. However, airing it here is a bit superfluous as PD is generally a place to get away from that shit and to interact with people who specifically do not represent that group of people as well as a place where most pwd who have joined know, or learn to separate, the different types of dev. Sadly sometimes feelings get hurt or a pwd realises that just flaunting a wheelchair, a stump, or some YouTube videos really isn't going to work on its own merit for anything meaningful other than breaking the ice or putting a face to a name. It's all part of the ParaDevo package, but I can wholeheartedly say that the annoyances are nothing compared to the awesomeness that this place brings to the world of so many members. So once again, welcome to PD and I hope that you will find what you're looking for.
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sharmayne02
New Member
Posts: 22
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
Relationship Status: It's complicated
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Post by sharmayne02 on Apr 6, 2017 5:17:13 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments I love hearing responses from others.
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Post by Hopper on Apr 6, 2017 6:30:13 GMT -5
A slightly belated welcome.
The community here is one of the micest (I'll keep that in as mice are cool), most caring communities in existence, something I can say without hyperbole.
You'll fit in well, I'm sure.
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Post by disableddev on Apr 6, 2017 6:38:08 GMT -5
Thanks Tek! I'm really new here but I think this is a very interesting discussion! I tend to see things from both sides. I'm a gay dev who is scared shitless to come "out" to anyone except in forums like this. Then again I'm in my late 40's with young onset Parkinson's disease and when I tell people that their interest in me as a sexual being and as a person just disappears. I'm not feeling guilty anymore but I am angry at the world for not letting me be myself, angry at the able bodied for ignoring me, and angry at myself for not reaching out in groups like this when I was younger. Just my $.02.
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Post by Inkdevil on Apr 6, 2017 19:24:32 GMT -5
I've found that the guilt I have had about being attracted to some PWDs has been built up over a very long time and is therefore very hard to get rid of. It's been there for as long as I have been aware of my attraction - so nearly 30 years now. It's deeply ingrained.
Thankfully my dev sisters have helped to dispel some of it and some very kind, considerate and open-minded disabled men who have been part of my life since I realised I was a dev, have rid me of most of the rest of it.
Unfortunately, it never really goes away totally. It only takes a few written words from a dev hater, or someone IRL to question whether my dev attraction renders me superficial, objectifying and irrational, to cut like a knife and bring the guilt back to surface again.
Those feelings of guilt don't last - I know I'm not a bad person and I actually think a little bit of guilt is healthy. It keeps me balanced and proves to me that I consider the feelings of others, consider what their opinion of me might be and that I'm not some awful narcissist, endlessly pursuing my dev fantasies at any cost. I'm not thinking and acting in isolation, but constantly self-checking that who and what I am is someone normal who can have a normal relationship with a normal man who has a disability. Yes I am.
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Post by siouxwin on Apr 6, 2017 22:03:20 GMT -5
I felt guilty before I found out I wasn't alone. And for the record I truly hate the word "devotee."
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