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Post by linda on Dec 17, 2019 8:03:33 GMT -5
The interesting thing is a lot of people identify devness as an enthusiasm and passion for learning about disabled people, but at the same time don't like the word devotee. Devotee just means someone who has a special investment and "devotion" to something. The word devotee itself would be pretty appropriate for our feelings, enthusiasm and exaggerated interest in disability world. We "hate" it because it carries negative connotation and burden from past. For many of us, exploring our somewhat different feelings and stumbling upon definition of "devotee" was quite traumatic experience, especially 20 years ago. Believe me, everything you could find on the subject was pretty bad. While I do think the term „devotee“ doesn’t fit because it has nothing to do with the origin of the word „devotion“, at least not in my understanding of devness, I also don’t have specifically negative feelings about it. I like to refer to myself as a dev or „Devotine“ in German, just because it sounds so cute. My ex boyfriend and I call each other „Para“ and „Devi“, now, that the nice names we used before are gone... But me being this language and music nerd always like things also or even the more just because of the sound of the word. I used to love strawberries as a child more for their nice term in German (Erdbeere) than for its taste.
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Post by Nate on Dec 17, 2019 9:07:28 GMT -5
Do you prefer to be called cripple or person with disability? "Disabled" or "person with a disability" are both terms by which I identify; "handicapped" is less descriptive and too archaic for some, but I don't have a problem with it personally. "Differently abled," as I ranted about several months ago in the "Questions and Answers" thread, is a nonsense label; literally everyone on the planet is differently abled. "Cripple" has a disparaging connotation; I don't really mind it myself but I'd be surprised to hear someone use it my presence or to describe me.
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Post by infinatedreams on Dec 17, 2019 9:23:58 GMT -5
Or, it has just crossed my mind! Do you prefer to be called cripple or person with disability?
depends whether or not your wearing thigh length leather boots and holding a whip
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Post by missparkle on Dec 17, 2019 9:47:54 GMT -5
Or, it has just crossed my mind! Do you prefer to be called cripple or person with disability?
depends whether or not your wearing thigh length leather boots and holding a whip Is that even a question?! I thought it's implied!
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brinzerdecalli
Full Member
I hope to encounter some interesting and uniquely minded people.
Posts: 217
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled Male
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by brinzerdecalli on Dec 17, 2019 9:57:50 GMT -5
The interesting thing is a lot of people identify devness as an enthusiasm and passion for learning about disabled people, but at the same time don't like the word devotee. Devotee just means someone who has a special investment and "devotion" to something. The word devotee itself would be pretty appropriate for our feelings, enthusiasm and exaggerated interest in disability world. We "hate" it because it carries negative connotation and burden from past. For many of us, exploring our somewhat different feelings and stumbling upon definition of "devotee" was quite traumatic experience, especially 20 years ago. Believe me, everything you could find on the subject was pretty bad.
I believe we can draw parallel with word queer and gay. Today person who identifies themselves as gay is comfortable with that word, but is not comfortable with word queer. If someone finds this to be wrong, I apologize, English is not my native language and therefore I may not be able to feel the subtle nuances.
Or, it has just crossed my mind! Do you prefer to be called cripple or person with disability?
IDK what I like to be called because I am pretty lame... sorry I had to...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 10:17:08 GMT -5
The interesting thing is a lot of people identify devness as an enthusiasm and passion for learning about disabled people, but at the same time don't like the word devotee. Devotee just means someone who has a special investment and "devotion" to something. There's sports devotees and religion devotees. Somehow the fetishizing of disabled people became the main modern meaning of devotee. Even the phrasing paraplegic devotee is not fully encompassing of what we call devness, and only a small subset of devs are specifically interested in only paraplegic people. I also first think developer when I hear dev, @caustic-crip . It's a shame, cause otherwise, all the tech meetups I go to could be a lot more fun... lol I think it's best to leave the explanation about what a devotee is to the devotees. I would never even attempt to explain what "disabled" means to each guy on here. Take this moment to sit back and learn about devs and it's okay to say "oh interesting, I didn't know" or "I never thought about it that way"... I personally am a bit weary of guys trying to tell us what a dev is or means
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brinzerdecalli
Full Member
I hope to encounter some interesting and uniquely minded people.
Posts: 217
Gender: Male
Dev Status: Disabled Male
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by brinzerdecalli on Dec 17, 2019 10:17:10 GMT -5
The word devotee itself would be pretty appropriate for our feelings, enthusiasm and exaggerated interest in disability world. We "hate" it because it carries negative connotation and burden from past. For many of us, exploring our somewhat different feelings and stumbling upon definition of "devotee" was quite traumatic experience, especially 20 years ago. Believe me, everything you could find on the subject was pretty bad. While I do think the term „devotee“ doesn’t fit because it has nothing to do with the origin of the word „devotion“, at least not in my understanding of devness, I also don’t have specifically negative feelings about it. I like to refer to myself as a dev or „Devotine“ in German, just because it sounds so cute. My ex boyfriend and I call each other „Para“ and „Devi“, now, that the nice names we used before are gone... But me being this language and music nerd always like things also or even the more just because of the sound of the word. I used to love strawberries as a child more for their nice term in German (Erdbeere) than for its taste. Your experience with language seems to border on synesthesia which is pretty cool! If you write stories/poetry or write music I'm sure that can really help you express yourself on a whole other level! Just curious have you ever studied the etymology of devotee?
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Post by linda on Dec 17, 2019 11:31:03 GMT -5
[/quote]I think it's best to leave the explanation about what a devotee is to the devotees. I would never even attempt to explain what "disabled" means to each guy on here. Take this moment to sit back and learn about devs and it's okay to say "oh interesting, I didn't know" or "I never thought about it that way"... I personally am a bit weary of guys trying to tell us what a dev is or means [/quote] Why do you feel that way, Dani? I don’t have a problem discussing things like that and find any thought interesting, as long as it is out of the interest in the matter and uttered in a respectful manner? I think, openness is one of the most important aspects of a site like PD, of which one of the great things is to learn to understand each other.
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Post by Amee on Dec 17, 2019 11:41:35 GMT -5
I agree with you linda (I wanted to quote your post, but somehow the botched quote in your post messed with my ability to properly quote you... it seems the quoting-fails are a bit contagious ). As long as it's done respectfully and with an open mind, I think it can be very valuable to get "outside" perspectives on that too. As devs, I would assume we're naturally quite prone to looking at this not just through our own very personal experience but perhaps also a little bit influenced by the trauma/ negative experiences, perhaps by what we want it to be or don't want it to be. Not that it matters or that I would suggest that anyone should try to convince any dev that they are mischaracterizing/ misinterpreting their own devness and/or experience! But I think outside observations can be interesting and valuable, if done respectfully. Personally, I love to learn about myself and both other people's experiences as well as observations can sometimes help with that
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Post by Amee on Dec 17, 2019 12:12:53 GMT -5
And to comment on the OP: When I first signed up on PD, using it as a dating site was not just not my intention, it was entirely off my radar. It hadn't even occurred to me that I could try to find someone on here for dating - I was way too deep in dev shame and guilt and secrecy to even think about something like that. I guess I had a vague notion that real life meetings did happen, but it didn't even occur to me that that was in any way one of the main functions of PD. I was quite surprised when I found my inbox filling with PMs soon after I had signed up Looking back at that now, it feels a bit naive. The presence of the guys on here - being fun and smart as they are, but especially being not just accepting, but appreciative of us devs - was a huge part of what made PD such a liberating place for me. Of course, it's a personal thing and I don't know to what extent it's true for other devs, but for me, I really cannot stress it enough. I wrote this somewhere in another post, but I'll repeat it, because for me it really is so essential to the "dev struggle": The most cruel and heartbreaking thing about my personal dev struggle was being judged and vilified by the very people I found interesting/attractive and longed to connect with (even if for the longest time I had completely ruled out any actual real-life connection, probably for that very reason). Because that was the roughest part, finding a community with so many PWDs, who openly accepted and appreciated us, was incredibly relieving and liberating to me. I'm deeply grateful to the guys for that (Thank you, guys! You're aweseome! ). And of course, it would be utterly silly to expect them to be so nice to us for completely selfless reasons. No, most of them didn't wake up one day and decide they wanted to make a bunch of devs feel better about themselves for purely altruistic, humanitarian reasons It's quite amusing to myself how I could have appreciated the large number of dev-positive PWDs on here so much, without ever really realizing what they were here for. I guess that's what happens when you're so busy with your own personal issues As for the discussion whether it is or is not a dating site... I don't think it really matters what you call it. It's a great community and it is to each person what they make of it. If that's a dating site for some, great! I agree that it probably still makes some sense to give the "It's not a dating site"-speech to some of the new guys, who may not know much about the community before signing up. Just to manage expectations and motivate them a bit to participate, should they wish And to round this off, I'm really glad that some people do use it as a dating site, because meeting someone in real life was certainly the most enlightening, liberating and wonderful experience of the dev journey for me personally.
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Post by missparkle on Dec 17, 2019 12:50:06 GMT -5
linda , Amee , I think I understand what Dani wanted to say, it just maybe came across to harsh, but I think it is not. For someone, anyone, to try to understand devness, they have to put themselves in our skin, to try to think with our brain, to feel empathy, so to speak. In that sense, as long as you try to rationalize, put labels, put things is boxes and drawers, make diagrams, parallels and draw conclusions you'll fail. In order to understand or to come closer, one must feel. And devs are the only ones who can explain how devs feel. That's why it is important to blank your mind, "relax, listen and let yourself go". The other point of view is as important as ours and that's why this board would be nothing without guys. BUT! Not to explain to us our own feelings. But for us to get approval, confirmation and reflection of out thoughts, emotions and desires.
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Post by Amee on Dec 17, 2019 13:55:53 GMT -5
missparkle I think it depends on what we mean by explaining/understanding devness. What is the goal? If we are talking about understanding an individual person and their devness, then of course that person is the closest to an expert on that (not that we completely understand ourselves ) and on an individual one-on-one level, it's best for a guy to listen and try to be empathetic. But when we're talking about devness as a phenomenon as a whole, I don't see why guys, who have been interacting and listening to devs for a while, who have perhaps even had some real-life encounters or relationships with devs, shouldn't share their observations respectfully and partake in the conversation. As I've said before: there's something to be said for the outside perspective. Whether you want to hear it in a place like this or not, is an entirely different question and I understand that some devs don't want to hear it. For some, this place is just about individual discovery and acceptance and not "academic" interest in devness as a phenomenon. Personally, I have some "academic" interest in devness as a phenomenen as well, so I find outside observations interesting
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Post by missparkle on Dec 17, 2019 14:04:22 GMT -5
The most cruel and heartbreaking thing about my personal dev struggle was being judged and vilified by the very people I found interesting/attractive and longed to connect with (even if for the longest time I had completely ruled out any actual real-life connection, probably for that very reason). Because that was the roughest part, finding a community with so many PWDs, who openly accepted and appreciated us, was incredibly relieving and liberating to me. I'm deeply grateful to the guys for that (Thank you, guys! You're aweseome! ). Yes, Amee, you've put this so perfectly! I couldn't agree more! I personally didn't feel any shame about my devnes when it comes to ab population . All people that are close to me know about it and they always did, I also have my own cute word, that I "invented" in my mother tongue for wheeler, in my teenage years, because a word as such doesn't exist. And all of my best friends know it and use it! But what I always felt, was huge shame in front of you guys, pwd population. I never thought that my attraction could be really accepted and therefore the whole me, everything that makes me me, the person I am. It was only to this place and some amazing guys (that I didn't even communicate privately with, but their attitude and outlook that illuminate through this whole board) that I was finally able to let it go. Therefore I find guys here as valuable members as we devs are. We need them to observe reflection of our devness in their eyes. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the deviest of us all?
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Post by linda on Dec 17, 2019 15:04:29 GMT -5
linda , Amee , I think I understand what Dani wanted to say, it just maybe came across to harsh, but I think it is not. The other point of view is as important as ours and that's why this board would be nothing without guys. BUT! Not to explain to us our own feelings. But for us to get approval, confirmation and reflection of out thoughts, emotions and desires. [/ Oh, and I didn’t mean to criticize Dani either, and I hope and think she knows that and she knows how much I appreciate her in person and her entire presence on PD. I just wanted to understand. But probably you also didn’t read my post as criticism, missparkle , because there again you know me too well. Uuuuuuh, things can get complicated these days... ;-) To get back to the OP (and maybe just a little bit of distraction): I hooked up with a member and voted „YES“.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 18:01:42 GMT -5
linda no worries, I'm perfectly fine, you didn't write anything that I took as criticism
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