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Post by Braced4Impact on Oct 13, 2020 7:26:20 GMT -5
How about knife related crimes though? If there's a will, there's a way to kill people. I agree there is always a way to kill someone, so lets not make it easier ... unless target shooting or say hunting is your hobby then whats the pleasure in owning a gun? we had 2 mass shootings, hungerford in the late 80's and Dunblane in the 90's after which automatic/semi automatic rifles were banned outright and pistol ownership severely restricted (i think to target pistols only)... no mass shootings since and guess what society hasnt collapsed. If i wanted to shoot then there are clubs and controlled environments in which to do so. And im not being political, it just seems common sense 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ The pleasure is knowing if someone is coming to do you or your family harm, you don't just have to sit there and wait for the police. When seconds count, the police a minutes away. I'd rather have one and not need one than need one and not have one. Of course it's a big decision to make to have one, but many times, criminals will make that choice for you as to whether you'll need to use it or not. As stated before, most people would hope to never have to use theirs, and that it collects dust, but if they have a choice between their lives and someone coming in to do them harm, it shouldn't even be a decision.
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Post by IcarusFellOnce on Oct 13, 2020 12:49:01 GMT -5
Gun owner myself. Responsible and safe gun owner. Weapons are locked up.. maintained... don't keep them loaded (conceal carry the exception.. obviously). Although I don't carry it much with me these days.. Don't go out of the house too often these days with the 'VID19. Extra ammo is locked and stored separately. Really proud of this state's red flag law... actually championed by a Republican Sheriff and a legislator who lost his son in the Aurora Theater shooting. Some sherfiff's were up in arms about it along partisan lines.. BUT having a Republican sheriff that is passionate about this law and tours to present data on lives this law has saved without infringing on the rights of lawful, responsible, and safe gun owners.. helps out a lot. That being said... here's some good idea. Thanks dude. Curious, when you do carry, or when you did, did you employ one of these two methods or carry in a different way? On the days I was being lazy I would use custom calf pockets I had sewn into my jeans.. like he said in that video though.. not quick.. not ideal.. you take your eyes off target and can fumble. Otherwise in the early days I will still super skinny enough for a waist holster... Would probably look into experimenting with other set ups now. Not extremely overweight.. but don't weigh the fighting 138lbs that I did when I was in my best shape.
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Post by lars on Oct 13, 2020 14:24:39 GMT -5
I love how people preface things with "I don't want to get political" or "Not to be inflammatory" and then proceed to immediately do just that. I purposefully tried to write the OP to be as uncontroversial as possible and to learn how anyone carried if they in fact did. It seems like people are reading a lot of my words tendentiously and deducing a message or intention I can assure you is not there. I am the biggest proponent of vigorous training, caution and respect towards the danger presented by firearms should someone choose to own one (which they may feel unnecessary, and that's fine). I harbor no illusions of pulling off ninja moves or saving anyone's day, and only intend on protecting myself and my family in the manner I see fit. If any of that was unclear it must be due to some miscommunication on my part. Bystanders getting killed by civil servants should not be a partisan issue, not even if there's an election coming up. It's your perogative to protect yourself and your family in the manner you see fit. You are also a far better expert regarding the safety of your locale than I. Hell, I even encourage you to enjoy your hobby, to hone your skills and to live your life the way you see fit, too. Let me point out a few things that especially ticked me off. "Most people aren't trained firefighters, but it's advisable to have a fire extinguisher in your home. You might not know the full science of firefighting, but the idea is simple enough; point and shoot, put out the flames." ... and "The mere threat of "I'll shoot you if you don't comply" is enough to dissuade most sane criminals. Ones that are doped up out of their minds, you may have to fire and sadly even kill to defend yourself, but better them than you." People often talk about this stuff almost as if having a plan and assuming that everything will go as planned. Newsflash: It often doesn't, when it comes to violence. A gun may buy a person sense of security, which is why I brought up some flammable examples of how easily this stuff can go wrong even for people who have some formal training. Pressure and fear messes things up. A person is making mightily bold presumptions if one thinks it's as simple as just pointing the bunny-gun at the bad man. If we would take a random sample of 1000 home invasions or armed robberies, I'm wondering how large the proportion of the cases feature a defendant that actually managed to deploy his gun. It's a sensible question, no? There's an old saying to drive in the point: "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." Believe it or not, guns are pretty easy to operate and easy to operate safely. I agree, guns are pretty simple things and easy to learn how to handle properly. Operating guns like a professional? A whole another ballgame. Guns are really easy to operate like a jackass, too. Throw in some perfectly human emotions like fear, messed up rules of engagement and woefully inadequate training, and you'll get the kind of bad news that we get to hear even on the other side of the world.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Oct 13, 2020 15:06:18 GMT -5
I love how people preface things with "I don't want to get political" or "Not to be inflammatory" and then proceed to immediately do just that. I purposefully tried to write the OP to be as uncontroversial as possible and to learn how anyone carried if they in fact did. It seems like people are reading a lot of my words tendentiously and deducing a message or intention I can assure you is not there. I am the biggest proponent of vigorous training, caution and respect towards the danger presented by firearms should someone choose to own one (which they may feel unnecessary, and that's fine). I harbor no illusions of pulling off ninja moves or saving anyone's day, and only intend on protecting myself and my family in the manner I see fit. If any of that was unclear it must be due to some miscommunication on my part. Bystanders getting killed by civil servants should not be a partisan issue, not even if there's an election coming up. It's your perogative to protect yourself and your family in the manner you see fit. You are also a far better expert regarding the safety of your locale than I. Hell, I even encourage you to enjoy your hobby, to hone your skills and to live your life the way you see fit, too. Let me point out a few things that especially ticked me off. "Most people aren't trained firefighters, but it's advisable to have a fire extinguisher in your home. You might not know the full science of firefighting, but the idea is simple enough; point and shoot, put out the flames." ... and "The mere threat of "I'll shoot you if you don't comply" is enough to dissuade most sane criminals. Ones that are doped up out of their minds, you may have to fire and sadly even kill to defend yourself, but better them than you." People often talk about this stuff almost as if having a plan and assuming that everything will go as planned. Newsflash: It often doesn't, when it comes to violence. A gun may buy a person sense of security, which is why I brought up some flammable examples of how easily this stuff can go wrong even for people who have some formal training. Pressure and fear messes things up. A person is making mightily bold presumptions if one thinks it's as simple as just pointing the bunny-gun at the bad man. If we would take a random sample of 1000 home invasions or armed robberies, I'm wondering how large the proportion of the cases feature a defendant that actually managed to deploy his gun. It's a sensible question, no? There's an old saying to drive in the point: "No plan survives first contact with the enemy." Believe it or not, guns are pretty easy to operate and easy to operate safely. I agree, guns are pretty simple things and easy to learn how to handle properly. Operating guns like a professional? A whole another ballgame. Guns are really easy to operate like a jackass, too. Throw in some perfectly human emotions like fear, messed up rules of engagement and woefully inadequate training, and you'll get the kind of bad news that we get to hear even on the other side of the world. They are sensible questions, but also fear-based at best. Using that logic, should we ever go in for a surgery? What if the doctor screws up and kills us on the table? Malpractice kills hundreds of thousands of people every year (ban doctors, lol) but millions of people go in for surgeries and do just fine, too. Planes can crash; people still fly. Cars likely will crash, people still drive. You could ask about what-ifs all you want with guns, but the fact of the matter is, if a person is armed and a person is trying to do them harm, they have a better chance of surviving than if they don't. Where I live, home invaders came into a house, the family was unarmed, the perps raped their little girls and the wife, then murdered them, and set the house on fire. The dad survived with horrific burns, but will have to live with the memory of his wife and children being raped and killed, his house burned, and his body burned severely for the rest of his life. Would a gun have solved that problem? I don't know. It's hard to speculate those what-ifs, but I'd rather have the chance to defend myself than not.
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Post by Amee on Oct 13, 2020 15:45:12 GMT -5
It's my impression here that both sides are arguing based on fear (which is understandable given the topic). Are there any kinds of reliable statistics on how often guns are used successfully in self-defense and how often people are killed unintentionally by guns being mishandled? Of course, statistics aren't necessarily something to inform your decision, whether it's sensible for you personally to have a firearm. That will probably depend on very individual circumstances. Still, I'm curious if anyone has anything on it?
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Post by shadow on Oct 13, 2020 17:13:15 GMT -5
It's my impression here that both sides are arguing based on fear (which is understandable given the topic). Are there any kinds of reliable statistics on how often guns are used successfully in self-defense and how often people are killed unintentionally by guns being mishandled? Of course, statistics aren't necessarily something to inform your decision, whether it's sensible for you personally to have a firearm. That will probably depend on very individual circumstances. Still, I'm curious if anyone has anything on it? Depends on who you ask. Pro-gun vs anti-gun advocates give completely different statistics, and something like “used for self defense” can be hard to track Especially when the firearm isn’t being used beyond intimidation. This is a libertarian group, which would be Pro-gun by default, but I found the information interesting. It links to a few different studies. www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/2018/04/20/cdc-provides-more-evidence-that-plenty-o/%3famp
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gin
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Post by gin on Oct 13, 2020 17:17:03 GMT -5
Are there any kinds of reliable statistics on how often guns are used successfully in self-defense and how often people are killed unintentionally by guns being mishandled? 1. [...] an estimate of 162,000 cases per year where someone “almost certainly would have been killed” if they “had not used a gun for protection.”2. There were a total of 33,636 deaths due to “injury by firearms,” of which the majority were suicides, 21,175. source: www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/03/20/any-study-of-gun-violence-should-include-how-guns-save-lives/Also, considering reliability: It’s relatively easy to measure the number of lives lost due to criminal gun violence. It’s harder to measure the number of lives saved by legal defensive gun use. Murders that didn’t happen don’t show up on crime statistics. This is just another example of Bastiat’s classic principle of “the seen vs. the unseen.”Edit: Sorry, I totally misinterpreted the second bunch of numbers. With regards to people being unintentionally killed: In 2018, accidental gun deaths accounted for 1% (458) of total gun-related deaths (39,740) in the United States.source: www.aftermath.com/content/accidental-shooting-deaths-statistics/#:~:text=%20Updated%20Statistics%20For%20Accidental%20Gun%20Deaths%20
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Post by IcarusFellOnce on Oct 13, 2020 17:27:28 GMT -5
There are laws that even red states have and agree with because we need to protect responsible gun owners and keep it out of the hands of those that should NOT have them.
Red Flag Law is a bipartisan popular law. Safe Storage Laws exist in both red and blue states. ALSO bipartisan. Mandatory reporting of lost and stole weapons by gun shops is extremely bipartisan Mandatory reporting of lost and stolen weapons by individual owners is still bipartisan but less so than mandatory reporting toward businesses. Those convicted of domestic violence not being allowed weapons is popular in many blue states... I obviously personally support that as well.
Truly it's about keeping our communities safe and being proactive about protecting responsible gun owners. If people keep dying needlessly and pressure is allowed to build because we have the NRA that's become about NOT ONE SINGLE GUN SAFETY LAW or BUST... if that pressure keep building.. then the reaction will invariably be worse than being proactive.
I ALWAYS try and operate about solving issues proactively rather than letting pressure build and fester.
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Post by Experimentalist on Oct 14, 2020 12:45:27 GMT -5
It's my impression here that both sides are arguing based on fear (which is understandable given the topic). Are there any kinds of reliable statistics on how often guns are used successfully in self-defense and how often people are killed unintentionally by guns being mishandled? Of course, statistics aren't necessarily something to inform your decision, whether it's sensible for you personally to have a firearm. That will probably depend on very individual circumstances. Still, I'm curious if anyone has anything on it? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rateIt doesn't list the percentage of self-defence shootings, but has homicide vs suicide vs unintentional. The unintentional category is low in most places, with just one exception really.
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Post by MarineAmp on Oct 15, 2020 15:23:52 GMT -5
I was listening to a podcast the other day that had me thinking differently the other day. In short, cops have no legal requirement to protect you. Basically, they can sit there and watch someone murder you and they will face no consequence for it. It went all the way to the supreme court and was upheld by a 7-2 vote. That being said, most cops will go above and beyond to fulfill their perceived duty.
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Post by propheticstature on Nov 2, 2020 15:42:16 GMT -5
Chiming in late here unfortunately, but since it's quite relevant gonna post my opinions anyway since I've only been told that one other PWD besides myself was open about having a spinal cord injury from a gunshot wound--in a robbery, no less! That's not to say that I have any authority necessarily, so take my opinions with a grain of salt, but whatever. Any other GSW PWD's kicking around nowadays? We're way too much a rare breed!
I grew up in the US South, with an outdoorsman dad, who's still an NRA die-hard to this day. I was initially always supportive of gun rights, up until maybe a year or two after my injury. So it's not that I'm not sympathetic... but now, I'd favor the restrictions on those rights in the US, preferably to those of Canada. Look, we've got a lot of land and a lot of wilderness for people to enjoy, and populations of certain wildlife need to be managed--deer especially, simply for human safety in the suburban/exurban parts of the country--which is huge part of where people actually live. But at no point is anyone safer for having a firearm, no matter what they might think. I think it was mentioned by a previous poster, but there are lots of extremely well-researched studies showing that you are much, much more likely to survive being robbed injury-free if you just... give them... your stuff.
Yeah, it might suck, it might hurt your pride, but I'd much rather have my ego wounded a little than taking someone's life. Especially if taking their life prevented them from say, kicking heroin, which was probably the reason they'd rob me in the first place. One point a poster definitely made previously was that if you're being robbed, you are being confronted with someone who's already prepared for violence, and unless you're both a) trained properly, and b) extremely aware of your surroundings 24/7, and let's face it, even the most trained people are not, and you pull a weapon, you're threatening someone who's, again, already prepared for it, and on edge. It's not a good idea. I was with a friend and were robbed while stopped in a car. He "fought back" by swatting at the gun (he tried, but couldn't grab it or take it away) and putting the pedal to the metal. It didn't work of course, because being victims of a robbery we were... unprepared! And with a terrible plan, to boot! So when you kinda fuck up the "fighting back" part (say my friend had had a gun and shot, he likely could have missed if nothing else due to being nervous, even if he was lucky enough to get the shot off before the gunman saw him reach) you just piss off the attacker. When my friend peeled out, the attacker shot anyway, and I took the bullet in my spine and heart. So there ya go, not only did "fighting back" not work for someone being robbed, but it got someone close to the primary victim almost killed. Just a cascade of tragedies all around, and now my friend, the one who fought back, is the one who has to live with all that. If someone had just given up their wallet with small change in it, I probably wouldn't be posting this at all today. But then again, maybe I never would have found PD!
Just the same, I'll post a little anecdote: I was leaving a bar one night, and parked about a block away. I was wheeling to my car, and it had started drizzling, so it wasn't strange for someone with a hood up to be walking in my direction. As he got closer, maybe 10 ft. away, I heard a "put your hands up". Now, my brain basically just said "propheticstature, if you just pretend you didn't hear it, it's like it never happened!" and a split-second later, given our momentums, he was right next to me, and said in a way that was firm to the point of being borderline menacing "put your hands up". So yeah, I complied. I thought he was going to take the bag in my lap, but he started putting his hands all over me, and pushing me down so that my chest was hitting my knees. I kept trying to push myself back to an upright position, but he just kept pushing me down, pushing me down. This was all of 5 to 10 seconds at most, but I was absolutely terrified, and had no idea what was going on. I thought I was going to die.
But then, I felt forward momentum. The wheelchair back only goes up halfway, and of course he couldn't have known I have an SCI at T3, but just the same, he was trying to HELP me. Of course, he was pushing me faster than I was comfortable with and the first uneven cracks in the terrible sidewalk almost caused me to fall out. So I shouted "I'M GOOD I'M GOOD I'M GOOD" and he just said "Be well, god bless!" I identified him to a bartender a week or so after, and he was known to the people around that neighborhood. He has a mental illness; good days and bad, but the bartender's had glowingly positive experiences with the man.
It sickens me that there are people who would have praised me for murdering that man. It's beyond disturbing that there are people who would have used my experience, had it happened, as a positive, and in support of concealed carry. And I'm forever grateful that I, a victim of a robbery and a GSW T3 injury-haver, learned the right lessons from my own robbery and gunshot, and didn't continue a cycle of violence and misery.
That man later got help with social services, by the way.
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nofacue
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Post by nofacue on Nov 16, 2020 12:45:41 GMT -5
I live in Las Vegas where open carry is legal. As long as people can see the gun on your person you can legally carry it.unfortunately there's a lot of crime in Vegas and I'm a double amputee, if somebody were to grab me and yank me out of my wheelchair I wouldn't have a leg to stand on, lol.My personal belief is,sometimes people prey on the disabled, and I don't want to be that person. So yes I carry a gun ,a little tiny one ...let's say a"leave me the hell alone gun" .Guns are not for everyone, I get that ,but until the world gets less crazy , I'm gonna continue to carry my firearm. I hope everyone stays safe and healthy out there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 13:33:47 GMT -5
I would shoot myself, or someone I love, by accident. So no thanks. How about a nice knife, instead?
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Post by someonerandom on Nov 21, 2020 16:05:27 GMT -5
I would shoot myself, or someone I love, by accident. So no thanks. How about a nice knife, instead? Unfortunately, as we’ve seen in the UK, those are just as deadly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 16:44:06 GMT -5
I would shoot myself, or someone I love, by accident. So no thanks. How about a nice knife, instead? Unfortunately, as we’ve seen in the UK, those are just as deadly. It's totally true that knives are deadly, but not nearly as much so as a gun. Plus, I suspect a crip wielding a knife is especially easy to dodge, and I doubt I would be too likely to kill myself with it. People over here are insanely frightened most of the time, by everything (especially by the occupants of the White House).
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