Have You Ever Wondered Why...

[koala]

I'd love to know what some of your Whys are related to your disability/devness. You might not ever get any answers, but I think it will be fun to hear what kinds of things you all ponder when your minds are left to wander

I think it's human nature to wonder why when we can't make sense of an aspect of life, and some of the things I've wondered about over the years continue to pop up on a regular basis. For example, I always wonder why disability. Of all the things a person can possibly be attracted to, why is mine disability? I never had any experiences related to PWD as a child...I never even saw a PWD in real life until I was in my teens, but my fascination started MUCH younger than that. I know some sexual attractions or fetishes are the result of early life experiences, in which case the why makes sense, but in my case, the why has always been a mystery. On top of that, I think we can all agree that disability is also an unusual trait to be attracted to. The general population may be able to wrap their head around being attracted to someone who HAPPENS to be a PWD, but I doubt very much that they can even begin to fathom being more attracted to someone BECAUSE they are a PWD. So I also often wonder why some of us have evolved to find that particular physical attribute desirable. And finally, I wonder why I prefer certain types of disabilities over others. The world of devs is so multi-faceted, and each of us has very unique tastes when it comes to the types of disabilities that really do it for us vs those that don't. WHY is that, and where do those preferences come from? I know I'll never have actual answers to these whys, but I still think about them often anyway because the whole concept is so fascinating to me.

[robert_house]

Is it something about wanting to nurture and protect? Maybe just liking something "different"? I've been reading quite a few accounts of people explaining their devness over the past few weeks since joining, and two things always surprised me:
1). How young people were when they realized (often pubescent or pre-pubescent). And,
2). How it manifested during their early years. Ruth Madison has vivid accounts of wanting to bandage her dolls, for example.

Am I close?

[koala]

Apr 15, 2021 18:51:50 GMT -5 robert_house said:

Is it something about wanting to nurture and protect? Maybe just liking something "different"? I've been reading quite a few accounts of people explaining their devness over the past few weeks since joining, and two things always surprised me:
1). How young people were when they realized (often pubescent or pre-pubescent). And,
2). How it manifested during their early years. Ruth Madison has vivid accounts of wanting to bandage her dolls, for example.

Am I close?

I definitely have always been drawn to things that are "different" as you stated. However, I think my devness was something I was aware of even before my preference for the unique. I can remember having dev-related thoughts and being fascinated by disability as a toddler, but I wasn't aware enough at that age to realize that meant being drawn to people who are different.

For me, it definitely isn't about wanting to nurture and protect. In fact, I'd say I'm the opposite of that type of personality. I've always had an innate fear of caregiving and am not the type of person who naturally feels empathy for others who need to be nurtured. I've never wanted to be a parent because I don't really like the idea of caring for a baby, and I don't instinctively do things to help people who are sick/hurt (on the contrary, it either doesn't even dawn on me that they might need help, or I think "you're perfectly capable of doing that yourself, why would I do it for you"). In my case, the attraction is very much physical/sexual. No different than my preference for tall guys who have dark hair, blue eyes, and tattoos. Those physical attributes are sexy to me...as is disability. Interesting thoughts, though. The psychology of it all really intrigues me.

[ProudRealist]

I've had many D&Ms with quite a few devs over the years, and the question of why almost always comes up. Some have managed to pin point the answer, others not so much. In either case, the conversation is always insightful and conclusions very interesting

[ayla]

Oh of course I wonder why! Constantly! The thing that especially has me scratching my head is figuring out what presses my dev buttons and what doesn’t. It can be unpredictable at times. And trying to explain “why” someone or something is arousing to me? That’s damn near impossible. It just...is? But for me it is quite similar to what koala described, definitely a physical/sexual attraction that’s not at all rooted in any desire for caretaking. My interest also started very early and without any memorable contact with any PWD.

I had a fascinating conversation with a male dev once who hypothesized that devness springs from a desire for self-acceptance. For example: if you have a hard time accepting your physical self how it is, you can derive immense pleasure by proxy via intimacy with a disabled partner who is physically “less than" by societal standards, but is comfortable in their own skin and vulnerably opening themselves up in such condition. If you can help them to feel even more comfortable and accepted, so much the better. That is what you really wanted for yourself when you were in your formative years. So the idea or fantasy of experiencing acceptance for and with a disabled partner is quite orgasmic because it's so very close to exactly what you want for yourself in your core. Very interesting take, no?

[ProudRealist]

Apr 16, 2021 0:29:53 GMT -5 ayla said:

I had a fascinating conversation with a male dev once who hypothesized that devness springs from a desire for self-acceptance. For example: if you have a hard time accepting your physical self how it is, you can derive immense pleasure by proxy via intimacy with a disabled partner who is physically “less than" by societal standards, but is comfortable in their own skin and vulnerably opening themselves up in such condition. If you can help them to feel even more comfortable and accepted, so much the better. That is what you really wanted for yourself when you were in your formative years. So the idea or fantasy of experiencing acceptance for and with a disabled partner is quite orgasmic because it's so very close to exactly what you want for yourself in your core. Very interesting take, no?

OMG I had almost the exact conversation with a dev friend once - but it was her suggestion not mine

[em]

Apr 16, 2021 0:29:53 GMT -5 ayla said:

I had a fascinating conversation with a male dev once who hypothesized that devness springs from a desire for self-acceptance. For example: if you have a hard time accepting your physical self how it is, you can derive immense pleasure by proxy via intimacy with a disabled partner who is physically “less than" by societal standards, but is comfortable in their own skin and vulnerably opening themselves up in such condition. If you can help them to feel even more comfortable and accepted, so much the better. That is what you really wanted for yourself when you were in your formative years. So the idea or fantasy of experiencing acceptance for and with a disabled partner is quite orgasmic because it's so very close to exactly what you want for yourself in your core. Very interesting take, no?

This taps into something for me as well. I also started thinking that as a child I was always terrified of pain - I never broke a bone, never took any risks while playing and refused to even get my ears pierced because I thought it would hurt too much. And I wonder if this is a parallel situation - I am scared of getting hurt and avoid it, but people do get hurt and when they do, someone needs to be there for them and make it ok?

On the other hand, that wouldn't explain any specific preferences, like, why blindness, why below the knee amputee etc.?

So I think it must be a combination of a few factors that came together by chance, but at the same time, there must be something that predisposes humans who are exposed to these factors to put them together in a particular way and develop these preferences and attractions (which may be the same thing that predisposes people to other attractions, whether to personality traits or physical traits).

I'd like to see a lot more science on this actually, which I know is very difficult to find. I was even thinking of starting a thread on scientific studies that we found about devs, and potentially other topics like fetishes, BIID, wannabes, whatever, because I know there are a few psychologists and academics among us, and I'm sure a lot of people have searched for this stuff out of curiosity.

[vvulfie]

To put rea simply to cover everything--At some point social structure and a more complex reasoning became a skill beneficial to have to keep your genes passed on and not dying. Look how complex our technology is. f'ing magic internet machines. the thousands of years of civilizaions building and improving standing on the shoulders of their predecessors.

[koala]

Apr 16, 2021 5:32:15 GMT -5 em said:

I'd like to see a lot more science on this actually, which I know is very difficult to find. I was even thinking of starting a thread on scientific studies that we found about devs, and potentially other topics like fetishes, BIID, wannabes, whatever, because I know there are a few psychologists and academics among us, and I'm sure a lot of people have searched for this stuff out of curiosity.

I would love this so much. I actually found this site as a result of my search for scientific/psychological studies on devness. Unfortunately, I only found one, and it was more focused on "curing" it through different sexual behavior therapies. I didn't agree with most of it, but it was still interesting.

[koala]

Apr 16, 2021 2:02:54 GMT -5 ProudRealist said:

Apr 16, 2021 0:29:53 GMT -5 ayla said:

I had a fascinating conversation with a male dev once who hypothesized that devness springs from a desire for self-acceptance. For example: if you have a hard time accepting your physical self how it is, you can derive immense pleasure by proxy via intimacy with a disabled partner who is physically “less than" by societal standards, but is comfortable in their own skin and vulnerably opening themselves up in such condition. If you can help them to feel even more comfortable and accepted, so much the better. That is what you really wanted for yourself when you were in your formative years. So the idea or fantasy of experiencing acceptance for and with a disabled partner is quite orgasmic because it's so very close to exactly what you want for yourself in your core. Very interesting take, no?

OMG I had almost the exact conversation with a dev friend once - but it was her suggestion not mine

This is an interesting concept. I can't think of any ways in which I specifically relate to it, but maybe there's a deeply hidden unconscious thought process there. I did always feel like I didn't fit in and had a hard time accepting myself, but the connection seems like a bit of a stretch for me personally. Such fascinating theories. I love what people come up with when trying to figure it all out.

[bluemagpie]

This has always been intriguing to me, but I have long ago accepted it as an unknowable. But exploring the why is probably a piece of the puzzle of accepting devness more completely as a part of myself as opposed to just leaving it in the attic of my brain.

Neither the self-acceptance nor the nurturing theories feel like they apply to me so still a mystery to me.

Still super interesting to read others' musings and what a lot of us do seem to have in common, like the early awareness and evolution of the attraction.

[robert_house]

Apr 16, 2021 10:59:00 GMT -5 koala said:

Apr 16, 2021 5:32:15 GMT -5 em said:

I'd like to see a lot more science on this actually, which I know is very difficult to find. I was even thinking of starting a thread on scientific studies that we found about devs, and potentially other topics like fetishes, BIID, wannabes, whatever, because I know there are a few psychologists and academics among us, and I'm sure a lot of people have searched for this stuff out of curiosity.

I would love this so much. I actually found this site as a result of my search for scientific/psychological studies on devness. Unfortunately, I only found one, and it was more focused on "curing" it through different sexual behavior therapies. I didn't agree with most of it, but it was still interesting.

"Cure it"? That sounds a hell of a lot like the misguided attempts to" cure " homosexuality. All kinds of yuck there. Besides, do they understand how mind-blowing it is to find somebody who loves you exactly for who you are? If we were in a society that could perfectly cure all types of disabilities equally, I could sort of understand how being a devotee would cause somebody a lot of angst. But as things stand, there are tons and tons of people out there who get their hearts broken again and again because people just can't get over their disability. What business does the rest of society have to say that being attracted to people with disabilities is wrong?

[Amee]

Yes, of course I've wondered! In fact, trying to figure out the Why was the only thing I allowed myself to do for a very long time. I searched for anything remotely scientific about it and bought several books on sexuality to find even a hint of an explanation, even if through something more general. Can't say it ever got me beyond the same old theories and hypotheses without any evidence that any of those have actual merit. It's a couple of years ago now, though, so I'm not up to date.

For me personally, the "nurturing" explanation would make some sense. I've had very strong mothering instincts from an early age and I've always wanted as many children as possible as early as possible (that hasn't worked out so well, haha). I would also say that I do enjoy caring for people and generally being nurturing. When I was a teenager, a cousine of mine, who is eight years younger, used to love it when I ran my fingers through her hair or combed it. I would do this endlessly when she stayed with us and I never got tired of it. Being able to make someone feel good with something so simple felt like a super-power. I was super protective of and mothering towards my little brother. I also really enjoy giving massages or doing other "caring" things for people like cooking for someone.
That said, these feelings are most strongly directed towards children (and extra-strong with babies). Within the dynamic of a relationship, I want a man to be strong and protective - even if I do enjoy being caring towards him as an aspect of the relationship as well. I guess my ideal relationship is the stone age marriage: "You go out and hunt some saber-toothed tiger and protect me from the bad Neanderthals, and I will cook you dinner and tend to your wounds when you come back into the cave." I've also always loved soldier-nurse romances and was very willing to watch all kinds of war movies with my father and brothers in hopes that they would feature one (even as a teeny-tiny subplot).

However, I'm not really convinced that this is the explanation for my devness. First, because plenty of devs don't have those strong mothering and caring urges. (I'm not really convinced that an attraction that is so similar for many of us would have fundamentally completely different origins.) And second, because I know many non-devs do. I have several friends who are very similar in that regard, obviously many women have very strong mothering instincts and "wounded hero/wounded warrior" romance is clearly a thing outside of the dev community. So, while it seems like a good explanation "within myself", it looks a little more like a coincidence when I start comparing to other (dev and non-dev) women.

The self-acceptance theory doesn't really ring true for me. I did have a serious lack of self-confidence and fear of not being accepted for many years, but my earliest dev-memories came long before that.

What seems scientifically most convincing to me is that we were born with some kind of predisposition and then something (which may have been so minor or perhaps even counterintuitive that we don't remember it) triggered it in early childhood. But of course that's also just a hypothesis.

[SouthernCalGal]

Apr 15, 2021 18:51:50 GMT -5 robert_house said:

Is it something about wanting to nurture and protect? Maybe just liking something "different"? I've been reading quite a few accounts of people explaining their devness over the past few weeks since joining, and two things always surprised me:
1). How young people were when they realized (often pubescent or pre-pubescent). And,
2). How it manifested during their early years. Ruth Madison has vivid accounts of wanting to bandage her dolls, for example.

Am I close?

I was cleaning out the attic recently and found some boxes from when I was a child.  I found an old Barbie doll and 2 Ken dolls from my childhood.  One of the Ken dolls was missing a leg and I had tacked his pant leg up. I honestly do not remember playing like this particularly with my dolls but apparently I did.  I also had news clippings that I cut out of the paper - I'm assuming I was in my teens when I did - one was a picture/article about a wheeler and the other picture was of a blind man.  Evidently, I liked those articles/pictures and liked them enough to pack them away. I neatly tucked them back into the box and I still have them. I think these things are early indications of my dev being developing.

[koala]

Apr 16, 2021 11:51:10 GMT -5 robert_house said:

"Cure it"? That sounds a hell of a lot like the misguided attempts to" cure " homosexuality. All kinds of yuck there. Besides, do they understand how mind-blowing it is to find somebody who loves you exactly for who you are? If we were in a society that could perfectly cure all types of disabilities equally, I could sort of understand how being a devotee would cause somebody a lot of angst. But as things stand, there are tons and tons of people out there who get their hearts broken again and again because people just can't get over their disability. What business does the rest of society have to say that being attracted to people with disabilities is wrong?

Yeah, I 1,000% agree with you. I think the bond that is formed when the right Dev and PWD come together is almost magical. At least it was for me and my wheeler...like nothing I could have ever imagined.

The study was rather horrifying in a lot of ways, and it definitely shared many similarities to those early homosexuality "re-programming" therapies. The whole premise was that dev tendencies are formed through positive reinforcement (i.e. masturbating) while viewing/thinking about PWDs. Therefore, the recommended therapies or "treatments" included things like viewing/thinking about PWDs while engaging in over stimulation or a complete lack of stimulation OR positive reinforcement while viewing/thinking about ABs. The hypothesis was that the "sexual deviance" could be reversed, and a person could be re-trained to be sexually aroused by "normal stimuli" instead. That last part is what I found most bothersome. I don't think anyone has the right to state that the disabled body is not worthy of being sexually stimulating. Who are they to define what body types should and should not be seen as desirable.

I found it interesting, though, that in the scientific/medical community being a dev is actually considered a "Sexual and Gender Identity Disorder" with its very own DSM-5 classification...complete with diagnostic criteria and treatment options and everything. My big takeaway from all of this was that if the scientific/medical community feels the need to classify being a dev as a certifiable mental disorder, I'd much rather be considered mentally ill than "normal". I like my devness and wouldn't want to change that part of myself for anything.