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Post by infinatedreams on Dec 20, 2022 11:44:13 GMT -5
Sorry but as someone that had an accident a left a para , I find this disgusting that you feel you are disabled. I think you need help big time . Who the f**k wants to be disabled? If this forum is allowing this bullshit then I’m off it’s degrading to gen disabled . It’s wrong on so many levels Can you then imagine the level of mental distress and turmoil that someone would experience if their brain was telling them, constantly, every hour and every minute of every day, that their body should be disabled? I think your gunna find that for disabled dudes the answer to that it Yes we can imagine all of the above except our brain is telling is we'd rather not be disabled. So the mental anguish malarky isnt gunna wash. Been there, done that, accepted my body for what it is got on with life. Id get another therapist if i was you, clearly the one you use is shit as youve self-disabled. Fortunately for you your brain only wanted a 'minor' disability or you could be really up shit creek and no way back.
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Post by ayla on Dec 20, 2022 12:00:15 GMT -5
Can you then imagine the level of mental distress and turmoil that someone would experience if their brain was telling them, constantly, every hour and every minute of every day, that their body should be disabled? I think your gunna find that for disabled dudes the answer to that it Yes we can imagine all of the above except our brain is telling is we'd rather not be disabled. So the mental anguish malarky isnt gunna wash. Been there, done that, accepted my body for what it is got on with life. This is a really excellent point. In general I think that people these days are quick to say they have “dysphoria” about some aspect of themselves. Most if not all people live in bodies that in some way (small or large) don’t match what they would prefer. They/we learn to live with it.
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Post by darthoso on Dec 20, 2022 12:58:34 GMT -5
Body modification very well might be the answer to treat your mental health issues, if it is, so be it. My biggest concern is treatments must be based in an ethical scientific process, otherwise we are just repeating a very ugly history that led to the necessity for bio ethics in the first place. Absent that process we're essentially crowd sourcing medical knowledge to social media and grifters. Every old wives tale and snake oil that we now know doesn't work (or was harmful such as mercury to treat pneumonia) is a result of that process. This crowd sourcing is already happening, Ivermectim to treat COVID, medically assisted dying laws being to lax being pushed on to PWDs: globalnews.ca/news/9321582/veterans-affairs-maid-cases-trudeau/
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Post by Green on Dec 20, 2022 13:59:55 GMT -5
Would you say the same thing about transgender people? I've been careful making a distinction. To alter or change your gender identity isn't really going to change your overall state of health, plus when people refer to gender identity, they are usually referring to something like personality. Besides, if somebody has sex change surgery, that's just extreme plastic surgery. Deliberate medical harm is a whole different issue.
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queerwheels
New Member
Posts: 25
Gender: Non-binary
Dev Status: BIID
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Post by queerwheels on Dec 20, 2022 14:05:53 GMT -5
I think your gunna find that for disabled dudes the answer to that it Yes we can imagine all of the above except our brain is telling is we'd rather not be disabled. So the mental anguish malarky isnt gunna wash. Been there, done that, accepted my body for what it is got on with life. This is a really excellent point. In general I think that people these days are quick to say they have “dysphoria” about some aspect of themselves. Most if not all people live in bodies that in some way (small or large) don’t match what they would prefer. They/we learn to live with it. I would really encourage you to get to know transgender people or even people with BID. Dysphoria is very very different from not preferring something about your body. Yes - disabled people were forced to accept it and get on with it. I'm assuming though that some disabled people would accept a cure if there were one. In my case, I found an option to relieve that dysphoria and I took it. I don't understand why you're insisting that I should have accepted it and dealt with it. Again - it does not affect you what I do or don't do.
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queerwheels
New Member
Posts: 25
Gender: Non-binary
Dev Status: BIID
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Post by queerwheels on Dec 20, 2022 14:17:23 GMT -5
Would you say the same thing about transgender people? I've been careful making a distinction. To alter or change your gender identity isn't really going to change your overall state of health, plus when people refer to gender identity, they are usually referring to something like personality. Besides, if somebody has sex change surgery, that's just extreme plastic surgery. Deliberate medical harm is a whole different issue. There is definitely a distinction between gender identity and personality. If a transgender person seeks surgery, it's probably not because their personality somehow dictates that they shouldn't have a penis. It's an innate sense of brain-body mismatch. Furthermore, many transgender men bind their chests to relieve dysphoria, which can in fact cause medical harm if done for too long. Most people with BID do not self-harm. I am not encouraging that anyone, with or without BID, self-harm. I am repeatedly acknowledging that it was a fucked up, dangerous action. I am just asking you to understand that dysphoria with one's body and one's physical abilities is rare, but real, and in some cases overwhelming enough that people self-harm. I consider my dysphoria essentially resolved at this point. I don't understand how any of this affects anyone else, or why people are attempting to dispute facts of my experience when I am literally just trying to exist in this world.
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Post by Braced4Impact on Dec 20, 2022 14:45:36 GMT -5
Welcome, hope you find what you're looking for here.
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Post by Dani on Dec 20, 2022 15:10:34 GMT -5
People who've gone through involuntary traumatic life changes are members here. These are people who've suffered and who've overcome and adapted. Some folks here have been disabled from birth, and though they know nothing different, they've probably imagined many times in their lives how it would be not to be disabled. Some men here have led active lives and have suffered an accident or illness that disabled them and forced them to adapt to their new identities as PWD. They probably have often wished they could turn back the clock and change their fate. It is completely understandable to me that not everyone can embrace a person with a self-inflicted injury to cause disability. Every time we've had BIID folks join, it triggers deep and strong emotions, and it scratches scars and psyches; it's not really positive, and though not everyone speaks up about it openly, people are not always too happy about it. You're entitled to live your life as you see fit, and if what you did makes it better for you, good, but I also agree that PD is not the right place to discuss anything BIID, and though honesty is appreciated, not everyone here will be welcoming. Of course with honesty comes the fact that you'll address that you have BIID and that is appreciated, but again, it is a trigger for many different reactions and often causes tension. And as for devotees, I have yet to meet a devotee who would be attracted by BIID-inflicted injury and disability. As devotees, we're dealing with our own emotions and often complicated feelings, and PD is one of the safest spaces for us to meet other devotees and real PWD who are curious and open-minded about us. Being a devotee is a very personal thing and so being able to connect with like-minded women and men who are also devotees and the real PWD who are curious and open-minded to us is very important. This is what this board means to me.
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Post by Green on Dec 20, 2022 16:03:13 GMT -5
Most people with BID do not self-harm. I am not encouraging that anyone, with or without BID, self-harm. I am repeatedly acknowledging that it was a fucked up, dangerous action. I am just asking you to understand that dysphoria with one's body and one's physical abilities is rare, but real, and in some cases overwhelming enough that people self-harm. I consider my dysphoria essentially resolved at this point. I don't understand how any of this affects anyone else, or why people are attempting to dispute facts of my experience when I am literally just trying to exist in this world. Yeah, it's real. But take an extreme example. You know the show Dexter? He has a very real discomfort with sociopathic tendencies to murder people. He realizes that it is really fucked up, and to murder somebody even more so. So he chooses to murder people who have committed some kind of major injustice. Your choices would be more like Dexter choosing to murder innocent people for the sake of his "leaving people alive" dysphoria. No, what you did is not nearly as bad as anything Dexter did, but I think people here are saying that you are reallyyyyyyy neglecting how other people respond to seeing you. Of course people responding differently is part of the point, except they are responding to someone who they expect didn't and couldn't choose their physical disability, a medical condition. It doesn't compare with transgender people, because being a man or woman isn't a medical condition.
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queerwheels
New Member
Posts: 25
Gender: Non-binary
Dev Status: BIID
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Post by queerwheels on Dec 20, 2022 16:30:13 GMT -5
It's frankly ridiculous you would attempt to make the comparison to Dexter murdering people out of a "leaving people alive" dysphoria. I have yet to meet a transgender person or person with BID whose dysphoria requires them to hurt anyone else, and the fact that you're trying to equate me changing my own body to hurting unconsenting third parties is disgusting. No, I cannot change how people react to seeing me. Nor should I need to take that into account unless I specifically intend to interact with that person. I'm genuinely sorry that hearing about a condition that is part of my life is triggering for so many people. However, nobody is forcing you to reply to this thread. If seeing "BIID" by my profile is uncomfortable, please feel free to block me. At this point, though, it's been multiple days that people are coming into this thread unprompted to say insulting things about me, because I shared details about a rare condition that I live with. I did not invite debate about whether BID is real or not, or comments about how I, a complete stranger on the internet living my own life, am somehow causing you pain by existing. I assure you that if my having BID or what I do or don't do to my body is relevant to you, you will know. In the meantime, if you want to engage in such "debates", please do it somewhere else. And if people with BID are not welcome here, please make that absolutely clear before we sign up.
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Post by ayla on Dec 20, 2022 16:31:08 GMT -5
This is a really excellent point. In general I think that people these days are quick to say they have “dysphoria” about some aspect of themselves. Most if not all people live in bodies that in some way (small or large) don’t match what they would prefer. They/we learn to live with it. I would really encourage you to get to know transgender people or even people with BID. Dysphoria is very very different from not preferring something about your body. Yes - disabled people were forced to accept it and get on with it. I'm assuming though that some disabled people would accept a cure if there were one. In my case, I found an option to relieve that dysphoria and I took it. I don't understand why you're insisting that I should have accepted it and dealt with it. Again - it does not affect you what I do or don't do. Very presumptuous of you to think I don’t know any trans people in 2022. For all you know I *am* a trans woman! Whatever my identity or experience, that has nothing to do with my impression that people today are quick to lump dissatisfaction in with dysphoria. Just as people are quick to lump gender identity in with sex. Not making a value judgment about any of this. But, pray tell, how is dysphoria — a mental state in which a person has a profound sense of unease or dissatisfaction — “very very different” from preferring not to be disabled?
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Post by ayla on Dec 20, 2022 16:43:31 GMT -5
And, for what it’s worth, I actually support the belief that people should be allowed to alter their bodies as they see fit, including disabling themselves. My point is that you should read the room. You bringing your dysphoria at the idea of being able bodied to a community full of people who are involuntarily disabled is like a trans man joining a group of AMAB people who are unable to transition to their perceived sex.
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Post by newjess on Dec 20, 2022 17:18:08 GMT -5
I am of course speaking only for myself here, but I do think it is possible to simultaneously be disabled and have compassion for people with BIID. Over the past several years I have been dealing with debilitating health issues that have very much limited my life. I have grieved for the able body I once had and would go to great lengths to have that body again. I understand my health issues are a different experience than what many PWD here have so again, I am speaking only for myself.
I also know what it is like to be called disgusting for being a dev and also for having some BIID-like experiences myself. I absolutely think that grieving my old body/life and accepting what my life is now is completely different than my experiences living in a way that was distressing because I hated myself and was repressing/denying (as a dev, etc) and knowing that I will always be hated and misunderstood for it by large portions of society. I am not saying that either one is worse or better than the other, they are just different.
I see what has happened here as no different than a dev joining what they thought was a dev-friendly place, understandably defending themselves in a respectful/honest way when they were called "disgusting" and other hurtful things, acknowledging that they understand how it could come across as fucked up to others, etc. This person has done nothing wrong in my opinion. If they knew that this wasn't a BIID friendly place, I highly doubt they would have joined or posted.
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Post by ayla on Dec 20, 2022 21:05:49 GMT -5
I don’t think having BID/BIID is disgusting or wrong. I definitely have sympathy for their situation. After all, I was the person further up the thread who affirmed that there’s not much “choice” involved. I just don’t think this forum is the right place since it’s very much outside the dev/pwd experience for the majority of contributors here. As Dani said most devs are really not attracted to those who self-debilitate or pretend. And it seems like the involuntarily disabled pwd here don’t feel much kinship with them either. It would make more sense if female pwd/devs of female pwd were allowed, rather than BID/BIID folks.
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indigo44
New Member
Posts: 38
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by indigo44 on Dec 20, 2022 21:17:46 GMT -5
Sorry but as someone that had an accident a left a para , I find this disgusting that you feel you are disabled. I think you need help big time . Who the f**k wants to be disabled? If this forum is allowing this bullshit then I’m off it’s degrading to gen disabled . It’s wrong on so many levels I don’t care if this is seen as a minor issue but I hate seeing people saying things like ‘you need help!’ in this way, because it isn’t done out of actual concern for a person needing help and you’re not actually interested in a person getting ‘help’, it’s just using it as an insult, when needing help for your mental health isn’t a bad thing. Saying this is stigmatising and ableist in and of itself. Sorry, I just get really annoyed when I see this
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