jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 1:13:29 GMT -5
Boy, a few things to unpack here. Given that she wasn't specific about why she cut things off, you really can't feel that bad in this isolated incident. Depending on her type of mental health issues, there may have been something going on internally (flared through talking with you or not) that got her to an unhealthy spot. Modern dating might be filled with "windowshopping" and ghosting, but poor mental health is notorious for vague departures. I don't need you to share every detail about how you were "getting on like a house on fire", but you might consider what sort of connection you were truly building. Was it deep and meaningful, or was it a sudden wildfire of sharing hobbies, interests, and sexual tensions? I had a previous relationship that caught on like wildfire too. We exchanged messages for couple of weeks, the first date was amazing, and she started staying full weekends within a few weeks. We went on several many road trips, and we felt like this was it. No more dating. By month 3, there were strong personality differences that showed we just weren't right for each other. My point being: even if you think you have something AMAZING together, it's important to still take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I've online dated as a C4/5 quad for too many years. As much as I would love to be able to use apps to find devs, I've definitely never been expectant of that. I have no advice for you to modify your approaches to find a dev in your area. I do agree that it's really hard dating with a disability. Can we humans naturally judge books by their cover, so getting through initial screening on dating apps is pretty low success. But low success isn't the same as no success. I started dating a woman toward the beginning of this year after being single for over three years. Shit, after a few weeks of exchanging messages when we first met on bumble, we had set a date for our first date... two days later I had a seizure-induced hospital stay for five days. I had seemingly ghosted for a few days (bc I was unconscious in the hospital), I had to postpone that first date by a week, and I still wasn't quite myself for at least the first month. Even so, the solid connection we had started building over messages was enough to give her hope that this could be something. There were times when single life was frustrating because you can't decide to go on a bunch of dates with a bunch of people to "get back out there" when a very visible physical disability keeps you held back at the door. Remember that the age old adage of "if you're not happy with your life when single, you won't be happy in a relationship" is just as true for anyone with a disability. While I've never had the dating life of going on first date after first date (after first date after first date after first date…) to find the right person, it seems like online dating as a PWD can help cut out all of the terrible first dates and guide you toward a good match instead. If given time. Without making it the first or second message exchange, I try to be upfront with people about my timeline and express that it takes a little more trust for both of us before moving to a first date because she generally needs to either drive us together or meet me somewhere near my home. Through that, you can both have a better idea if the match is right before even getting to a date. It goes without saying that being your natural self while exchanging messages and on the first few dates is so important. I hope that you don't seem so down in the dumps on your dates, or that might push some people away too. I just meant we were having a good time and being flirty and telling each other jokes. It was easy to talk to her. She told me she didn't want to date me but did want to hang out and proposed coffee at a place nearby my house. Oh and you are absolutely right that this is a single data point and that I'm not mad at her or whatever, it is just disheartening to keep collecting the "no" data points and seeing the patterns emerge. I don't know, it's not not landing this one date. It's the relationships that ended or didn't happen because of it, it's being gate kept out of dating bc I literally can't get through the door at the dance club, it's just all the little indignities and self doubts, and insensitive ableism, that accrues over the years and this is just the one I needed to vent about today I guess. The emotional disability tax of dating I guess is what Im bemoaning here. I am decidedly more choosey with my words with my words in the beginnings of texts so as not to come off as morose or down in the dumps but it is getting harder to hide that I'm tired from the search.
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 1:19:41 GMT -5
Hmm I think I would say it's important to manage expectations. The vast majority of conversations on dating apps will go nowhere. A few will lead to dates but most of those dates will go nowhere. Every now and then some of the dates will lead to a relationship, but most of those will also go nowhere after just a couple of months. I know it is fun sometimes to get caught up in the thrill of talking to a new person, where you get so excited you set your house on fire or whatever... I don't really understand the metaphor. But for your own mental health and protection you should always be aware that it probably will lead to nothing, so just relax and try to enjoy yourself next time, with fewer expectations lol everyone got hung up on the metaphor. getting on like a house on fire just means there's chemistry and a lot of laughter, I don't know why it means that. Just people around me say it so I figured everybody said it! But yeah, I'm pretty good at managing expectations but you know how sometimes you just click? She thinks we click enough that she would like to be friends and hang out. So dating frustration aside, I have an opportunity to make a new friend. so that's something at least.
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Post by Dani on Jun 4, 2024 1:22:47 GMT -5
I don't feel guilty or ashamed for being a devotee. I kinda don't care really what anyone would think of me. But with anything very personal, sexuality or intimacy-related, I don't feel the need to scream it into the world. I think we can agree that some things should be kept personal and within our relationships with people or the partners we interact with. I sense a bit of projection from you, maybe, and I also get the vibe that you are still dealing with being okay with your own situation. Until you can't be okay with your situation, it's probably difficult to be with another person. I do believe in the term "you have to love yourself to love another person". If there is a disconnect in the "loving yourself" part, it can cause issues I think. I've had this happen before when a PWD is looking at me for verification and confirmation to make them feel better about their situation. If I can't do that, if I'm not attracted to them or not interested in pursuing anything else besides friendship, they lash out at me or make me feel like I am the problem and I am sick. I don't care about this because I know they are the ones with the problem. And deception has happened to me often enough, too, with pretenders/BIID folks or people who are not what they claim to be. I definitely know about deception and it's not a good feeling.
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Post by Dani on Jun 4, 2024 1:31:02 GMT -5
And you also need to remember that the number of devs is very low. You won't find devs on every corner and so the chance to find someone you match with is pretty slim. You shouldn't only focus on devs anyway, but be open to other people, too. This is something that dev and PWD have experienced alike...finding the right match in our already limited dating/relationship pool is very slim. Some people are lucky and find someone, but we are spread out all over the world, so it's not that easy to find someone who aligns with our preferred character and physical traits. I hope you don't find this offensive, I mean it lovingly and with respect: From what has been shared with me from a dev perspective it really really feels like pre-aids era gayness.There's a lot of hiding, of shame, of feeling bad and guilty and wrong about liking what you like, about being told it's wrong by other people etc... so the hanky code was developed, different colors meant different things, the pocket you wore it in denoted top or bottom etc... I'm NOT saying appropriate the hanky code, but I think that if ya'll came up with a way to make yourselves visible only to each other you might find that there's a lot more out there than you think. And probably there are legit less devs than gay men but now we've got the internet. Who's to say you don't make it a silent meme to like, add a blue corner to your profile pic to "flag" you're a dev. I dunno, might be worth something finding out. I think that's wishful thinking. Even if there was a "code", you still won't find devs on every corner just like I basically don't find a PWD with my preferred disability where all the stars align and we match, but I'm also not on dating apps. I mean the times I see/have seen a wheeler out in the wild are very low. Even when I go to large events, I sometimes don't even see one wheeler. I do go to concerts quite often or other large events like sports events and I'm always baffled how little I see guys in a wheelchair. If I do see some, they may be with someone or I'm not attracted to them. So, it's just very RARE. That being said, I saw many more PWD being out and about every time I'm in Germany than here in the US.
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Post by ichbin on Jun 4, 2024 2:20:21 GMT -5
I just really wanted to meet my person. And I thought I had. But there was a lot of deception happening in that relationship that I had zero idea about so I don't know if what I felt was real or not. First of all I think it´s great that you share how you feel! I can relate a lot to your sentence "And I thought I had." - it has happened to me twice that I met a man who I thought was "the guy" for me. So much chemistry in the communication, humor, laughter, dancing, touches, spending three days in a hotel with a lot of sexual encounters and real intimacy.... And then the guy faded away. One of them even told me he "met a woman who enchanted him". Back then I just didn´t get it and kept thinking: "what is wrong with me?" like, am I not pretty enough, is my hair too short, am I too fat, not funny enough.... WHY?? Why can´t I be the one who "enchanted him"? Looking back to these days from the now-perspective I totally understand why these two particular men were "chased away" by me. I was way too clingy and needy and all I wanted is them to want me. Now, I am not at all saying this is the case with you because I have no idea! I just wanted to share my personal experience and what your post reminded me of. You wrote "there was a lot of deception happening". From my experience there´s often a lot of projection happening. I once met a man on tinder with whom "the house was on fire" from the VERY beginning. We got together and were in an almost 2,5 year lasting relationship. However, this relationship was absolutely toxic, there was drama ALL THE TIME! We weren´t compatible at all. There was not one single day with just ease and happiness. There was always disappointment and very very many tears and frustration on my side. And back then I couldn´t see the toxicity of the relationship. When we separated it was sooo hard because I was always like "it could be him, it could be him!!" Fact is: it WASN´T him, and therefore it could NOT have been him. People are what they are and not what you project onto (or is it "into"?) them. "if he just were a little bit more like this or that, things would be perfect!" That just never works! For me personally I found that this amazing "chemistry house on fire" - thing has often to do with projection. When - on the other hand - there´s not so much dazzling and blinding because of what you WANT to see in the other person and instead you just see the other person, it can feel immensely boring and not at all like "love". But it´s calm waters instead of monster waves.... it´s harmony instead of fights all the time. I think with your experience the advise that others gave on this thread to have less expectations and "take it easy" is a very good one. So you can give the other person what you wish for yourself: to see him/her just the way they are and not project onto them the picture of what your perfect partner looks like. (not to say that this is an easy thing to do!!)
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Post by kat on Jun 4, 2024 7:43:17 GMT -5
I'm NOT saying appropriate the hanky code, but I think that if ya'll came up with a way to make yourselves visible only to each other you might find that there's a lot more out there than you think. And probably there are legit less devs than gay men but now we've got the internet. Who's to say you don't make it a silent meme to like, add a blue corner to your profile pic to "flag" you're a dev. I dunno, might be worth something finding out. I'm not gonna lie, Pride month has actually made me wish that there was a dev flag. I'd happily pin one to myself even if 0.001% of the population got it. A secret code like that feels kinda exciting and naughty, lol.
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melaney23
New Member
Posts: 13
Gender: Female
Dev Status: Devotee
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Post by melaney23 on Jun 4, 2024 9:16:02 GMT -5
I completely agree with what everyone is saying in this thread. Basically, online dating sucks-- I've truly never met anyone who has never been frustrated and annoyed by it. On a different note, I wonder if you frequent any LGBTQ spaces. I know your post is mainly centered on disability (which makes sense given the nature of this forum). I bring that up, though, because in my experience young queer people are, on average, more understanding about disability. The queer community loves to PRETEND to care about disability and accountability and from what I’ve see. It’s been a big nothing burger IME. :/ I mean I’m trans and queer as rainbow sunshine in June but that hasn’t helped. Got it, so sorry that has been your experience, that's fair. There's definitely a lot of performativity everywhere, and I can see how that would be the case in queer spaces.
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 10:35:33 GMT -5
I just really wanted to meet my person. And I thought I had. But there was a lot of deception happening in that relationship that I had zero idea about so I don't know if what I felt was real or not. First of all I think it´s great that you share how you feel! I can relate a lot to your sentence "And I thought I had." - it has happened to me twice that I met a man who I thought was "the guy" for me. So much chemistry in the communication, humor, laughter, dancing, touches, spending three days in a hotel with a lot of sexual encounters and real intimacy.... And then the guy faded away. One of them even told me he "met a woman who enchanted him". Back then I just didn´t get it and kept thinking: "what is wrong with me?" like, am I not pretty enough, is my hair too short, am I too fat, not funny enough.... WHY?? Why can´t I be the one who "enchanted him"? Looking back to these days from the now-perspective I totally understand why these two particular men were "chased away" by me. I was way too clingy and needy and all I wanted is them to want me. Now, I am not at all saying this is the case with you because I have no idea! I just wanted to share my personal experience and what your post reminded me of. You wrote "there was a lot of deception happening". From my experience there´s often a lot of projection happening. I once met a man on tinder with whom "the house was on fire" from the VERY beginning. We got together and were in an almost 2,5 year lasting relationship. However, this relationship was absolutely toxic, there was drama ALL THE TIME! We weren´t compatible at all. There was not one single day with just ease and happiness. There was always disappointment and very very many tears and frustration on my side. And back then I couldn´t see the toxicity of the relationship. When we separated it was sooo hard because I was always like "it could be him, it could be him!!" Fact is: it WASN´T him, and therefore it could NOT have been him. People are what they are and not what you project onto (or is it "into"?) them. "if he just were a little bit more like this or that, things would be perfect!" That just never works! For me personally I found that this amazing "chemistry house on fire" - thing has often to do with projection. When - on the other hand - there´s not so much dazzling and blinding because of what you WANT to see in the other person and instead you just see the other person, it can feel immensely boring and not at all like "love". But it´s calm waters instead of monster waves.... it´s harmony instead of fights all the time. I think with your experience the advise that others gave on this thread to have less expectations and "take it easy" is a very good one. So you can give the other person what you wish for yourself: to see him/her just the way they are and not project onto them the picture of what your perfect partner looks like. (not to say that this is an easy thing to do!!) For us it was different we NEVER fought. So I thought things were fine. We were talking about moving in together for MONTHS and then three days after I threw her a huge birthday party and gave her sapphire earrings which I asked ahead of time if we were at big jewelry gift stage and she said yes… then she literally told me “I wasn’t sure you knew the relationship had changed for me but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings” and then “I wanted to give you a reparative experience with an abled person .” So sure, I’m sure I was projecting plenty, we all do. But this specific time I was deliberately misled and kept in the dark about very important and relevant relationship things. It makes me feel really scared and really sad bc now I don’t know if anything my friends or family say is real. Bc she so clearly and unflinchingly made promises to be there forever that I couldn’t tell the difference between a performance to fix me and the real thing. So NOW I’m projecting all over the place. And that’s been a real good time. :/
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Post by James on Jun 4, 2024 10:48:25 GMT -5
Listen dude, it seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues from your past that are affecting you and your mental health pretty severely. I feel like you really need to take a big (metaphorical) step back from dating and deal with those issues because they are going to hold you back until you do. It's just beyond unfair to potentially project all of this onto a potential partner.
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 10:55:36 GMT -5
I don't feel guilty or ashamed for being a devotee. I kinda don't care really what anyone would think of me. But with anything very personal, sexuality or intimacy-related, I don't feel the need to scream it into the world. I think we can agree that some things should be kept personal and within our relationships with people or the partners we interact with. I sense a bit of projection from you, maybe, and I also get the vibe that you are still dealing with being okay with your own situation. Until you can't be okay with your situation, it's probably difficult to be with another person. I do believe in the term "you have to love yourself to love another person". If there is a disconnect in the "loving yourself" part, it can cause issues I think. I've had this happen before when a PWD is looking at me for verification and confirmation to make them feel better about their situation. If I can't do that, if I'm not attracted to them or not interested in pursuing anything else besides friendship, they lash out at me or make me feel like I am the problem and I am sick. I don't care about this because I know they are the ones with the problem. And deception has happened to me often enough, too, with pretenders/BIID folks or people who are not what they claim to be. I definitely know about deception and it's not a good feeling. First of all: I am very very very sorry this happened to you. Rejection can make people very unhinged very fast and that 100% does not make that reaction ok. I hear that my AB friends deal with shit like this too. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) I am ok with being disabled I just am not ok with how others treat me for it. Or that I don’t have equal access to buildings, nature, whatever good things in life and that I have to pay the disability tax. Or trapped by abled people’s stares, or expectations of me, or whatever. Sometimes that’s all too heavy to carry and it makes me really sad. That’s why I came and posted about it here bc I thought people might relate. But of course it can get under my skin and upset, particularly when people say it’s the reason why, it’s hard to be ok by being met with THAT over and over again. I don’t blame individuals, it’s the TREND that keeps me up at night.
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 11:21:31 GMT -5
Listen dude, it seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues from your past that are affecting you and your mental health pretty severely. I feel like you really need to take a big (metaphorical) step back from dating and deal with those issues because they are going to hold you back until you do. It's just beyond unfair to potentially project all of this onto a potential partner. One line of thought says don’t date until you’re fully (or enough) healed, one line says we heal through relationships with others; you know think they both have points. I truly don’t know what I said that has everyone super worried and ready to jump on me and my shortcomings when all I did was express confusion and disappointment that the apps aren’t working for me. :/ I also didn’t add this to the body of the text and maybe I should have but I’m Autistic, and spent the last 12 yrs dating men, and having women back around and having straight women no less asking me on dates or asking me me to talk to them is new to me and quite frankly freaks me out a little bit bc I don’t know what they expect of me. I guess I’m just truly honestly confused about how being disappointed and frustrated is coming across so intensely that I’m getting the comments I’m getting.. I don’t get if there’s just stuff you guys are seeing that I am not bc you have more experience or what. But I dunno, I guess I just thought “hey, got rejected and told it was about disability again. It hurt. I’m frustrated and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. But I’m making new friends so I’m doing this half right. How do you guys do this?” I dunno, it seems normal and healthy to come up against a problem and ask for advice and a little commiseration on a message board with people who make experiences similar frustrations… But maybe this is not the right board for that…
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 12:00:01 GMT -5
I just really wanted to meet my person. And I thought I had. But there was a lot of deception happening in that relationship that I had zero idea about so I don't know if what I felt was real or not. First of all I think it´s great that you share how you feel! I can relate a lot to your sentence "And I thought I had." - it has happened to me twice that I met a man who I thought was "the guy" for me. So much chemistry in the communication, humor, laughter, dancing, touches, spending three days in a hotel with a lot of sexual encounters and real intimacy.... And then the guy faded away. One of them even told me he "met a woman who enchanted him". Back then I just didn´t get it and kept thinking: "what is wrong with me?" like, am I not pretty enough, is my hair too short, am I too fat, not funny enough.... WHY?? Why can´t I be the one who "enchanted him"? Looking back to these days from the now-perspective I totally understand why these two particular men were "chased away" by me. I was way too clingy and needy and all I wanted is them to want me. Now, I am not at all saying this is the case with you because I have no idea! I just wanted to share my personal experience and what your post reminded me of. You wrote "there was a lot of deception happening". From my experience there´s often a lot of projection happening. I once met a man on tinder with whom "the house was on fire" from the VERY beginning. We got together and were in an almost 2,5 year lasting relationship. However, this relationship was absolutely toxic, there was drama ALL THE TIME! We weren´t compatible at all. There was not one single day with just ease and happiness. There was always disappointment and very very many tears and frustration on my side. And back then I couldn´t see the toxicity of the relationship. When we separated it was sooo hard because I was always like "it could be him, it could be him!!" Fact is: it WASN´T him, and therefore it could NOT have been him. People are what they are and not what you project onto (or is it "into"?) them. "if he just were a little bit more like this or that, things would be perfect!" That just never works! For me personally I found that this amazing "chemistry house on fire" - thing has often to do with projection. When - on the other hand - there´s not so much dazzling and blinding because of what you WANT to see in the other person and instead you just see the other person, it can feel immensely boring and not at all like "love". But it´s calm waters instead of monster waves.... it´s harmony instead of fights all the time. I think with your experience the advise that others gave on this thread to have less expectations and "take it easy" is a very good one. So you can give the other person what you wish for yourself: to see him/her just the way they are and not project onto them the picture of what your perfect partner looks like. (not to say that this is an easy thing to do!!) So my fav place in the world is Disneyland bc I am GUARANTEED to meet a new wheelchair using friend every time. Disneyland is FULL of DP bc they’re committed to accessibility. And it’s also a place we just get to have fun like everyone else. I’ve seen a few wheelchair users in the Disney singes groups on FB. Don’t know if you’re ready to take a new (expensive) hobby but when I need to be in the company of fellow disabled people even if I’m not gonna talk to them that’s where I go. Sorry this was for Dani
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Post by ayla on Jun 4, 2024 12:00:34 GMT -5
I think the responses you've been getting have been very supportive and insightful. Not sure why they are coming across to you as "jumping on you." You literally said you want "advice and a little commiseration" ...you've gotten quite a lot of both?
It sounds to me like you are not happy with the advice you're receiving and you want MORE of the commiseration. Perhaps I am wrong.
Every single person on this board has been disappointed and frustrated by dating apps (or they haven't been on them). I will be happy to hear if this isn't the case but I strongly suspect that it is. We understand. We are giving you feedback that those feelings are just part of the process of app dating even before you factor in the disability stuff. And everyone on this board also knows how difficult the disability stuff makes dating, whether from the pwd or dev perspective. You may not even be "doing wrong." There is just an incredibly high failure rate and that requires radical acceptance of reality, and appropriate expectations/priorities.
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jakeonwheels
Junior Member
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Posts: 81
Gender: Trans
Dev Status: Disabled
Relationship Status: Single
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Post by jakeonwheels on Jun 4, 2024 12:41:47 GMT -5
I think the responses you've been getting have been very supportive and insightful. Not sure why they are coming across to you as "jumping on you." You literally said you want "advice and a little commiseration" ...you've gotten quite a lot of both? It sounds to me like you are not happy with the advice you're receiving and you want MORE of the commiseration. Perhaps I am wrong. Every single person on this board has been disappointed and frustrated by dating apps (or they haven't been on them). I will be happy to hear if this isn't the case but I strongly suspect that it is. We understand. We are giving you feedback that those feelings are just part of the process of app dating even before you factor in the disability stuff. And everyone on this board also knows how difficult the disability stuff makes dating, whether from the pwd or dev perspective. You may not even be "doing wrong." There is just an incredibly high failure rate and that requires radical acceptance of reality, and appropriate expectations/priorities. Sorry, I felt attacked by the LAST comment and my brain did a thing. It can be faultier than the average humans. I agree that the comments and advice and commiseration I he have gotten has been solid and appreciated and I tried to express that in my replies. I am sorry I if it felt like I was trying to say my experience with the apps is the only one that matters, not at all, so I’m very sorry that it came across like that. I’m not sure how I should have worded it better but I will work on it.
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Post by ayla on Jun 4, 2024 13:18:53 GMT -5
It's not that it seemed like your experience with apps is the only one that matters. It's just that, sadly but honestly, it's not very unique. Almost everyone struggles with them, even conventionally good looking able bodied people who are looking for same. Everyone on Paradevo faces an even bigger challenge than the general population so we know the difficulty. But even without that: the apps are literally designed not to be super successful. And you have to remember also that these apps are taking the place of what used to be just seeing someone in public and starting a conversation. That's all you're doing. Saying hi. "Matching" and chatting with someone is basically meaningless -- as meaningless as a conversation with an interesting/attractive stranger in an elevator or bar. My advice is to remember that all you're doing there is mingling, not interviewing candidates for Your Person.
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