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Post by Chan on Jun 21, 2008 7:39:53 GMT -5
So I can't help but notice that in St. Petersburg, the second biggest city in the entire country, I think, there is basically an absence of the disabled community. I mean, the entire time I've been here I've seen one blind guy.....and that's it.
I know a big part of it has to do with how completely unaccessible everything is. If someplace even actually has an elevator or lift on a multi-story building, it doesn't work. Accessibility is definitely not an issue in Russia or important to the locals. I remember reading some passage in a Russian travel guide before I left about the situation for disabled travelers (Andy wants to come visit me), and it said something along the lines of, "Disabled access is not common in Russia. Disabled people prefer to stay in the privacy of their own homes, anyway."
Pffff.
The only Russian word I know of so far for disability (I've tried explaining repeatedly to my host mother about Andy and have shown her numerous pictures, but she doesn't understand and just thinks he doesn't have any legs) is "invalid."
Oh yeah, and when she found out he was in a wheelchair, the first thing she asked me was, "Is he rich?" And I was all like, "........what?" And then she immediately made the assumption that he's paying for my education, apartment, clothes, etc. When I told her that I don't use Andy's money, she just said, "Why?"
I think, like in a lot of other countries, people assume that if you're with a dis guy then they MUST be loaded. Otherwise, what's the point, right?
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Post by thegoodlife on Jun 21, 2008 8:44:51 GMT -5
Wow, chan. I had no idea it was that bad there. We had a russian phd student in the philosophy department here for a short while. He and I had a few conversations, in passing he kind of mentioned what the attitude was like there. But I had no idea it was this inaccessable. It kind of makes me glad to be living here in Canada, it also reminds me of what a huge civil rights issue accessability really is. Not to mention that social attitudes really need to change towards disabled people. Anyways thanks for that.
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Post by Triassic on Jun 21, 2008 9:18:54 GMT -5
i've heard that the russians have a particular distaste for the disabled. chinese too. but really, when you think about it, it's that way everywhere except for the civilized, capitalist west; america, canada, western europe, australia, new zealand. that's it, baby...japan could be accessible, but i've heard they're like the russians. this is why i get pissed off when i hear or read someone slamming western civilization.
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Post by Triassic on Jun 21, 2008 9:21:37 GMT -5
but you can bet there are russian, chinese and japanese devs....
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Post by charlene on Jun 21, 2008 9:26:04 GMT -5
but you can bet there are russian, chinese and japanese devs.... Zwetok81 is a russian dev
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Post by Pony on Jun 21, 2008 10:57:40 GMT -5
I've wondered about this a lot, you know, what the attitudes and physical barriers are outside the States, and I've heard similar things about most countries outside the 'civilized west', as Tri put it. It disheartens me about the world ever really accepting the disABLED when I hear what Chan faced in Russia. Hell, we have a hard enough time in this rich country, so maybe our expectations for these other countries are too high. Sometimes I do feel like the physically-challenged community is the one group people left that it's ok to discriminate against, especially in other countries. We have definitely made headway in US, but we have far to go. Places, like Russia, haven't even started on changing...it takes many years to shift 'attitudes.'
I have to say, I'm disappointed that this subject isn't even discussed in mainstream media - like, 'it's okay to discriminate, it's only the physically fucked up people.' I, personally, think Martin Luther King, Jr's message was meant for disabled peeps, too.
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Post by natasha on Jun 21, 2008 16:33:54 GMT -5
Interesting post... But about the people thinking that the guy have to be loaded or something in order of u to be with him doesn't come far from other places.... I'm from Puerto Rico and here even though is pretty accessible(since we have USA accessibility construction laws) people would asked me all kind of crazy questions when they knew my ex was in a wheelchair and that one was included!!! In that part I think that people are always trying to figure it out why anybody would be in a relationship with a disabled person....Maybe they would not be as crazy as Russians are but its a constant struggle for people to accept that being partner with a disabled person isnt a out of this world thing .. ....
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Post by BA on Jun 21, 2008 17:55:35 GMT -5
"Disabled access is not common in Russia. Disabled people prefer to stay in the privacy of their own homes, anyway." Pffff. The only Russian word I know of so far for disability (I've tried explaining repeatedly to my host mother about Andy and have shown her numerous pictures, but she doesn't understand and just thinks he doesn't have any legs) is "invalid." Russian, East Indian, Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, Korean.... as a nurse I have spoken with other nurses from each of these cultures and MOST have had very little regard for anyone with a disability. It is seen as a 'shame' to the family, counterproductive to society (as in a drain on the economy). In most of these countries individuals with disabilities do not attend school. In the Phillipines they are not given medical care because it is deemed "too costly". In a nutshell, you are less than a person in many of these cultures. They are not so much picked on as ignored (which is worse imo). Maybe we should open up a hostel/hotel to bring all these people to America and give them a chance to have a life. Being there and hearing what was said to you by your host family would make me feel very bitter Chan... very bitter.
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Post by Cake on Jun 21, 2008 19:23:42 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and when she found out he was in a wheelchair, the first thing she asked me was, "Is he rich?" And I was all like, "........what?" And then she immediately made the assumption that he's paying for my education, apartment, clothes, etc. When I told her that I don't use Andy's money, she just said, "Why?" I think, like in a lot of other countries, people assume that if you're with a dis guy then they MUST be loaded. Otherwise, what's the point, right? I think the money thing wasn't even about disabled or non disabled. It's just the way russian women think when it comes to "western" boyfriends. Boyfriends and husbands have to be rich, and as their women OF COURSE you use their money. Seriously. At least all the Russians I know think like that, and I know quite a bunch. Edited for typo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2008 19:37:28 GMT -5
You want to have a good time? Take a wheeler to an actual Chinese restaurant. Not the western Chinese places but a more traditional one. Its almost a conditional response to be spot on with the customer service but when you blow their comfort zone to sh*t?? lol Its so funny. Just bring your patience.
And women from the Eastern European countries? Some are complete throwbacks to the 1800s. She was asking if he was rich to gauge your "allowance". I shit you not.
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Post by matisse on Jun 21, 2008 19:45:17 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and when she found out he was in a wheelchair, the first thing she asked me was, "Is he rich?" And I was all like, "........what?" And then she immediately made the assumption that he's paying for my education, apartment, clothes, etc. When I told her that I don't use Andy's money, she just said, "Why?" I think, like in a lot of other countries, people assume that if you're with a dis guy then they MUST be loaded. Otherwise, what's the point, right? Well you can include this country......I think people are just not as open about it. It's not just wheelers, it applies to any hot chick and a seeming mismatch, like a dude who's short, old, fat, or ugly (or all of the above). So Chan, does this change your career plans?
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Post by natasha on Jun 21, 2008 22:59:59 GMT -5
Thats very true Matisse!!!! I was just thinking also about how in one of my classes they told us that in Ancient times Greeks and Romans used to killed the babies that would born with some physical defects.... they would make special baskets that were made to just trow those babies in the woods....the baskets were so common that u could get them in the markets as easy as getting eggs and ham!!!
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§cαrL£t
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Post by §cαrL£t on Jun 22, 2008 1:08:26 GMT -5
Good point Matisse. Americans do assume that there are ulterior motives, or dissatisfaction, in any mismatched marriage. My 9 year old cousin told me recently, "We saw this hot woman with an old ugly guy. You KNOW she's two timing him!'"
And Natasha, good point too. In The Republic, Plato proposed that in the ideal society "the offspring of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, will be put away in some mysterious, unknown place, as they should be."
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Post by Triassic on Jun 22, 2008 2:35:10 GMT -5
well, the ancient world was a pretty harrowing place just in general; considering that one could be captured and sold into slavery, or tortured, or whatever, for scarcely any reason...so it's not like it was just gimps who were treated like they were worthless.
as for modern times...i've heard the french don't have much love for us disabled folks, either.
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Post by Ouch on Jun 22, 2008 15:18:49 GMT -5
Unfortunately, even in this day and age...the United States is the one of the very few places in working for accessability and acceptance of disabled persons; at times something that is hard to believe. I'm not claiming other nations haven't made their efforts, but many that you would expect to be more tolerant, aware, and accessable just simply aren't. In the case of Russia, it seems quite apparent that the attitudes can be an obstacle (in defence, Russia really has only been a mostly-functional nation since 1991; the rebound from the Soviet Union/Cold War days was/is tough). Other places, I've heard that there is a lack of motivation perhaps, because disability is rarer, and oftentimes that nation is smaller.
I'd like to know how the Scandinavian nations treat their disabled citizens, they're kinda' in the middle (but kinda' isolated), if slightly biased to Eastern Europe, and often are unique in how they're governed...
...another key thing to consider is the simple fact of money - The U.S., Canada, etc. have more money they can devote to accessability, etc. then many of the suspect nations as well.
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