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Post by Inigo Montoya on Jun 23, 2012 7:04:39 GMT -5
Ok, so I kind of feel like a fraud posting on this because so many of you have posted a lot on the fiction site! I've only written 3 fairly involved stories (dev ones anyway, I love writing really surreal children's stories. So weird), with only a few characters in each, but honestly, I think the thing that irks me the most with writing is how much of yourself seeps in, without even realising it. How can it not? I agree with ej, for me it's qualities that I know I have in spades, or facets of myself that I only share with people I really love. But...I also use writing for exploration, as well...one of my characters is so totally me in 10 years, after about 2 glasses of wine (well, maybe with a bit more 'cynical whore' thrown in for good measure!). ;-D Hmmmmm.... WE have not seen these stories, have we? (She said selfishly and speculatively.) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 7:47:10 GMT -5
Ok, so I kind of feel like a fraud posting on this because so many of you have posted a lot on the fiction site! I've only written 3 fairly involved stories (dev ones anyway, I love writing really surreal children's stories. So weird) Your post made me feel a bit guilty Peony, since I also do feel a bit like a fraud around this kind of threads, lol. But I guess I feel a bit better knowing that I constantly write fiction - too bad it doesn't have any dev aspect so I could share - just like you  Well, just like the only character I created that dates a wheeler, I love everything that has to do with writing and my dream job would be being an editor for a publisher. I'm not an aspiring author, neither is she so here, I've given another example as to how 'I write myself in the story'  |
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Post by devogirl on Jun 23, 2012 10:17:29 GMT -5
Very interesting question Ximena! I must admit that in my giant historical tome, the heroine is a lot like me. I don't always do that; in my next novel I tried to make the girl pretty different.
It's something I've thought about a lot lately. Of course it's best to write about things you know well, and the best writing has a truth to it that can only come from lived experience. But you never want to cross the line into Mary-Sue territory. I think a lot of dev writing has some fantasy or wish-fulfillment aspect to it, so it can be a danger. Where do you draw the line?
But you all need to stop putting yourselves down. If you write, even for yourselves, you're not a fraud!
And we'd like to see it, if you haven't shared yet.
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Post by Peony on Jun 23, 2012 19:08:54 GMT -5
Hmmmmm.... WE have not seen these stories, have we? (She said selfishly and speculatively.) *Whistles absently/kicks at a rut in the ground* Your post made me feel a bit guilty Peony, since I also do feel a bit like a fraud around this kind of threads, lol. But I guess I feel a bit better knowing that I constantly write fiction - too bad it doesn't have any dev aspect so I could share - just like you Oh noes! Definitely don't feel bad! And yes Devogirl brings up the very salient point that I think a lot f people here do write for themselves, which I tend to forget, and definitely doesn't take anything away from the process of it, I guess. I have actually been meaning to type it up (I am slightly Amish, and like to hand write stuff where I can)...one day. I guess the first one is always the hardest to share? ;D |
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ej
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Post by ej on Jun 24, 2012 1:17:05 GMT -5
Oh, DEFINITELY so!! In my opinion |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 5:46:02 GMT -5
But you all need to stop putting yourselves down. If you write, even for yourselves, you're not a fraud! And we'd like to see it, if you haven't shared yet. Oh, I'm not really doing that; I just love stories and writing...and creativity so much that I'd have an opinion about it even if I would just be an avid reader. I just think I should write more. I do write for myself - the pleasure of writing and the pleasure of reading a story I like, but it does feel nice to 'show and tell'. Yeah, sharing is what keeps me doing it. If I know just one other person ill read and enjoy it, it's enough for me and it actually makes me write more (and faster! ). The problem is, and I guess here's a question for you guys, I can't write unless I'm totally 'in love' with the character. The guy. And that's why I always write by whim and not just because I have a story in my mind that I want out on paper. So...do you guys do that too? Also, it feels a bit silly admitting this, when I'm actually writing something, I'm completely lost in that story until it's done. Like...there's a movie going on in my head all the time when I'm alone with my thoughts. When I'm shopping, at the gym or even on my way to and from work, it's all I think about. I put myself in the female character's shoes and regardless of what I'm doing at the moment in RL, in my head there's a whole different world going on. Does everyone do that? Because I read some articles at Writer's Digest where they specifically said to write against mood. As in...give yourself x hr/day to write and respect that regardless of your mood. Apparently this is what 'real' writers do... |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 24, 2012 8:24:52 GMT -5
You guys are definitely writers!
It can be enormously hard to feel like a "real" writer no matter what you accomplish.
Cristabell, I am the same way when I'm writing something I love. It plays like a movie over and over and I think about it constantly. I feel as though the characters are there with me everywhere I go and everything I do.
I hear all the time about writing through tough times and writing every day no matter what and I'm not sure I agree.
It depends on what your goals are and it also depends on what you can accomplish.
Lately I've been a try to write every day person, but there have been times when I've given myself long breaks, when I've soaked in inspiration for a while. Those times are also important.
You can't always be pouring out, you need something coming in.
I also think the very best stories are those where the writer is in love with the guy character.
I don't write every day and yet I've written two novels (actually three if you count my first awful one!), about ten or more short stories, and a memoir of essays all before I was 30. So I don't think that writing everyday and being prolific necessarily have to go together.
Whatever I'm doing, it's working for me and I'm not going to let Writer's Digest tell me I'm not professional enough! lol.
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Post by janewheeler on Jun 24, 2012 8:56:16 GMT -5
That's definitely been hard for me -- I looooove writing Jeff, of course, because he's delicious. And to be quite honest, I base a lot of situations and emotions on a guy I used to date. (AB, and -- in my parlance -- SUCH a boy, being tough all the time and then suddenly letting his emotions spill through when you least expect it.) So I can let myself swirl real and imaginary things around fairly easily with him, but with Jules the boundaries are less clear. And I hate to say it, but I don't care as much about her. Jeff is the one who turns me on  I'm running into that right now because I'm realizing that this is a more solid piece (or will be, eventually!) than I'd originally thought, Now I have to treat her like a real live main character, or at least balance her better with Jeff. Sigh... But I'll say it again: this is the first completely original piece of fiction I've written in... geez, 15 years? I'm being really lax with myself on a lot of things because I have such a strong urge to stop myself and say, "That's not realistic," or "That's not good enough motivation." It's very easy to drag myself down trying to get something exactly right, when (for the most part) readers might not even notice or care. I can't tell you how many times I've read books where the wheeler hero just appears in the heroine's no-ramp house, no problem (I'm looking at you, Stranger In Town) or the guy is wearing old-style metal braces attached to loafers. Nope! And yet both of those authors got book deals and are very well respected. Mary Balogh freely admits that she's never even talked to a disabled person, yet she's known for writing romances with disabled characters! What gives? Okay, that was a digression. Still. It's a balance, and it's something I can go back and fix, so for the most part I am just sitting back and letting myself write and not be self-critical. It's been a really nice change -- and, I must say, rather successful, too |
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Post by Ximena on Jun 24, 2012 9:43:57 GMT -5
Phew - looks like I missed a lot in this post! Great discussion! OK - First - even if you only write for yourself, you should still consider yourself a writer! My soap is something I've written for probably 15 years for myself and sometimes that's all the writing I do - but it's still valuable because A) it gives me a way to release my emotions, etc. whatever I'm feeling at the moment B) it means I always have something to read (lol) and C) it's good practice for my other writing . Second - Crista, yes - I am totally like that. I am always "writing in my head" as I put it - most of the time my soap but often also whatever other project I'm working on. Most of the time if I'm quiet and distracted it's because I'm writing in my head, lol. Third - Jane, I think a LOT of writers suffer from the "editorial bug" - that little voice that sits on your shoulder that yells THIS IS CRAP! as you're writing. It's something I've personally struggeld with a lot because I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to my writing. But it's also something I've tried to get over. I try to remind myself that, as Hemmingway said, "THE FIRST DRAFT OF ANYTHING IS CRAP," and just WRITE - I can go back later and fix it. I know that there have been things I've written, thinking they sucked, only to come back to them later and say "wow, that's not bad after all!" - And I know with UnConventional, I'm going for the fast and dirty approach - get it all down and then go back and polish it. I already know there are a lot of revisions/changes I need to make, little details that got overlooked or whatnot, but I'm telling myself, don't go back, just keep chugging along, you can fix those later!! As for accuracy - I always try to do as much research as I can on a topic if I'm straying from something I'm not already familiar with. I usually start online and then branch out to books and experts whenever I can. It's always frustrating when you read something (or watch a film) and it's obvious the creator didn't do their research beforehand so that the experience becomes silly and/or unbelievable. That's one of the reasons (as I was talking to Peony about) - I've been doing crazy research for UnConventional because I'm writing about something I've never written about before and I want to make sure it's right - or as close as possible, anyway! Still, it is frustrating when you see books published where the author didn't do research and it went through anyway... I guess that's life,  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 10:13:37 GMT -5
Yes - research! Another aspect where I feel like I have OCD, along with my inclination for details. Jane- funny you mentioned the current choice of dev books. I can honestly say I couldn't really find anything entertaining - storywise. That whole 'The Write Man For Her' had a decent plot, but the guy was a bit unappealing to me. I guess it's safe to say that - at least for me - everything (everything that I've read, that is) that came from one of the posters from this board was a whole lot better than published authors (I'm putting Ruth in this category as well, even though she's also a published author). But I am very aware of the fact that I have certain preferences when it comes to fiction and Harlequin-type authors have a much wider audience in mind. (I bought 'A man like Mac', hardcover. I wanted to read it for a long time, but I'm sure it won't be as good as I think it will). That being said...Jane you mentioned ...and I have two comments here. First, I tend to write through the woman's voice, showing my passion and admiration and everything else FOR the guy through her. As in...he's the main character, but he's in the background. Everything that happens, happens to the woman, but in order to make the guy happy in the end. And with that in mind, I've always read Stts with Jules as the main character. All events are happening to her (it doesn't really have to do with the first person voice, I'd feel the same if you'd have a neutral storyteller), she's the...recipient, not Jeff. I just feel her voice stronger than his, even though we do know more about him than her. So are you sure *he* is the main character? On another note, this thread made me start re-writing 'Some Girls' (I keep mentioning it because it's the only dev thing I've written and will be for a while, unless my crush for Joel Brown grows even bigger and I'll actually use him as inspiration, since I've been wanting to do that for a long time) as a standalone story, without any connections to the TV show. I'm very curious to see how it turns out |
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Post by Ximena on Jun 24, 2012 10:29:01 GMT -5
Crista, I think Jane might be referring to the fact that the way I read SttS, Jeff feels like he's asking to be the main character, even though the way the story is set up (especially with the first-person narration from Jules POV) is suggesting she's the main character.
And good luck with your story !
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 24, 2012 20:59:40 GMT -5
I'm a fan of get the rough draft down, worry about research and details and accuracy in the second draft!
I much prefer revision to the first draft.
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Post by Ximena on Jun 24, 2012 21:27:23 GMT -5
I'm a fan of get the rough draft down, worry about research and details and accuracy in the second draft! I much prefer revision to the first draft. That's what I'm trying to do with UnCoventional... Fingers crossed! |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 25, 2012 7:36:04 GMT -5
The other thing to remember with research is that you'll never get a really solid answer. Every guy is different and every disability is different, so once you've learned a lot about disability, you have to kind of let it soak in and then go with what is natural for your character.
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Post by janewheeler on Jun 25, 2012 7:55:22 GMT -5
Exactly, Ruth. I've gotten a little help from reading a blog I found, but that person recovered quite a bit more mobility than Jeff. And now I've got the problem of trying to describe Jeff's braces when there are SO many kinds out there -- but a lot of people with Jeff's level of impairment (which I haven't specified, either! Probably L1ish?) would still likely choose a wheelchair over braces as their everyday mode.
So this is definitely a spot where I want to be on top of my research... but I have to just go it alone after all.
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Well, just like the only character I created that dates a wheeler, I love everything that has to do with writing and my dream job would be being an editor for a publisher. I'm not an aspiring author, neither is she so here, I've given another example as to how 'I write myself in the story' 
