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Post by Ximena on Jun 25, 2012 9:05:39 GMT -5
The other thing to remember with research is that you'll never get a really solid answer. Every guy is different and every disability is different, so once you've learned a lot about disability, you have to kind of let it soak in and then go with what is natural for your character. Yes! Especially with the disease I'm working with now there is SUCH variability. I know what I want for the character it's just a matter now of making sure it's accurate as possible.  |
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Post by devogirl on Jun 25, 2012 9:08:29 GMT -5
Wow, such a great conversation! I agree with so much of what has been said...
I am exactly like that too with seeing my story unfold in my head like a movie. It's fun to have it with me so much when I'm really inspired. But more than that I think it can help a lot when writing--I try to describe what I'm seeing in as much detail as I can. I think it helps keep the writing vivid and not boring.
I also feel like what Ximena has said so often, that the characters are like real people who tell me what they are like and what they are going to do. It's great to feel like you are just the channel. But it's important to be on your guard against cliche when that happens--sometimes something feels "natural" or like it just has to happen in the plot because it's so well-worn and familiar.
I agree about research too. HATE for the lazy non-dev writers who don't bother to look up the first detail about disability. The editors know even less, and the readers don't care. It makes me so angry to see the reviews for those books talking about how great the depiction of disability is, when it's just WRONG.
On the other hand, true, research can only take you so far. Some of the guys I have met do all kinds of things they're not supposed to do. I knew a t-12 para who didn't have any kind of adaptive equipment in his bathroom, nothing for the toilet seat and just a regular claw-foot bathtub. His "ramp" at the front door was a loose piece of plywood. The cushion on his chair was all ratty and flat. Oh and he knew nothing at all about SCI, even I knew more than he did. But he was 20 years post injury and seemed to get along just fine. And all the blind guys I have known have been inveterate slobs--so much for keeping everything orderly. I put that detail in one of my stories because I thought it was so funny. Sometimes people act against their own best interests, and not every disabled person is an expert on his/her condition.
Oh yeah, and that advice about writing every day, whatever. Unless you're trying to meet a deadline or something, don't bother. If you're just writing for yourself, there's no reason to do it if it isn't fun.
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Post by Ximena on Jun 25, 2012 10:25:01 GMT -5
On the other hand, true, research can only take you so far. Some of the guys I have met do all kinds of things they're not supposed to do. I knew a t-12 para who didn't have any kind of adaptive equipment in his bathroom, nothing for the toilet seat and just a regular claw-foot bathtub. His "ramp" at the front door was a loose piece of plywood. The cushion on his chair was all ratty and flat. Oh and he knew nothing at all about SCI, even I knew more than he did. But he was 20 years post injury and seemed to get along just fine. And all the blind guys I have known have been inveterate slobs--so much for keeping everything orderly. I put that detail in one of my stories because I thought it was so funny. Sometimes people act against their own best interests, and not every disabled person is an expert on his/her condition. LOL. Yes - don't want to forget that everyone is different and everyone has their own personalities ! And that's definitely true, especially about best interests... a lot of people can be stubborn! My FIL has a really rare lung condition and he really should be on oxygen all the time, but he's stubborn and doesn't use it, then feels bad and gets grumpy and complains that he doesn't feel good. It's like, you know how to fix that! Why don't you do it?? So that definitely makes sense. And I don't think your characters need to KNOW everything but I think it's definitely helpful if YOU as the author know it - even if your SCI guy doesn't give a dissertation the neuropathology of SCI, if you as a writer understand it (As well as you can, anyway) then that will come through in your writing.  I actually have a problem because of my medical training, I feel really, really comfortable with complex medical terminology, and I sometimes have to remind myself that not everyone is and not everyone would use the words that I feel perfectly natural using, lol! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 11:32:34 GMT -5
LOL. Yes - don't want to forget that everyone is different and everyone has their own personalities ! Well, since we're here  I know about diversity and 'no two injuries are the same' so...would it be ok to just take creative license and write up what suits your character best, from what you read about the majority? Or just take all the characteristics you want him to have, even though they don't apply to the majority and are something like...10% cases? Aka, from my understanding, about 90% of the T12s would have an impaired sexual function? Would it be cheating if I'd go with the 10% or is my info not as accurate as I think? |
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Post by Ximena on Jun 25, 2012 11:47:11 GMT -5
I definitely know what you're saying, Crista - I'd say, if it's possible, then go for it. You could maybe make a note of it somehow in the text so the reader knows you know what you're talking about. I think as long as you're not stretching the boundaries of believability too far, and if you've shown your reader you know what you're talking about, then they'll trust you when you do do something that might be atypical. One thing you learn in medicine is that there are no absolutes. Everyone's body is different, everyone responds differently, everyone heals differently. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 25, 2012 19:44:39 GMT -5
Advantage of publishing with me: an editor who does know and care about realities of disability! The parts that bother me with books that have not done research is that often the author will take an easy way out of an issue (such as never mentioning how the hero managed to get into the heroine's house or any number of other problems) and they've missed an opportunity to really deepen the story. Showing a realistic view of the character finding a solution to that problem tells us a lot about the character and who he is. It also gets us more deeply invested in the world the author is building. On the other hand, realism needs to be a bit balanced because these are fantasy-based stories somewhat. I'm reading a book now that was written by a disabled guy and the realism is making it surprisingly boring and just a bit depressing. |
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Post by Ximena on Jun 25, 2012 20:52:50 GMT -5
True - fiction is supposed to be verisimilitude - resembling reality, but not necessarily reality.
Curious, though, Ruth - what book are you reading right now?
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Post by devogirl on Jun 26, 2012 9:06:42 GMT -5
Well, since we're here I know about diversity and 'no two injuries are the same' so...would it be ok to just take creative license and write up what suits your character best, from what you read about the majority? Or just take all the characteristics you want him to have, even though they don't apply to the majority and are something like...10% cases? Aka, from my understanding, about 90% of the T12s would have an impaired sexual function? Would it be cheating if I'd go with the 10% or is my info not as accurate as I think? Wellllll.......yes, every SCI is different. I'm not a doctor but I thought it's closer to 99.9%. No matter how low the injury, even at the S level, there will impaired function and sensation. Yes, you can take creative license and write what you want. BUT as a dev I feel like writing fiction with SCI + unimpaired sex function is a huge cop-out. If you don't want that to figure in the story, give him some other kind of disability. Personally, I prefer the fiction that deals with that part of SCI without flinching, and has super hot sex scenes even if the guy can't get hard or ejaculate. IMHO that's not only part of getting the details right, but also about being more sex positive and open to different kinds of sexual experiences. Sex doesn't have to just be the guy pounding the girl (like in so many cheezy romances). A sex scene that's not centered on the penis would be, well, maybe not revolutionary but at least important. Sorry to be critical, but it's something I feel strongly about. |
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Post by Ximena on Jun 26, 2012 9:10:57 GMT -5
One thing you have to keep in mind, also, related to DG's post, is that male sexual function actually has two different pathways - there's the psychogenic part (i.e., when a guy sees a hot girl - or guy if he's gay - and gets hard) and then the reflex part (i.e., when the penis is touched it gets hard) - so that's also something to consider.
Depending on injury level and completeness, a guy with SCI can get hard (especially via reflex) - but ability to maintain the erection may be compromised, and even if he can achieve fairly normal erections, nearly all guys with SCI fail to ejaculate through normal means.
I do agree with DG on the point of if you want to avoid that issue, there are a lot of other disabilities to explore that don't affect sexual function. And it also can be fun to see new explorations of sexuality as well.
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 26, 2012 9:20:29 GMT -5
Totally agree, DG!
Ximena, I'm going to be doing an author interview, so that should be enlightening, but it's called Lover's Lame.
It reads like a memoir, though it's billed as fiction. The love story part hasn't started yet, it's been almost entirely about how impossible it is for people with disabilities to get jobs. An important subject for sure, but there's not much *story* there and the main character just comes across as pathetic to me. I don't really care if he gets the girl or not!
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Post by Ximena on Jun 26, 2012 9:58:10 GMT -5
Interesting, Ruth. I do know some of the people with disabilities I follow on twitter are always complaining about how they can't get a job - and not for lack of trying, either.
It looks like he worked to help those with disabilities find jobs and is primarily a non-fiction writer, so that might have a lot to do with it. I'm interested in reading the interview with him!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 11:42:28 GMT -5
Well, since we're here I know about diversity and 'no two injuries are the same' so...would it be ok to just take creative license and write up what suits your character best, from what you read about the majority? Or just take all the characteristics you want him to have, even though they don't apply to the majority and are something like...10% cases? Aka, from my understanding, about 90% of the T12s would have an impaired sexual function? Would it be cheating if I'd go with the 10% or is my info not as accurate as I think? Wellllll.......yes, every SCI is different. I'm not a doctor but I thought it's closer to 99.9%. No matter how low the injury, even at the S level, there will impaired function and sensation. Yes, you can take creative license and write what you want. BUT as a dev I feel like writing fiction with SCI + unimpaired sex function is a huge cop-out. If you don't want that to figure in the story, give him some other kind of disability. Personally, I prefer the fiction that deals with that part of SCI without flinching, and has super hot sex scenes even if the guy can't get hard or ejaculate. IMHO that's not only part of getting the details right, but also about being more sex positive and open to different kinds of sexual experiences. Sex doesn't have to just be the guy pounding the girl (like in so many cheezy romances). A sex scene that's not centered on the penis would be, well, maybe not revolutionary but at least important. Sorry to be critical, but it's something I feel strongly about. Oh, no, don't get me wrong, when I said impaired, I meant nothing, like nothing works naturally (I know about the type of erections, as Ximena pointed out, sorry, I think I should've been more specific). I actually meant without the use of medication and simply as a reflex (as possible with higher injuries). Rephrasing, it's would be something like 90% of T12 can't have a reflex erection and are able to get hard only with the help of injections/pills, etc (and sometimes not even those work), but a rough 10% can. And I'm only referring to the getting hard part, without including ejaculation and sensation, which from my understanding are seriously impaired regardless of injury level. Is this better? Sorry about the confusion  |
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Post by devogirl on Jun 27, 2012 7:39:55 GMT -5
Oh, ok then! Sorry to be critical As a dev I expected you would take a more informed approach, so thanks for clarifying. Not that you need my approval, haha. Among the SCI guys I have met, the guy with an incomplete injury and pretty good sensation said it still doesn't feel the same, not nearly as intense as before his injury. He was a low quad, and could ejaculate occasionally with GREAT effort. But it wasn't an orgasm, it was just a mechanical reflex. He just did it for the psychological aspect although ultimately I think his fixation on making it happen was unhealthy. The paras I met could not do that, which matches up with what you said. I still would like to read a SCI sex scene that's not focused on the penis. |
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Post by ruthmadison on Jun 27, 2012 8:41:24 GMT -5
I still would like to read a SCI sex scene that's not focused on the penis. Challenge accepted! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 11:15:27 GMT -5
I still would like to read a SCI sex scene that's not focused on the penis. Challenge accepted! Yuhuu! I smell a new story, Ruth? DG, I have no idea why I assumed everyone sees things like I do. I cannot write a sex scene at all, so everything would almost be in my head...I guess. The thing is, I'm into paras and the lowest the better, but I know that below T10 it gets trickier....eh, we'll see |
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I know about diversity and 'no two injuries are the same' so...would it be ok to just take creative license and write up what suits your character best, from what you read about the majority? Or just take all the characteristics you want him to have, even though they don't apply to the majority and are something like...10% cases? Aka, from my understanding, about 90% of the T12s would have an impaired sexual function? Would it be cheating if I'd go with the 10% or is my info not as accurate as I think? 