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Post by Triassic on May 9, 2007 10:41:20 GMT -5
Well, Claire, I'm pretty surprised that you scoot on the floor. That makes it more 'real' I'd say.
But why is that hard to admit?
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1femur
Junior Member
Alive, not kickin' !
Posts: 86
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Post by 1femur on May 9, 2007 14:00:05 GMT -5
I just don't get it !! It kinda offends me, like its a choice ? I was shooting pool at a tavern on Halloween and a cute chick rolled in, in a sports chair. Turns out it was her "costume", as she got out of it to shoot a game. I thought that was a poor choice for her to use the wheelchair as her costume. But I'm believe in live and let live, so I just laughed, since it was comical...
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Post by Claire on May 9, 2007 21:28:15 GMT -5
But why is that hard to admit? It's hard to admit because it's embarrassing, humiliating, and, well, people find it disturbing. It was mostly childhood behavior, and more rarely adult behavior before I had a chair, but only on REALLY crazily bad days.
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Post by Ray T on May 10, 2007 16:15:45 GMT -5
There you go, Ray. There is a conference on BIID scheduled for September at the U. of Missouri (I think). I'll put your name down to conduct a workshop. you think people would go for it?
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Post by Ray T on May 10, 2007 16:23:36 GMT -5
as for the work shop it would have to be more like a 6 weeks course the things you have to lear are so many it takes years to learn them all I am 4 yasr post sci and I am still learning new things... lol now for a agenda and a price to charge lol
see if you can come up with a list of things that we need to teach...
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Post by Ouch on May 10, 2007 19:06:14 GMT -5
I think that what Claire admitted was hard for her, perhaps because it is like identifying and acknowledging part of a disability.
Some wheelers can't [or lose the ability to] use their...'gear'...I'm sure to them it can be embarassing to admit that...I think that's a similar situation to the above.
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Post by Claire on May 10, 2007 19:14:15 GMT -5
Hehe, Ray, I'd go for it! How much are you charging? I want to know what to do when you get stuck in snow and just spinning your wheels. (of course working on that implies that there would be snow available!) And how to exit a doorway with a change in level *down* while popping a wheelie one-handed and holding the door open with the other hand. In those situations I can get in the building myself but not back out. And how to wheel up a ramp with stuff on your lap without all the stuff falling off. And how to get back in my chair after I fall out of it, without cheating. You might have to provide chairs to the chairless wannabe pretenders.
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Post by Ouch on May 10, 2007 19:20:08 GMT -5
The former isn't too difficult actually, gravity helps...the stuff in lap...well that really depends on the stuff, and the physiology of the person...
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Post by Claire on May 10, 2007 19:48:33 GMT -5
You're right, windrider, and thanks. Wheelers here have discussed the more difficult and private aspects of their disability right here on this very thread, openly and frankly. I figure I could at the very least do the same in response to Triassic's question. But something is bugging me. "0109" tells me that I'm "mentally disabled" (I'm fine with that, although I generally use the term "mentally ill"). Assuming that 0109 is either a wheeler or a devo, why is it OK to tell a mentally disabled person that their disability is disturbing, when they would never dream of saying that to someone with a PHYSICAL disability? I admit, I don't really get that at all. It seems hypocritical for a wheeler (or devo) to say that someone else's disability is bad while implying that their type of disability is just fine. Am I the only one to see it that way?
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Post by Interloper on May 11, 2007 23:17:10 GMT -5
OK, fine; but what do paralyzed lower limbs MEAN TO YOU? Just freestyle here, go wild, let's try to dig in; What are thin, paralytic legs 'saying' to you? Don't just tell me you Really Like Them, or that you Just Feel Right when pretending, go deeper here... I appreciate that guests are allowed to post, here. Triassic, here's how I relate to this topic--and I'm a dev, not a pretender or wannabe: Speaking just for myself, I feel weak in the following attributes that I think my legs symbolize: 1) Authority, stature, confidence: "standing tall," "two legs to stand on." Often I am really alone--without "a leg to stand on"--in singlehandedly undertaking unpopular battles, for instance, with school authorities who are making life hard for the children. I know I'll get beaten, and I always take it very hard, but I can't yield just on that account. 2) Impulse for adventure, exploration: I am too anxious about getting into trouble or getting lost to enjoy much exploration, unless I have a confident partner. 3) Joy, fun: I can't seem to enjoy popular entertainments very much. I especially can't understand why people ever want to dance--it seems so frivolous, like an alien ritual. I like to do research, especially historical research, and people think that's weird. 4) A sense of belonging, feeling like one of the crowd. 5) Volition: I lack "get up and go" unless I am motivated by someone I care about, or by a sense of responsibility. The net feeling is recurrent despondency and loneliness, which often tends to make my legs feel weak and dull, not truly a part of me. I have the sense that I am deadening myself, in order to comply with an internalized set of injunctions about who I'm "supposed" to be: undemanding, unobtrustive, compliant, self contained--like Jane Eyre. In that state, it seems an ordeal to wake up my legs and make them work for me. That is when the thought of wheeling appears in my mind and seems momentarily attractive. It can just as quickly convert to the thought of meeting the sensitive wheeler man of my dreams. (Of course, he always understands me and embraces my eccentricities.) And isn't Jane Eyre the original dev? I'm also aware of imagining that wheeling would be an outward manifestation of my internal struggle--and in that case, might legitimize my unpopularity for me. It would be like saying, "See how fettered and burdened I am? And yet, I press on, so I am worthy of your admiration. I'm not really a weirdo outsider--I'm actually quite an asset to society." But such "morbid ideation" (as the shrinks call it) makes me disgusted with myself. Usually, if I make myself get up and go for a walk, I start to feel more normal, and those thoughts fade. Legs also express responsibility, as in "stand on your own two feet." When I'm mired in despondency, I wish to be free of the responsibility to strive to fit in and act "normal," and the mental image of wheeling seems to offer an out. I suppose I imagine that I could then blame the disability for my outsider status and no longer have to feel distress and shame about being, in fact, an oddball. I could sit down and coast on the oddness of my disability. And no politically correct person would dare blame me for a physical disability--nor, probably, for eccentricities that might seem to result from it. That is where DevoGirl's comment about a modern social construct fits in, because historically disabled people have been reviled. As for other people, I suspect if any relevant symbolism were consciously accessible, they would not be suffering from obsessive notions. It's axiomatic that obsessions are a cover for disowned thoughts and feelings.
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Post by Triassic on May 12, 2007 6:40:34 GMT -5
Thanks Interloper; yeah...that's interesting. And relevant. I think there IS a sort of free-floating goodwill toward disabled folks-at least those who are presentable, uncomplaining/upbeat and at least a little 'productive'. And I think some disabed do groove on this, perhaps unconsciously; they swing with it.
I'd say you DO have wannabe tendancies, tho...obviously. Claire's comment on the overlap of devness and BIID was insightful, I believe.
Funny, what you say about dancing; to me it seems TOTALLY rational, eminently sensible, to dance. I've always wished I could do it.
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Post by devogirl on May 12, 2007 19:06:26 GMT -5
Historically some people who we would now call disabled were reviled, others were considered special, or holy. Mythology in various cultures is full of characters who are are blind or lame but who have magical powers, including some whose "disability" is a mark of godhood, eg the Fisher King. And it wasn't very long ago that these attitudes were common, for instance look at the carnival sideshow. On the one hand, many people who became sideshow attractions were exploited and even abused. But on the other hand, a few of them did manage to take control of their own images, presented themselves as "extraordinary" and developed successful careers as entertainers. One way they made money in the late 1800s/early 1900s was by selling small pictures of themselves, which were very popular, and many people collected them (this in the days before baseball cards). The sideshow is an example of how disabled people were reviled and feared, as well as admired and idolized, all at once. I think it's fascinating, although I'm glad those days are over. Being idolized is as alienating as being reviled--just ask Britney Spears.
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Post by Claire on May 13, 2007 7:28:14 GMT -5
Tri, I dug up my statistics for you. In 1996, an adjunct professor of social work at Loma Linda University in California did his doctoral dissertation on acromotophilia (the clinical term for "devoteeism", although I hate the word). In a survey of 50 devotees, 25% of them also desired the disability they were attracted to. This information is found on page 213 of the book Better Than Well: American Medicine Meets the American Dream by Dr. Carl Elliott. ( www.amazon.com/Better-Than-Well-American-Medicine/dp/0393325652/ ) There's a whole chapter devoted to BIID in this book, and he talks about devoteeism as well. Desire for amputation of a limb: paraphilia, psychosis, or a new type of identity disorder ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15997612&dopt=Abstract ) was a study conducted in 2004 by Dr. Michael B. First of the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry. (He concluded that it was an identity disorder, btw). In a study of 52 subjects, 87% of people desiring amputation reported being sexually attracted to amputees. The studies tend to always focus on amputees since the vast majority of transabled people desire amputation. Dr. First is now preparing a new study aimed at people desiring paralysis, blindness and other disabilities, and I’m going to participate in it. I found Interloper's post interesting and very honest, and I would agree that all these feelings about legs/walking certainly indicate some transabled tendencies. I can't relate much to it though. People attribute their transability to different psychological reasoning in an attempt to try to understand these strange desires. I myself did for a long time, until I realized that as much sense as my reasoning made, my transabled feelings went back farther than the events that I was trying to attribute them to. But it’s been a part of me for so long that it does, indeed, have psychological aspects. I just don’t believe those are the root cause. It’s either neurological, or if it’s psychological it goes back to very early childhood, the preschool ages, 3 to 6 mostly. But what clinches it for me that it is INDEED neurological is psychology’s total inability to deal with it. If it was as simple as “need for attention” or “escape from responsibility” then it seems like therapy would be able to address it. I don't single-handedly undertake unpopular battles (contrary to what it may look like on this forum!). On the other hand, I have a great impulse for adventure. I've spent an entire summer backpacking around Europe alone, for example. But probably my biggest adventure was three days in a wheelchair (alone), never having gone through rehab or wheeling any more than around my office, and being forced to confront changes in level, steep ramps, heavy doors, and other obstacles with no training. I see the wheelchair as an adventure in itself, and not as an excuse not to have to confront adventure. I like to dance. I am a bit of an introvert but I feel more confident with others when in my chair – the chair’s not an excuse for my not feeling part of the crowd, it helps me feel more confident about myself in the crowd. And I don’t see being in a wheelchair as somehow releasing me from responsibility; quite the contrary, actually. In fact Interloper’s post seemed to have an overall negative view of disability (ex: disabled people are unpopular and don’t have to take care of responsibilities) that makes me uncomfortable.
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Post by devogirl on May 13, 2007 16:07:03 GMT -5
I think there IS a sort of free-floating goodwill toward disabled folks-at least those who are presentable, uncomplaining/upbeat and at least a little 'productive'. Well, yes, but this is equally true for everyone, able-bodied as well. Our culture encourages, or even demands, perpetual cheerfulness and productivity. Just look at how obsessed we are with happiness and work. People who are deemed to be perpetual complainers, melancholic, or "downers" are shunned. As for work, what matters is less objective utility than the appearance of effort and busy-ness, even if it's not directly related to making money. I hear your frustration at the restrictive ideal persona for a disabled person, but it's not just you, we all are subject to those particular expectations.
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Post by matisse on May 13, 2007 16:52:16 GMT -5
I hear your frustration at the restrictive ideal persona for a disabled person, but it's not just you, we all are subject to those particular expectations. True, but wheelers get it more in both extremes. I am generally easygoing and cheerful (not to mention smart), but as a wheeler I have received far more attention from complete strangers than I ever did before. It's not even close. (Although the reverse is true for women with a romantic/sexual interest; I used to get a lot more of that than now, and it's not even close) And wheelers who are angry, I suspect, get far more negative attention and feelings than the random jerk.
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