New member saying hello

[E]

cake said:

Um...yeah so much about perfect timing.

E, I totally agree with you - except the last part of your post, because
obscure, I believe you're right, too.

I'll ask a provocative question now (and it's provocative on purpose):
Why is lying such a bad thing?

Because it hurts people, destroys trust, and leads to other deception.

[E]

obscure said:

As far as I'm concerned, we each tell ourselves lies every day as a way of making the world around us more bearable.

While that sounds quite deep, intellectual, and profound... I really don't. I'm pleased with the reality that is my life. I have no need to wear rose-colored glasses.

[obscure]

Well smell you, Nancy Drew.

I'm not sure why you feel your personal interactions with the world should be everyone's, however.

[E]

obscure said:

Well smell you, Nancy Drew.

I'm not sure why you feel your personal interactions with the world should be everyone's, however.

I don't. However, you did say "we each"... sort of implying that the way you felt was everyone's, no? That didn't really apply to me.

[obscure]

I still stand by my statement. However, I'm a little tired to get into a philosophical debate on just what constitutes "reality"' tonight, and I still have half a paper for my psychology class to write so I'm afraid my elaboration will have to wait for another time.

[Triassic]

I just have to ask; where's the harm? What really truly is the big deal if .002% of the population likes to roll around in a w/c when they don't physically need to? If I knew someone personally for a year or two-a wheeler-and later found out they had no physical disability...I would'nt care! How would that harm me?

If many people were into this quirk than yes, there could be a problem; but the number is so vanishingly small...

When you get right down to, walking is a personal choice. Strictly speaking no one HAS to walk if they don't want to. It's just an option that is so utterly, overwhelmingly popular-like, say, eating solid food-that alternatives are ASSUMED to be nonviable choices.

[Claire]

The thing is, if you accept BIID as a valid mental illness, then how is someone's psychological need to wheel less valid than someone's physical need to wheel? Is it better, more real, more valid, more honest, to be physically disabled than mentally disabled? If you deny a BIID sufferer the right to pretend, you're imposing a heirarchy of disability in which certain disabilities are better and more deserving than others. And, you're denying people with certain disabilities the only known therapy available. It would be nice if we could pretend in the open without having to lie, but the world isn't ready for that, is it?

[Claire]

obscure said:

I don't think I have ever in my life come across another female SCI wannabe who also identifies herself as a devotee. It's an experience that I've been waiting for for such a long period of time to just meet you and have the opportunity to hear your side of things. It truly makes me feel less alone for one of the first times in my life.

It's a first for me too. We have much to discuss!

[Jenny too lazy to log in]

Triassic, you rock.

[Cake]

Triassic said:

I just have to ask; where's the harm? What really truly is the big deal if .002% of the population likes to roll around in a w/c when they don't physically need to? If I knew someone personally for a year or two-a wheeler-and later found out they had no physical disability...I would'nt care! How would that harm me?

If many people were into this quirk than yes, there could be a problem; but the number is so vanishingly small...

When you get right down to, walking is a personal choice. Strictly speaking no one HAS to walk if they don't want to. It's just an option that is so utterly, overwhelmingly popular-like, say, eating solid food-that alternatives are ASSUMED to be nonviable choices.

My thoughts exactly. Nobody HAS to do anything, technically. Who set the rules? Who sais they have to be followed? I know this is a difficult question, because yes, some rules we definitely need. The rule not to kill, only to name the most extreme example. But there are also rules I don't understand, where I don't quite get why the non-following should hurt.
For me this has nothing to do with rose-colored glasses. It's just another way of perception.

[E]

Wheeling about in lieu of walking is not the "wearing rose-colored glasses," but lying to one's self is.

Triassic said:

I just have to ask; where's the harm? What really truly is the big deal if .002% of the population likes to roll around in a w/c when they don't physically need to?

Triassic said:

When you get right down to, walking is a personal choice. Strictly speaking no one HAS to walk if they don't want to. It's just an option that is so utterly, overwhelmingly popular-like, say, eating solid food-that alternatives are ASSUMED to be nonviable choices.

There's a difference between wheeling about because you'd rather not walk, and making sure people know that, then wheeling about and telling people what level your injury is at when asked.

Triassic said:

If I knew someone personally for a year or two-a wheeler-and later found out they had no physical disability...I would'nt care! How would that harm me?

If many people were into this quirk than yes, there could be a problem; but the number is so vanishingly small...

Are you serious? It wouldn't bother you? That's really strange. If I knew someone for a couple years and we became friends, I'd have a hard time eventually finding out that there's been an ongoing, continual betrayal of trust about such a major thing. HOWEVER, if that person was upfront from the beginning, I'd be fine. If I asked why they're in a chair, and they said, "I suffer from BIID," we're totally cool. I get it. But if I ask and they tell me about their car accident and say they're a c# complete, and I am allowed to go on thinking this throughout the course of our relationship, I'm going to be hurt if I ever find out. On the same token, if I asked what someone did for a living, if she told me she was an architect, and I thought for a year she was an architect, and I eventually discovered that she was a waitress, I'd be upset.

Is the issue having a major impact on the world, Triassic? Nope. But it may have a major impact on one person's world, and that can be just as important.

[E]

claire said:

It would be nice if we could pretend in the open without having to lie, but the world isn't ready for that, is it?

I think you could. If asked, you could tell the truth. Really, if everyone did, there would be more knowledge and, in turn, understanding about BIID in the world. Most people are only understanding toward issues they've been in contact with. You could spark the light of exposure on a problem kept in the dark.

[obscure]

Right, because that "light of exposure" was handled really well by the individuals in this forum.

[Jocker]

claire said:

The thing is, if you accept BIID as a valid mental illness, then how is someone's psychological need to wheel less valid than someone's physical need to wheel? Is it better, more real, more valid, more honest, to be physically disabled than mentally disabled? If you deny a BIID sufferer the right to pretend, you're imposing a hierarchy of disability in which certain disabilities are better and more deserving than others. And, you're denying people with certain disabilities the only known therapy available. It would be nice if we could pretend in the open without having to lie, but the world isn't ready for that, is it?

I don't think there is a hierarchy of disability imposed. The difficulty that I think most physically disabled persons' have is not being able to wrap their minds around the reasons why a person wants to put themselves in the same position?

Being a quad/para is not just not having your ability to walk taken away. It's not just about having your legs bound and wheeling in a chair. It's what comes along with it. Speaking from my own experience. You're body basically goes into shock when one is first injured... nothing works... and by nothing I mean organs, limbs, mind. Having your legs not being able to work is almost the easy part to deal with, when you need help with just the minuscule of tasks, weather it be eating, getting in/out of bed or going to the bathroom. You basically must be helped with everything. The work that is achieved in gaining the independence to do those things on your own or at least as many things that you can, is what makes a physically challenged person proud.

I am not trying to say the psychological disability that a pretender/wannabe has is stronger than physical disability. How do you actually measure that? And I'm not here to discount it. I do though want to try to advance the discourse of those of us who are physically disabled. By doing so I think the wannabe pretender may be able to better understand the disability that they are trying to emulate. As well as understand any ill feelings that some may have toward a wannabe/pretender. I hope this helps.

[Claire]

jocker said:

I don't think there is a hierarchy of disability imposed. The difficulty that I think most physically disabled persons' have is not being able to wrap their minds around the reasons why a person wants to put themselves in the same position?

You know, that's such a good question and there's just no good answer to it. If I don't know why myself, have no clue whatsoever, how can I help anyone else understand? It just IS. The question of what is so much easier to answer than why. Why? Why anything? It's an illness.

jocker said:

I am not trying to say the psychological disability that a pretender/wannabe has is stronger than physical disability. How do you actually measure that?

You don't measure it. I'm just saying, if it's "ok" for someone to have an SCI then it's "ok" for someone to have BIID. And for everyone to deal with their issues in the best way they know how.

jocker said:

I do though want to try to advance the discourse of those of us who are physically disabled. By doing so I think the wannabe pretender may be able to better understand the disability that they are trying to emulate. As well as understand any ill feelings that some may have toward a wannabe/pretender. I hope this helps.

That does help, and it's appreciated. Certainly better understanding of disability is what we all want.

The problem with BIID is that you can't rationalize it away. You can't say "it's not all fun and games" and have the BIID magically disappear. People having ill feelings towards us won't change our mind - but it will hurt our feelings. Because it's not a choice we made. We were either born with it, or it was imprinted on us in very early childhood. It's not something we have much control over.

And it's not about wanting attention, because we'd rather be alone and paralyzed than AB with all the positive attention in the world. In fact, I've spent some time in a chair in public and most of the attention I got was the kind of attention I didn't care for, and despite this, the whole experience only confirmed that this is indeed what I desire.

And it's not some elaborate bid for better parking spaces.