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Post by Dr. BiPAP Sachin on Mar 20, 2020 13:06:26 GMT -5
I feel at moments like seeing the shark in the ocean. Screaming "shark, shark", but people keep surfing on waves, enjoying and not giving a damn for warnings. The difference is that by surfing you jeopardize your life only, but acting irresponsible when it comes to this, you bring many others in potential danger, too. I am not sure if any government is to blame. I'd like to believe they are all concerned for well being of their citizens and bringing decisions that they THINK is the best at the given moment. But the thing is, this is something that was not experienced before. The sad truth is many of them, governments, advisors, scientists, as many of us, too, were in denial "It's happening somewhere there, it could never happen to us, we are different". But it seems, for once, we are all the same, equally fragile in front of this shit. This is exactly what I find VERY concerning and frustrating.
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Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 16:57:03 GMT -5
It's not he-said she-said. What the pro-tRump wrote to the Post is not mutually exclusive with tRump firing the pandemic team. People were either fired or not. He doesn't dispute they were fired. abovethelaw.com/2020/03/donald-trump-didnt-disband-pandemic-team-he-did-far-worse/tRump himself has been on video trying to justify the firings, something he would never do if no one had been fired. He said we could just rehire as-needed and didn't need them hanging around. Snopes has also found it to be true. This issue is that in epidemics like this, the preexisting US regulation dictates that the CDC create The CDC is part of the Executive Branch. tRump is in charge of the Executive Branch. What he is doing now to cut red tape, he could have done a lot earlier. If he had taken it seriously instead of calling the sounding of the alarms a hoax and having all the FOX zombies follow suit. His repeated lies about the availability of testing didn't help, and the stock market predictably ignored him. He took it seriously only after his beloved stock market grabbed his balls and squeezed hard. Now he's all-in because his re-election is on the line. But the economy isn't going to right itself until we get a handle on it, and we aren't going to do that without widespread availability of testing. tRump's refusal to acknowledge the problem earlier is going to result in unnecessary deaths and an unnecessarily deep recession. And yet his followers are still kinda holding on to the hoax thing.
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Post by devogirl on Mar 20, 2020 19:55:45 GMT -5
I agree with Matisse, the lack of preparation and widespread testing is a disgrace. It was preventable and has absolutely made things worse. In this interview with people working in public health responsible for testing, they are clearly unhappy and frustrated with how it all went down. The CDC also denied permission to test to researchers in Seattle who were seeing the first evidence of cases in January, and widespread uncontrolled transmission followed.
It's also not true that nothing could be done to mitigate the transmission levels we are seeing now. Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan have all done a very good job of containment, despite hosting thousands of tourists from Wuhan over Chinese New Year at the end of January when the virus began to spread. Mass quarantine of the entire city is not the only option. Contact tracing and targeted quarantine of exposed individuals is much more effective than trying to keep everyone home, especially in early stages before widespread transmission starts. While those countries are small, the measures they are using could be implemented in the US at the local level, if state and city governments had been given directives.
It's also not just about testing. Many hospitals in the US have not prepared their staff or provided sufficient protective equipment. Singapore has a national strategic stockpile of masks--why doesn't the US? This is what happens when public health decisions are made by politicians, not epidemiologists.
What the federal government should be doing now is acting faster to save the economy, but that's not happening either because we are so hung up on the idea that even one person who is "undeserving" might get a 1k check. Sorry to be so negative but it's very frustrating to watch this happen. It really, truly did not have to be this way.
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Post by mike on Mar 20, 2020 20:49:00 GMT -5
Here is something to consider: we actually had advance warning that the Fed's are bad at handling emergency situations. Consider how they handled the hurricane Katrina situation. Or consider how poorly they handled the storm aftermath in Puerto Rico. We all share some responsibility for allowing such a poor system. Can you imagine handing your healthcare over to these people? We can point fingers at political parties or individual politicians, and certainly they are responsible, but they didn't elect themselves, we voted for them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2020 21:21:35 GMT -5
I dont think playing the blame game is beneficial at this point. Maybe when life settles down again some of us will remember the actions of politicians, companies and others who reacted in a positive or negative way. These memories are what should come to mind when making choices in the future. There are various large corporations in the UK who have used the excuse of the crisis to fire loyal employees. If these companies survive the economic crash then i will definitely be trying to avoid using them again.
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Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 21:31:16 GMT -5
I don't think playing the blame game is beneficial at this point. Tell tRump that. He's actively, intentionally throwing around blame as much as possible and giving himself a 10/10.
The fish rots from the head. If he can't lead without playing the blame game, then it's going to be played, if for no other reason than to provide a counter-weight to his drivel.
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Post by myrrh on Mar 20, 2020 22:51:02 GMT -5
He also never called the virus a hoax. I mean. It's on video. Unless you want to be semantic and argue that the "hoax" he was referring to was the way the Democrats were portraying the virus as something to be concerned about. In which case he would be demonstrably wrong. So really, in no way can this be interpreted as anything but short sighed political dick-waving. I looked for a video without cuts, but wasn't able to find one through my IPA buzz.
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Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 23:19:08 GMT -5
The thing is that no one cared what the process was in 2008 or even the aftermath of it in 2009 and it was never criticized or determined inefficient until last month. People did care and warned tRump. It was tRump who didn't care. I never said that it was all about the testing, but that was what my post was specifically disputing “But we don't have enough tests because it was not taken seriously until recently and because the pandemic team had all been fired.” Correlation equals causation? The pandemic team hadn’t “all been fired” and the reduction to the pandemic team had nothing to do with the delay with the testing availability- people might be interested in knowing that part of the story. Correlation doesn't automatically equal causation, but it doesn't exclude causation either. I'll go halfsies with you on this one. I'll admit that the firing of pandemic people did not for sure result in the testing delays, if you agree that it did not for sure have "nothing to do with the delay." Maybe it would have made a difference, maybe not. We just don't know. And we never will, because they were fired.
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Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 23:35:45 GMT -5
I mean. It's on video. Unless you want to be semantic and argue that the "hoax" he was referring to was the way the Democrats were portraying the virus as something to be concerned about. In which case he would be demonstrably wrong. So really, in no way can this be interpreted as anything but short sighed political dick-waving. I looked for a video without cuts, but wasn't able to find one through my IPA buzz. No, He’s referring to how media and democrats politicized how he was handling it. I mean, he says it on the video: “How’s Trump doing? oh not good, not good.” He is saying that they’ve turned the virus into something political. I wouldn’t call it semantics, I see a pretty clear difference in saying that the virus itself is a hoax and saying that the media and democrats are negatively politicizing the way that he is handling it “is a hoax.“ The video matisse shared is titled “from hoax to pandemic,” suggesting he said that the virus itself is a hoax, which is not semantics it’s changing the intent completely. Yeah, tRump is saying the hoax is fear-mongering by the Dems. The media did get this wrong and FOX was quick to point it out. The funny thing is that some of tRump's own supporters did not make this distinction. They were calling the virus itself a hoax. www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/6/1925144/-Delusional-Trump-supporter-denies-coronavirus-exists
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Post by Manda2212 on Mar 20, 2020 23:46:51 GMT -5
No, He’s referring to how media and democrats politicized how he was handling it. I mean, he says it on the video: “How’s Trump doing? oh not good, not good.” He is saying that they’ve turned the virus into something political. I wouldn’t call it semantics, I see a pretty clear difference in saying that the virus itself is a hoax and saying that the media and democrats are negatively politicizing the way that he is handling it “is a hoax.“ The video matisse shared is titled “from hoax to pandemic,” suggesting he said that the virus itself is a hoax, which is not semantics it’s changing the intent completely. Yeah, tRump is saying the hoax is fear-mongering by the Dems. The media did get this wrong and FOX was quick to point it out. The funny thing is that some of tRump's own supporters did not make this distinction. They were calling the virus itself a hoax. www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/6/1925144/-Delusional-Trump-supporter-denies-coronavirus-existsLOL, so literally one woman saying something asinine means all Trump supporters misinterpreted Trump's statement about the Democrats using the virus as yet ANOTHER hoax to make him look bad? LOL again. Also, the dailykos.com had a strong left bias with mixed factual reporting so you may wanna check yourself before you spread misinformation and fake news. #thisistheleftsdailywire www.google.com/amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-kos/%3famp
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Post by someonerandom on Mar 20, 2020 23:50:29 GMT -5
Biggest hoax in that video is when he says Democrats support “open borders” lol. Love how he’s bragging about how awesome his immigration policies are at stopping coronavirus, with 0 deaths, and what we know now...
God his voice and face make me feel sick. I rarely watch him, prefer to just read the quotes. They sound just as idiotic when you read them verbatim as when he says them.
I see so much energy being spent in defending this indefensible human... just finding any small detail that can be used to prove an anti-Trump person wrong, even if their overall message is right. Just gotta find that one detail where Obama did it too, or whatever. It’s really pretty pathetic. Trump and his supporters are pitiful people. But I don’t pity them.
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Post by matisse on Mar 20, 2020 23:59:33 GMT -5
so literally one woman saying something asinine means all Trump supporters misinterpreted Trump's statement about the Democrats using the virus as yet ANOTHER hoax to make him look bad? I said "some" not "all." That was intentional. It's just one example but it's not unreasonable to extrapolate from one to "some" with his followers. A large portion of them are quite a homogeneous bunch.
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Post by matisse on Mar 21, 2020 0:06:10 GMT -5
Also, the dailykos.com had a strong left bias with mixed factual reporting so you may wanna check yourself before you spread misinformation and fake news. I actually saw the underlying interview myself. I need to start recording these little tidbits myself because they are hard to track down after the fact.
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Post by wonk on Mar 21, 2020 0:33:03 GMT -5
Do you guys want to start a trump v anti trump thread and discuss it there?
The politics thread on WC got shut down with all the trump BS
Covid-19 effects the rest of the world as well
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Post by devogirl on Mar 21, 2020 0:59:53 GMT -5
Do you guys want to start a trump v anti trump thread and discuss it there? Oh god no please don't The politics thread on WC got shut down with all the trump BS
exactly
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